On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but your hyperbole's are just annoying. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
On July 21 2010 03:10 HeyZeus wrote: nihlon:
Idra went for a doom drop + mutas in the HDH Invitational game vs. Nony on Metalopolis (game 3 I think?)
Yeah you are correct. I know I've seen more games but I can't remember against who right now. I'll see if I do after I've gotten some sleep.
Idra expected a 7 (or 8?) warp gate all-in push. Hydras were the correct choice for that. Tester did a sneaky tech switch to collosus and sentry collosus = instawin on zerg ground. People are over analyzing this game imo... idra acted without constant scouting at that cost him the game.
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but you hyperbole's are just irritating. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
Come on, man. Ask anybody. What is Idra known for? 16 hatch.
When Tester began to produce Collossi, I was like "oh no, he'll forcefield the hydras and just shoot 'em up because IdrA will try to attack anyway", and that's exactly what happened. I remember WhiteRa doing the same do IdrA in the HDH finals. Why, IdrA? If you're gonna do the same strategy almost every game, how can it be there still isn't an answer to collossi in that strategy?
But this tourney leading up to the sc2 launch is really neat, it makes the wait almost fun. The TLO games were once again the highlights so far. Keep it up!
On July 21 2010 03:22 eNyoron wrote: Idra expected a 7 (or 8?) warp gate all-in push. Hydras were the correct choice for that. Tester did a sneaky tech switch to collosus and sentry collosus = instawin on zerg ground. People are over analyzing this game imo... idra acted without constant scouting at that cost him the game.
he played fine till he had his 3rd base running. after that he did nothing at all with his huge lead except waiting for it to pass away and his hydra only army get hardcoutnered on a small map.
if he attacked earlier, dropped or did anything he wouldve easily won. imho game 2 he totally threw away for no reason. game 1 i totally understand that you dont have a perfect plan for such a situation and know better after the game. but game 2 went perfect for him but he apparently had no plan past the "get 3rd base!" stage.
also am i the only one thats underwhelmed by whitera atm? imho he mostly played bad vs tlo, bad in the esl games vs strelok yesterday and far from impressive in those games here. many small mistakes in addition to pretty one dimensional play (void-ra).
really liked tester ,tlo and itrainbow. solid smart and in testers/tlos case very creative play. just what you want to see
On July 21 2010 03:22 eNyoron wrote: Idra expected a 7 (or 8?) warp gate all-in push. Hydras were the correct choice for that. Tester did a sneaky tech switch to collosus and sentry collosus = instawin on zerg ground. People are over analyzing this game imo... idra acted without constant scouting at that cost him the game.
he played fine till he had his 3rd base running. after that he did nothing at all with his huge lead except waiting for it to pass away and his hydra only army get hardcoutnered on a small map.
if he attacked earlier, dropped or did anything he wouldve easily won. imho game 2 he totally threw away for no reason. game 1 i totally understand that you dont have a perfect plan for such a situation and know better after the game. but game 2 went perfect for him but he apparently had no plan past the "get 3rd base!" stage.
also am i the only one thats underwhelmed by whitera atm? imho he mostly played bad vs tlo, bad in the esl games vs strelok yesterday and far from impressive in those games here. many small mistakes in addition to pretty one dimensional play (void-ra).
really liked tester ,tlo and itrainbow. solid smart and in testers/tlos case very creative play. just what you want to see
If he had no plan why did he get the melee upgrade late in the game? Just for his few lings?
It would be awesome if there were interviews with the players after the game.
Maybe that one phoenix from Tester threw IdrA off? Maybe he was expecting a faster, but weaker 2-base collosus push, which he might have been best off just barreling down with hydras? Maybe he just choked? He had a similar lapse against White-Ra in the HDH.
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but you hyperbole's are just irritating. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
Come on, man. Ask anybody. What is Idra known for? 16 hatch.
I am just a mid diamond zerg, but tbh, it was pretty obvious he would tech to colussi that second game. You have to give Tester more credit and KNOW he won't go in without higher tech units.
If you are such a macro beast as Idra, why not make that spire already just in case? He had so many resources at hand he could have made anything. And why not get infesters earlier, because even if he expected a warp gate all in, those infesters would do pretty good right (blink stalkers)? And why not tech to Hive earlier? I am such a fan of Idra's macro, but why can't he show us that he actually can adapt?
In game 1, why did he go for that hatch in-base? Why not wait it out or go for roaches? Roaches do ok vs buildings. He knew Tester didn't expand, so Idra could totally get away with expanding later. The zergling attack later was a little bit strange.
It can be just me, but I think you can definitely see that the players are very high skilled, but the games are a little bit bland and boring. I had expected so much more from these players. (edit: just to clarify, I wasn'tjust talking about Tester and Idra, but all the players. I think TLO is much more exciting to watch with Zerg than Terran.)
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but you hyperbole's are just irritating. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
Come on, man. Ask anybody. What is Idra known for? 16 hatch.
So? That was not my point.
Then we agree. He does the exact same opening ALMOST every single game (he's uncommonly regular in this respect), and he virtually never does any drops or nydus worms.
On July 21 2010 02:35 JayDee_ wrote: Why don't SC2 players utilize drops the way Korean BW players do? Even at the higher levels, I see so many players leaving relatively defenseless mains or expansions unpunished by easy drops.
For instance, in tester vs idra game 2, tester had little to no D in his main. If idra had done a couple drops or a nydus worm, he would have done significant damage.
Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but you hyperbole's are just irritating. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
Come on, man. Ask anybody. What is Idra known for? 16 hatch.
So? That was not my point.
Then we agree. He does the exact same opening ALMOST every single game (he's uncommonly regular in this respect), and he virtually never does any drops or nydus worms.
I have already stated that he likes his build and stick to it a lot. I don't agree that his playing style is bizarre which was the first thing I reacted to. (A strategy that generally are a pretty good one). And he does drops and other tactics which I have stated, more than "virtually never". I'll just leave it at that. Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same.
On July 21 2010 02:46 kajeus wrote: [quote] Noo, tons of people do drops. Watch more White-Ra games on sc2win.com. Or watch any Maka game.
Idra is not representative of sc2 players. He's just a single scrub with a bizarre play-style. Idra never does drops -- he just macros a ball and loses.
If you want to argue a point at least get your facts straight. I've seen several matches were Idra has done drops. And I fail to see how a heavy macro style is bizarre.
Could you link those games please? I don't remember Idra doing any drops ever. I'd be convinced by even just 2 replays.
His style is bizarre because he does the exact same thing every single tournament game. (FE into hydra/roach).
I'll see if I can find them. I'm sure at least one of them can be seen one youtube. (I'm not saying he does it often)
And I still fail to see how his play style is bizarre when heavy macro, FE with roach/hydra combo is a very common strat. Maybe he's playing a bit to static at times, but so does a lot of players and still manages to win.
Can you name another prominent player who does literally the same thing... every single game?
Tester was even making fun of that this series, first with the pylons at Idra's ramp blocking the FE, and second with the pylon at Idra's natural blocking the FE hatch.
But that was my point. He doesn't always do the exact same thing in every single game. Sure, he likes his build and stick to it often, but you hyperbole's are just irritating. And Tester wasn't "making fun" of him. That is a common harass against zerg players.
Come on, man. Ask anybody. What is Idra known for? 16 hatch.
So? That was not my point.
Then we agree. He does the exact same opening ALMOST every single game (he's uncommonly regular in this respect), and he virtually never does any drops or nydus worms.
I have already stated that he likes his build and stick to it a lot. I don't agree that his playing style is bizarre which was the first thing I reacted to. (A strategy that generally are a pretty good one). And he does drops and other tactics which I have stated, more than "virtually never". I'll just leave it at that. Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same.
haha, gg. This is as close as anybody gets to winning a thread on the internet.
Imo, nothing short of what was expected in the first 4 matches... all 4 winners were extremely solid and basically "played it safe/standard to their style"
On July 21 2010 00:29 DC Elite wrote: There are some good games, but these invitationals for beta 'king' are so stupid since people like Masq has been beating the crap out of all these players lately but didnt get an invite to be 'king'.
And you are basing this off some wins masq sent to casters lol. His win % was like 60% so he obviously lost to most good players on ladder.
EPT
