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On May 09 2010 21:13 vvvVec wrote:
Just popping in to say that Artosis makes it very hard for himself for new people like me to the scene to like him. In the match vs Day9 where he lost on Steppes of War he whines like an idiot in the lobby before the next game, boldly stating that he would have won if he didnt get an error during the game.
Really? What is that for a thing to say. You lose and the QQ in the gamelobby that you would have won had XYZ occured. Its such a low thing to do, not only undermining your own character, but also the ability of ur opponent. Especially after being behind after a rush->expand by day9.
Day9 were in a rather huge lead, which is obvious to anyone who actually watched the game.
Artosis bitching about every single thing really makes it easy to look down on him. And justifiable so, in many cases.
I agree and I'm pretty sure had Day9 Dc'd, Artosis would've wanted a rematch =)
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Either way slush won 50% of his matches against artosis, and it was Artosis who is responsible for his computer working. HuK might have won his matches if his computer could actually run SC2 decently, instead he can't micro at all in mid and late game battles. Is this fair? No, but it's his computer and his responsibility. I think personally the judges should avoid at all costs avoid awarding wins to players that DC in the lead. Having judges decide who wins is a really bad precedent, if you DC in the lead, regame, if you dc while losing, loss. Rewarding players who DC? can lead down a bad road.
Artosis should man up and take the showmatch, fix his computer and play in a series against Slush, he will get the opportunity to make money and recognition, the whole "personal" grudge is stupid. He criticized other organizers in the past for not allowing Idra for the same reasons.
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I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky".
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Welcome to the real world. Top players are humans and when speaking with other top players who they know well, they might even be honest instead of feigning being 100% perfect mannered like goddamn koreans. I'm glad the foreign scene has great players like nony, idra and artosis who aren't afraid to speak their mind on things involving other people & their own games.
Its funny how no matter what idra/artosis says its "speaking their mind" and not bad manner.
How is artosis whining like a bitch that he could have won that game under XYZ circumstances not a lame thing to do?
There is nothing valiant or brave about someone who constantly whines, even tho you are so quick to say that "oh, he is just speaking his mind".
How would you feel if we did a 1v1 and u fairly win, with me stating after the game that pfff ur victory was lucky, i could have won if only i did X.
Everyone has their bad beat story, except we dont need to whine 24/7 about them.
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On May 09 2010 21:21 bmml wrote:
I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky".
That's a huge cop out, you are always responsible for your actions, don't blame them on something else. Same people who say "I was drunk" and use it as an excuse, it's a willful choice and he should have been thankful to be invited in the first place.
The admins offered him recourse and he declined. There is nothing to pity here. Slush won the tournament it's over. He should also not get any blame.
Artosis refusing any offers from teamliquid of things to make it right such as a showmatch with money on the line already shows he just wants to complain and stir up trouble.
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United States44401 Posts
On May 09 2010 21:21 bmml wrote:
I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky".
Understandably cranky =/= rightfully cranky
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Can someone link to the thread where Artosis expressed his "disappointment" ?
I know that both parties have cooled down, and expressed their apologies and all is somewhat well and good again, but i'd like to read what actually happened.
Can't find the thread though :D
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On May 09 2010 21:13 vvvVec wrote:
Just popping in to say that Artosis makes it very hard for himself for new people like me to the scene to like him. In the match vs Day9 where he lost on Steppes of War he whines like an idiot in the lobby before the next game, boldly stating that he would have won if he didnt get an error during the game.
Really? What is that for a thing to say. You lose and the QQ in the gamelobby that you would have won had XYZ occured. Its such a low thing to do, not only undermining your own character, but also the ability of ur opponent. Especially after being behind after a rush->expand by day9.
Day9 were in a rather huge lead, which is obvious to anyone who actually watched the game.
Artosis bitching about every single thing really makes it easy to look down on him. And justifiable so, in many cases.
It's like morality has only the purpose to badmouth people...
Let him be. Have you never got angry?
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On May 09 2010 21:24 vvvVec wrote:Show nested quote +Welcome to the real world. Top players are humans and when speaking with other top players who they know well, they might even be honest instead of feigning being 100% perfect mannered like goddamn koreans. I'm glad the foreign scene has great players like nony, idra and artosis who aren't afraid to speak their mind on things involving other people & their own games. Its funny how no matter what idra/artosis says its "speaking their mind" and not bad manner. How is artosis whining like a bitch that he could have won that game under XYZ circumstances not a lame thing to do? There is nothing valiant or brave about someone who constantly whines, even tho you are so quick to say that "oh, he is just speaking his mind". How would you feel if we did a 1v1 and u fairly win, with me stating after the game that pfff ur victory was lucky, i could have won if only i did X. Everyone has their bad beat story, except we dont need to whine 24/7 about them.
I'm talking as a real person, not a robot who sees any transgression at all as "Bad Manner". If you don't act so ridiculously & fakely nice (you really think all the painfully "good manner" players mean everything they say?), you're "BM". Apparently, being "BM" is the ultimate sin. Instead of saying "I totally had that game, that's bullshit", you should be "Good Mannered" by saying "Damn man, I might've had that game if I didn't dc  XD " with maybe 15 more smiley faces, when in reality you're feeling the exact same way as the guy who said the former quote.
What's the difference? Who cares?
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On May 09 2010 21:21 bmml wrote:
I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky".
That is not a valid excue imho, if he couldn't play well because of his local time, he should have declined the invitation. It's not like he was forced to play.
On topic, i was originally for a regame and honnestly, a regame or not won't change that tl admins have done a very good-hard work for many years and some replies in thoses topics are very disrespectful towards them.
You, tl admins, took a position, and i'am noone (especially cause i did not watch this game) to judge if it's the right or not, and will be more prepared in the future if a situation like this happen again, that's the important things. All the BM gravitating aroud this case is just ridiculous, and people tend to overeact a lot.
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On May 09 2010 21:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 21:21 bmml wrote:
I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky". Understandably cranky =/= rightfully cranky
![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/2utpzrs.jpg)
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Listen, i'm not out to get Artosis and im not saying im the citadel of perfection when it comes to manners.
The point i'm trying to make is that everyone has their unlucky streaks, their bad beats. Everyone faces shit. Some of us constantly whines about it. Some of us dont.
I think its unbelivable tactless to say that i would have won (if only X) after a game is complete. All that he accomplishes with that statement is to make day9 feel less good about his victory and simultaneously implying that day9 didnt play well (enough).
If he would have won, then win. Dont whine after the game(s).
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I'm talking as a real person, not a robot who sees any transgression at all as "Bad Manner". If you don't act so ridiculously & fakely nice (you really think all the painfully "good manner" players mean everything they say?), you're "BM". Apparently, being "BM" is the ultimate sin. Instead of saying "I totally had that game, that's bullshit", you should be "Good Mannered" by saying "Damn man, I might've had that game if I didn't dc XD " with maybe 15 more smiley faces, when in reality you're feeling the exact same way as the guy who said the former quote. What's the difference? Who cares?
Talk is cheap. If he would have won, then win.
Like i've said so many times now, everyone has their would have won-games. There is nothing special or admirable about artosis whining when he experiences his.
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On May 09 2010 11:46 Dionyseus wrote:
The way I see it I agree that Artosis had the game won and the ref made a bad call. Some people are saying Slush is bm for not admitting the game was over but that's not his fault, it's the ref's job to make that decision and the ref failed here. Artosis eventually agreed to do a regame and Slush won it fair and square.
Well Im pretty sure if he had said: "Ok guys i admit i lost.. GG" the refs would have considered it in their decision.
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On May 09 2010 21:21 bmml wrote:
I dont think people are realising that artosis had to get up at like 2am for this tourney, he had every right to be "cranky".
He could just have not played that tourney if the time was that bad for him. It's not like he would have lost anything.
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Nice statement Nazghul, Don't even think you guys made a mistake even though Artosis was winning badly buuut , as 99/1 policy would apply to this situation, its not like slush only had a few buildings left, he had a income (ke was small but he had it ) and had a decent army, ofcourse I think it wouldnt be enough either buut if giving it 1% is not a bad call, anyway sad for artosis he deserved more ;() but hating on slush is a bit to much as well, seems a very good player nevertheless
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On May 09 2010 17:56 gngfn wrote:Indeed. Perhaps he ought to hold off on making comments like that until he has 2241 posts' worth of serious Starcraft discu ![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/vqptua.jpg)
WOW I have been laughing for about 15 minutes over this so far at that screenshot.
Seriously though, as much as I wanted to see cath v. artosis finals, I'm more happy to see the tournament rules properly enforced by refs who had to make a tough call. Disconnecting with an advantage earning you a rematch is a MUCH more generous policy (and personally desirable) than giving you an automatic loss for the DC. Frankly if I saw a tournament official disregard the rules of their own tournament, it would be the last time I watched anything hosted by them, this isn't the fucking WWF, and if they just wanted to stage some bullshit fixed matches then that's what it becomes.
Some of the people here really need to go back and make a distinction if they are upset because they think the rules aren't fair, if the rules aren't being enforced fairly, or if they' just didn't get what they wanted this time around.
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Shouldnt this thread be closed by now? People have been arguing the same thing for 10 pages, this will only led to more discussions, stupid ones as i see.
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Tadzio expressed the most relevant points on this matter. It would be highly unprofessional and defying all sense of rules if TL retroactively changed ANYTHING that has happened in this tournament. That is because in the situation Slush was in he didn't do anything wrong concerning the rules, he "abused" them by not speaking up, he was bad manner, yes, but based on the (poorly developed) admin decision he was still on the safe side.
Rules are only as good as the people carrying them out. In this case an "expert" admin decision would have been necessary, but as has been stated by Naz there was no one available at that time. So the admins in charge carried out the rules as they saw fit and made a mistake (not from their point of view). It has now been identified that the merit of the rule (which I think is a good rule) to give someone the win should he disc after his opponent should already have typed "GG" is highly dependent on the game sense of the admin judging the situation. And that's what Naz said would be secured for such future TL events - that there is always a top player / expert like Naz, Chill, Day[9], Drone who may appropriately judge what's the best decision.
In my eyes that's the only mistake one can learn from in this and the only adjustement one can make afterwards.
Artosis vs Cauthonluck showmatch would indeed be a good make up (if the handsomenerd agrees). I would even suggest a system of "If Artosis wins he gets 200$, if Cauthonluck wins he gets 75$ (Artosis lose: 50$, CL lose: Nothing)" because Artosis has clearly been robbed of his further advancement in the tournament which one can't say about Cauthonluck, so it would be kind of unfair to have him invited for a showmatch with money prize where he didn't need to fight his way up (on top of his 2nd place in the TLI).
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EPT
