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MLG DC Day 2 - Page 326

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Toxiferous
Profile Joined June 2009
United States388 Posts
October 17 2010 00:34 GMT
#6501
Can someone point me to the vods? Specifically the finals if possible, or any Idra games
Shatter
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1401 Posts
October 17 2010 00:34 GMT
#6502
On October 17 2010 09:31 setzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:
On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all


CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.


BW and Korea is the reason most of us are here, SC2 is an extension of that. CS and CPL has nothing to do with the development of RTS games as an esport.
CS was the first esport I ever was into and I probably would've never been interested in esports without it. Generally if people are a fan of one esport, they get into others, so other communities do help each other.
thesighter
Profile Joined July 2010
United States347 Posts
October 17 2010 00:37 GMT
#6503
On October 17 2010 09:26 Fake)Plants wrote:
Huk vs Select game 2:

Might not have been the greatest showcase of amazing strategy, but damn, it sure does speak volumes about SC2 as a spectator sport.

Next up, GSL. Do you guys think Idra will take a lot of momentum in?


idra's likely order of opponents in first 4 rounds: chickencombo, gon, mvp, maka. All terran.
I think he's going down in round of 16 against mvp. Don't really see him getting past mvp or maka.
SweetNJoshSauce
Profile Joined July 2010
United States468 Posts
October 17 2010 00:38 GMT
#6504
Missed Huk v Idra. Anyone know when the replays will be up?
bigjenk
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1543 Posts
October 17 2010 00:38 GMT
#6505
On October 17 2010 09:15 Roggay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 09:10 Deadlyfish wrote:
On October 17 2010 09:06 kojinshugi wrote:
On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:
I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW,

enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive


Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads.

It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it.



Ugh, i know it isnt. I was just proving how big of a joke it was. Same as warlock/mage/druid or whatever, just complete jokes. The commentators would laugh when people just went 100%-0 in 2secs. I've watched it a few times, back when i played WoW, but i stopped because i realized how stupid it was.


Clearly you haven't followed the same for enough time, you didnt saw some epic games I saw where people weren't supposed to win and did it anyway. I will never forget when I saw live OrangeMarmelade take that 1v2 with no health and no mana when his team was one game away from losing the final.


This and stuff like when col red switched to rmp to mirror bb in the finals and then played one of the most exciting series i have seen.
Ignore my opinions I am bad
Biochemist
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1008 Posts
October 17 2010 00:38 GMT
#6506
On October 17 2010 09:29 T0fuuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:
On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all


CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.

What? Stop making shit up. Its quake.


I dunno, I never knew anyone who played quake but almost every PC gamer I knew played CS. I was never really an avid follower of FPS esports, though. Quake (one) is certainly several years older than CS, so perhaps I just started playing games online too late.
Ganondorf
Profile Joined April 2010
Italy600 Posts
October 17 2010 00:39 GMT
#6507
Idra's concern makes sense, sc2 should not be a more complex rock-paper-scissor game but it should be based on skill favouring the better player and not the most lucky player, but of course Blizzard needs to adress it without breaking balance. Not an easy thing to do. Let's see how the next tournaments work out and what further corrections Blizzard will make, tvz early game is what i suggest we look at more closely.
Duravi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1205 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-17 00:47:30
October 17 2010 00:46 GMT
#6508
SC2 works great as an esport (and SC for the same reason) because it is like listening to someone play piano. We don't need to to follow the individual players every move and action to be entertained with the end result. In FPS games (and WoW) we only follow one player at a time so we never get the big picture, it is like listening to someone play piano but only being able to hear notes from one finger at a time (in my opinion of course people are free to disagree and watch whatever they want).
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-17 00:58:56
October 17 2010 00:50 GMT
#6509
Honestly, every e-sport except for BW and SC2 kinda suck as spectator sports.

FPS have too many player doing different things, so it becomes impossible for observers to follow in a way that provides meaningful context--you're just watching a highlight reel of killshots and a bunch of numbers in one corner of the screen. WoW arena also suffers from the "too many players" issue.

Fighting games require an incredibly in-depth understanding of stuff that isn't obvious to the viewer (e.g. framerates), and they're too fast paced for announcers to provide context in game. So if you've played them on a high level they can be fun, but if not they're boring as hell.

Other RTS games are either too one-dimensional (DoW, SupCom), or involve a lot of time spent on important stuff that, too the uneducated observer or casual player, looks like nothing (e.g. killing creeps in WC3).

Now, I'm not saying all these games aren't legitimately competitive, because they clearly are. They can also be fun if you yourself play them at a high enough level to grasp them in an in-depth way.

But BW or SC2 are the only games that are actually fun to spectate even if you've never played the game in your life. This is for a number of reasons. Its 1v1, and the top-down view inherently gives far more perspective on the match as a whole than you get in a fps. They are action-packed throughout (much moreso than WC3, which can easily lapse into "one big battle" syndrome), but aren't so fast paced that the commentators can't explain whats happening and why. They featured varied play, so that each match can feel different, but they aren't so full of units, spells, classes or characters that uneducated spectators can't keep up.

I played a lot of WoW, and am better at it than I am at SC2. I also used to play a ton of CS. I don't enjoy watching either of them half as much as SC2 or BW. Hell, a great SC2 or BW match can be more fun to watch than playing itself is.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
October 17 2010 00:50 GMT
#6510
Wow, the sc2ranks page about select is impressive.
http://sc2ranks.com/us/789884/SeleCT
He's the only one with more than 600 games AND a winrate > 70%.
Sm0othAsBen
Profile Joined October 2010
United States14 Posts
October 17 2010 00:52 GMT
#6511
[image loading]
This looks pretty good, but I can't read.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-17 00:55:32
October 17 2010 00:55 GMT
#6512
On October 17 2010 09:34 Toxiferous wrote:
Can someone point me to the vods? Specifically the finals if possible, or any Idra games


by tomorrow, the replays of the games will be available for download from the "match info" button in the tournament bracket:

http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/procircuit/10/dc/sc2/open/losers
http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/procircuit/10/dc/sc2/open/winners



i think the later stages of the tournament have really shown quite a leap forward for sc2 in terms of level of play and in terms of balance. all races seem to be on somewhat decent groundings now. zerg can win against terran and protoss, but these can also win against zerg. pvt is the most stable matchup of all so far, and plz never forget how perfect selects micro and macro were in all those games. anybody without these perfect mechanics would get completely wrecked while attempting to pull off the same crazy aggression as select.

the matchup im most worried about at the moment is tvz. we terran players need to find an answer to zerg fast expand.... i mean, something like a proxied 3rax should work, but in the long run we are gonna need a more stable answer that is able to transition into a solid longer macro game if needed.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
October 17 2010 00:56 GMT
#6513
On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all


CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.


Dude, I followed competitive CS since beta 6, I know all about it and it's still (comparatively) a fucking terrible game to spectate and there's way too much randomness in the game, on many levels. Lots of games are decided by one player being on fire that match, not because the team executed what they practiced really well. Pug teams can win games against 'well prepared' teams at big events. The practice regiments of CS players are a joke compared to (western) SC players.

Sure you need lots of practice to be good at CS but it comes down to intangible things, peeking a corner at the right time, getting deagle oneshots, stacking bombsites. The distinction between the best is not practice, but in SC it is. If you're good you will consistently win, and you can always get better.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
October 17 2010 00:58 GMT
#6514

the matchup im most worried about at the moment is tvz. we terran players need to find an answer to zerg fast expand.... i mean, something like a proxied 3rax should work, but in the long run we are gonna need a more stable answer that is able to transition into a solid longer macro game if needed.


Honestly, because T harassment has been so brutally effective until now, I don't think their macro play is as developed as the other races. Terrans have sort of taken it as a given that the way they should play is constant harassment, and so we haven't seen many who focus heavily on macro play.

SeleCT is a good example actually. Sick micro, amazing drops, good harassment...but if those don't work, he gets rolled by a macro machine like IdrA. Now, that may partially be racial, but I think for sure Terran could play better macro games than they have so far.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
October 17 2010 00:58 GMT
#6515
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 17 2010 09:52 Sm0othAsBen wrote:
[image loading]



Hahaha, omg this was my favorite part of the whole event. The Halo fans were pretty loud though lol
One does not simply walk into mordor
Xax
Profile Joined December 2003
475 Posts
October 17 2010 01:00 GMT
#6516
What makes it much more watchable as a sport are the emotions and the stuff happening alongside the actual matches in my opinion.

It's just so much more interesting if I can see who is playing, what he looks like, what he says after the match, before the match.

I almost entirely stopped watching online tournaments for that exact reason, watching the GSL or this MLG was so much better than for example IEM NYC which felt like an online cast. How great is it to watch the GSL and having somebody do a signature winning pose after winning an intense game in a team uniform?

Imagine the day9 daily with just a starcraft 2 screen and day 9 talking about it, it just wouldn't be the same.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2570 Posts
October 17 2010 01:01 GMT
#6517
I think its funny when people were talking mad crap on select in that mini-podcast before the tournament and they proceed to all get beat by him. Just my 2 cents.
vyyye
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden3917 Posts
October 17 2010 01:01 GMT
#6518
On October 17 2010 10:00 Xax wrote:
Imagine the day9 daily with just a starcraft 2 screen and day 9 talking about it, it just wouldn't be the same.

I'd be fine with it, Day9 has so much personality in his voice anyway.
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
October 17 2010 01:02 GMT
#6519
On October 17 2010 09:03 Turing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2010 09:00 enTee wrote:
On October 17 2010 09:00 Omer wrote:
On October 17 2010 08:58 enTee wrote:
what was huks famous oneliner? looks like i missed it


"Don't worry, it's Halo"

Looks like sitiational homour..can any1 explain pls?



The crowd was chanting for a mothership. Huk made one, and the crowd went wild, obviously alerting his opponent that something was up. Huk typed in the chat, "Don't worry, thats halo" as a joke indicating that everyone was cheering for halo, and not because he just made a mothership.


Actually, on the big screen they were just showing feed from the cameras on the players themselves instead of the actual game. The game and commentary had been going on for 5 minutes and NOONE could see the game, so people started chanting: "Start the game! Start the game!" but HuK thought that we were saying "Mothership" and proceeded to mothership rush, that's why it was so hilarious lol.
One does not simply walk into mordor
Obscure
Profile Joined July 2008
United States272 Posts
October 17 2010 01:04 GMT
#6520
On October 17 2010 09:50 awesomoecalypse wrote:
FPS have too many player doing different things, so it becomes impossible for observers to follow in a way that provides meaningful context--you're just watching a highlight reel of killshots and a bunch of numbers in one corner of the screen. WoW arena also suffers from the "too many players" issue.

Not all FPS games are team based. 1v1 shooters are easy to watch and follow, and on top of that very exciting (even if you don't know much about the game).
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge" - Daniel J. Boorstin
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