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On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW, enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive 
Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads.
It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it.
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On October 17 2010 08:55 Obscure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:46 hugman wrote:On October 17 2010 08:41 Grettin wrote:On October 17 2010 08:39 Sad Hermit wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 hugman wrote:
Competitive WoW lol, such a joke
I get why e-sports isn't taken seriously i agree.. mlg having WoW and not CS or CSS Someone needs to get smacked. It would be retarded to take cs or css. If you want a pc fps, it should be Quake live/3. As a very long time CS player I don't think any other games even come close to the skill requirements of macro focused RTSes like BW and SC2. The skill and consistency ceiling is just sooo much higher. QuakeLive skill ceiling is higher than CS and while the skill sets needed to succeed in FPS and RTS games are nearly completely different, I'd argue Quake's skill ceiling, relatively speaking, is just as high as BW and SC2.
The only game that can compare skill ceiling with BW is Quake World NOT quake live or any other game what so ever....
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On October 17 2010 09:06 EleanorRIgby wrote:
well can they fucking practice on MLG servers 24/7??
How do you go through life not choking on your food? It's amazing.
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On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:36 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
what? idra doesn't whine, and the points he has a problem with in ZvT were not addressed by the patches whatsoever doublereaper-nerf? even depot before rax? now idra's macro style can unfold EVERY single time? how can you counter idra's muta ee han timing? i'll say it again because apparently you didnt read it the first time: the changes in 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 did not address IdrA's concerns in ZvT whatsoever. are you even aware what his issue is? it's sure as fuck not reapers. He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already?
Well, scouting is important for every race, but not that important for P as for Z since Z is much more of a reactionary race than P is. The newest patch has sort of evened the playing field somewhat though since Z can have some safe alround builds also.
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Idra the expected winner.
Select the real winner.
Huk the no-show.
Idra was expected to win, and did so deservedly. Select became the "real" tournament winner with his mad marathon run through the lower brackets. Can only give praise for that! Huk was a disappointment imo. Yea, he pulled a funny, but when things really mattered he didn't put up a fight. He kind of gave up against Idra in game 2. And he definitely gave up against Select in game 2 with the mothership, which people will think was amazing; to me it was a no-show.
Sour grapes and all, I know. It's just that I expect top notch performances in a tournament like this. Keep the funnies to other forums, not the lower bracket final game. "Crowd pleaser" is just a cover for not putting up a real fight.
Huk got the hard evidence of being a good player (Raleigh). I hope he doesn't continue to joke that credibility away.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:36 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
what? idra doesn't whine, and the points he has a problem with in ZvT were not addressed by the patches whatsoever doublereaper-nerf? even depot before rax? now idra's macro style can unfold EVERY single time? how can you counter idra's muta ee han timing? i'll say it again because apparently you didnt read it the first time: the changes in 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 did not address IdrA's concerns in ZvT whatsoever. are you even aware what his issue is? it's sure as fuck not reapers. He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already?
that doesn't make any sense. why bother comparing the resource cost of overlord speed versus an observer when default gateway units are far better equipped to handle strange 8-minute all-ins? protoss don't complain because the danger is much smaller.
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The crowd began game 2 by chanting "MOTHERSHIP" "MOTHERSHIP!" Huk writes ingame: "I think they're asking for mothership" Select writes: "lol"
2 minutes pass
Huk: "I can't make one though, because if i do crowd will cheer and you'll know ones coming"
couple minutes pass, Huk lays down starport.
Huk lays down fleet beacon, crowd go wild.
Day9: Hmm huk still isn't doing anything with his startport... "checks nexus" oh god, he's making a mothership.
complete silence as the crowd gasps while mothership is nearing completing as Select is pushing with his bio ball.
HUGE cheer as mothership comes out onto the battlefield
Huk: "thats halo, don't worry"
Instant classic.
2 minutes later Huk vortexes his own units and everyone bursts out laughing.
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replays not working for anyone else? im getting an invalid url
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On October 17 2010 09:06 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW, enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads. It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it.
Ugh, i know it isnt. I was just proving how big of a joke it was. Same as warlock/mage/druid or whatever, just complete jokes. The commentators would laugh when people just went 100%-0 in 2secs. I've watched it a few times, back when i played WoW, but i stopped because i realized how stupid it was.
I played Paladin at around 2.5k, and all i'd do was HS/FL/FL/FL/FL/HS/FL/FL - the whole game, with a few random hammers and judgements thrown in, really competitive challenging stuff right there. It was sorta fun, although the best thing about WoW is the PvE.
Anyways, done with the WoW talk, this is a Starcraft forum after all
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On October 17 2010 09:06 SayTT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:55 Obscure wrote:On October 17 2010 08:46 hugman wrote:On October 17 2010 08:41 Grettin wrote:On October 17 2010 08:39 Sad Hermit wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 hugman wrote:
Competitive WoW lol, such a joke
I get why e-sports isn't taken seriously i agree.. mlg having WoW and not CS or CSS Someone needs to get smacked. It would be retarded to take cs or css. If you want a pc fps, it should be Quake live/3. As a very long time CS player I don't think any other games even come close to the skill requirements of macro focused RTSes like BW and SC2. The skill and consistency ceiling is just sooo much higher. QuakeLive skill ceiling is higher than CS and while the skill sets needed to succeed in FPS and RTS games are nearly completely different, I'd argue Quake's skill ceiling, relatively speaking, is just as high as BW and SC2. The only game that can compare skill ceiling with BW is Quake World NOT quake live or any other game what so ever....
Ah, QuakeWorld. We love you too.
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CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all
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On October 17 2010 09:08 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:36 Xax wrote:
[quote]
doublereaper-nerf? even depot before rax?
now idra's macro style can unfold EVERY single time?
how can you counter idra's muta ee han timing? i'll say it again because apparently you didnt read it the first time: the changes in 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 did not address IdrA's concerns in ZvT whatsoever. are you even aware what his issue is? it's sure as fuck not reapers. He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already? that doesn't make any sense. why bother comparing the resource cost of overlord speed versus an observer when default gateway units are far better equipped to handle strange 8-minute all-ins? protoss don't complain because the danger is much smaller.
didn't select just win against like 3 top protosses (tyler, kiwikaki, huk) around the 8 minute mark? and weren't there like 200 posts here stating that they wouldn't know how to stop this even in theorycraft?
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On October 17 2010 09:06 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW, enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads. It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it.
This is getting massively offtopic, but no.
Every single time an RMP has beat a beastcleave, it was because someone on the beastcleave made a major mistake. Back when I played (which was when it was vaguely new), there was literally nothing RMP could do to beat it unless the other team fucked up or didn't crit once (or something similarly stupid).
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On October 17 2010 09:10 tieya wrote:
replays not working for anyone else? im getting an invalid url
It takes them a while to upload. They'll all be there eventually. This morning first thing I downloaded every game from yesterday I wanted etc.
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I was on an elevator with HuK. :o
Speaking of which, I wish he had Mothership rushed IdrA instead of seleCT.
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On October 17 2010 08:58 Turing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:57 EleanorRIgby wrote:On October 17 2010 08:56 kojinshugi wrote:On October 17 2010 08:55 EleanorRIgby wrote:
all the gear you need for top arena in a week including gems and all that shit
stop spewing bullshit
They don't play tournaments with their live characters... how do they get good practice then? The time spent to get to high diamond or on a pro team where you can actually get good practice in sc2 is easily comparable to the time it takes to gear up to practice top-level WoW arena.
the difference is sc2 players are actually practicing what there gonna be using in the future
pressing 1-3 buttons against ai for 80 levels is not the same
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Even though IdrA won, very convincingly.
We need to remember that SeleCT won all the way from first game of the losers bracket.
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On October 17 2010 08:48 Sad Hermit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:42 happyness wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 hugman wrote:
Competitive WoW lol, such a joke
I get why e-sports isn't taken seriously That's what Halo fans say about all PC games. Really it's attitudes like yours that are holding e-sports back thats dumb, WoW is not and should not be regarded as an E-sport not until there's a real skill basis for a game like that but its an mmoRPG so thats not going to happen MLG and other leagues that have WoW as a league game are just trying to make money off a game thats extremely popular and thats not right.
Why is that not right? I don't care for WoW either but i really want MLG etc. do get every money they deserve because this will not only support eSport as a whole but also non-korean sc2 ... remember that.
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On October 17 2010 09:10 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:06 kojinshugi wrote:On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW, enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads. It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it. Ugh, i know it isnt. I was just proving how big of a joke it was. Same as warlock/mage/druid or whatever, just complete jokes. The commentators would laugh when people just went 100%-0 in 2secs. I've watched it a few times, back when i played WoW, but i stopped because i realized how stupid it was.
Clearly you haven't followed the same for enough time, you didnt saw some epic games I saw where people weren't supposed to win and did it anyway. I will never forget when I saw live OrangeMarmelade take that 1v2 with no health and no mana when his team was one game away from losing the final.
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On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all
Yeah I've been pretty much a spectator since late 2006, I did buy bw shortly after that, but never got much enjoyment from getting my ass kicked. Playing SC2 though, I enjoy it :D... was doing well until my gaming computer broke about a month ago.. need to get it fixed argh!~
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