Slush vs Artosis - Page 19

On May 09 2010 22:01 Smikis wrote:
how could you say that slush had no chance to recover.. thats pure nonsense.. slush had 3800 minerals, compared to 800 from artosis, both of them had just about 1 -2 base mining, cuz mutas killed of all workers artosis had, just before crash, artosis hydras were on attack, but im 90% sure they would lost to mutas + roaches ( if they won, and then crashed.. yes game is over.. but if mutas won , slush not only could recovered , he could easily won.. )


i dont see how there was 99% chance of no comeback..

all this topic suggest is whine and flame a lot.. and you will accomplish this..

On May 09 2010 20:47 UbiNax wrote:


are you serious.....?

There were no way slush could win that won what so ever. and even though slush at the time " before watching the replay " thought " he still had a chance he should have looked over the replay in the break and admitt defeat instead of being all like " oh im gonna be 100% passive now and let the judges call because then i might have a chance of a regame *.* "

TL didnt do any backpedaling because Artosis is a " famous " community member they did it because they knew that they have made a mistake, they made the wrong call at the given time.

That being said, people shouldnt rage on Teamliquid for their decision, shit happens when the wheels are rolling and you need to keep them spinning, they did an awesome job with the tournament besides that 1 call.
" now they know that they need to look at it differently next time, "

TL <3

On May 09 2010 12:41 EvilTeletubby wrote:


Reinforcing what Raelcun just said to be true.

I was the ref in this game. To be up front, I'm absolutely not the most well versed player on SC2 game flow. While I can confidently say I'd be able to make an accurate judgement call in BW 99+% of the time, I'm definitely not that confident that I could make a similar call in SC2. So why would they allow me to ref a game if that's the case? To be honest, we were simply very short on available staff members and I had nothing going on today. I didn't even think I was going to be needed, but I was sitting in the channel at 2pm, they realized they needed another person, and I raised my hand to keep the tournament moving.

So, fast forward to the end of the first game #3. The drop screen pops up and counts down, both Slush and myself even left it up for another full minute or two just incase, but ultimately, yeah, Artosis had dropped. While the drop screen was up, I surveyed the situation asap - Artosis was up about 35 supply (both were still over 100), up a couple bases (although some weren't online with workers just yet), and had a better upgraded army. Slush still had standing units, and had 3k minerals in the bank. No one anywhere could dispute Artosis was ahead, but was it enough to award Artosis the win, and deny Slush his chance to comeback? I didn't know.

Second opinions were necessary, and several staff and veteran members quickly surveyed the situation and reviewed the replay. Keep in mind we had the pressure of a live cast going on with nothing casting at the moment; Not an excuse but a reality. From the people there at the time, no one felt 100% confident that it was IMPOSSIBLE for Slush to come back. Incredibly unlikely, but we were not absolutely certain. Given the information we had right then, in the middle of a live cast, we made what we thought was the best, most fair option at the time. Something I will gladly defend and justify, even if it ultimately turned out to be incorrect.

Keep in mind our #1 concern is to maintain fairness as much as possible for all players involved. In a situation like this, NO MATTER WHAT DECISION WE MAKE, someone will be unhappy(Go see the MSL finals if you don't know what I'm talking about). It's a bad situation for everyone to be in. Immediately after the game, Slush felt as if he still had a chance, even if a small one, to win. We had to examine that chance and at the time we felt that Artosis's advantage wasn't overwhelming enough to deny Slush that chance. A re-game was the fairest option.

As some of you saw in the chat logs and game chat, Artosis was definitely not happy with the decision, and reacted less than professionally, something that belies his ability and true character. For what it's worth, Artosis has already apologized to me personally for the way he acted after we informed him of the decision. Did he react excessively? Yes, most definitely. Do I blame him? No, not at all. I thought he had every right to be upset given the circumstances.

The only thing we can do now is learn from the experience and move forward. Better preperation could have definitely helped. Having more experts readily available to weigh in would have helped. Having more time to review the game and explore all possible scenarios could have helped. But we didn't have those this time around. We will next time, we owe that much to our players and to our spectators.

You guys are the best, and I appreciate the understanding and level-headedness that most people have shown during this.

On May 09 2010 22:00 Ghardo wrote:
Rules are only as good as the people carrying them out. In this case an "expert" admin decision would have been necessary, but as has been stated by Naz there was no one available at that time. So the admins in charge carried out the rules as they saw fit and made a mistake (not from their point of view). It has now been identified that the merit of the rule (which I think is a good rule) to give someone the win should he disc after his opponent should already have typed "GG" is highly dependent on the game sense of the admin judging the situation. And that's what Naz said would be secured for such future TL events - that there is always a top player / expert like Naz, Chill, Day[9], Drone who may appropriately judge what's the best decision.

On May 09 2010 22:21 KwarK wrote:

Naz incorrectly describes the situation. This probably isn't deliberate because he simply wasn't there but to characterise the ref team as ignorant of the situation because they're not good enough at sc2 to understand it is wrong. Several refs, myself included, are good at sc2. The subject was hotly debated by refs and the opinion of every ref who had seen the replay was taken into account (for the record my vote was that Artosis should be awarded the win). There was no misunderstanding about what happens with 3-2 hydralisks take on 1-0 mutalisks, I was very clear about that in the IRC channel.
The conclusion that was the rules were clear and that a disconnect while ahead was a regame. If Slush felt the game was over then he could concede but he said he felt he still had a chance and it wasn't the place of the referees to deny him that chance.

This apology by Naz makes very little sense to me because I made damn sure that everyone in the ref IRC knew that in my (good at sc2) opinion the game was over. Other players like Demuslim and Nony saying the same thing aren't adding anything refs didn't know at the time. If the criteria used to judge whether it's a regame or not have changed because of last night then just say that, saying they made a mistake when they didn't is wrong.

On May 09 2010 18:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I have one question on the justification for the regame:

Artosis' advantage was clear-cut. 100% vs. 99% aside, Artosis definitely had some sort of significant advantage. The regame call was based on the staff being unwilling to cheat Slush out of a potential fighting chance. However, why was the reverse not considered - by not cheating Slush out of a "potential regame," why was there no concern for cheating Artosis out of the advantage he built up through a well played game? It doesn't matter if Slush had a fighting chance or not, the fact of the matter is, by doing a regame, you will be cheating the advantaged player out of his advantage.

On May 09 2010 22:56 Doso wrote:
"admins are the rules". I don't see why the TL-admins should say sorry for anything, it is their tournament, it was their decision. Although i do like Artosis, in this case however i think he should just stop whining, gg, and get on with it. Stop the bitching, bitches.

On May 09 2010 19:19 BroOd wrote:

How is that different exactly? In Ireland vs France World Cup qualifiers, Thierry Henry handballed a goal that put France in the World Cup and left Ireland out. Should he have reported himself to the referee?