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There's no reason to say poker players are more mature. Besides having money and caring more about money there is no indication that they are more mature than anyone else whatsoever. You could argue that having a lot of money at a young age does a lot of various things to young people, for some they include maturing, for others it's the opposite.
The realization that you need to make money in life is something even the most broke person can come to. People good at gaming switching to poker to make money so they can continue not to get education and stick with more gaming is the opposite of what most of the world would describe as maturing. And that's coming from someone who never finished his education. It's just an entirely useless debate to bring up at all.
Smuft has every right to make a claim based on facts in the past it says nothing about whether he would want to take up a match in the future. There is without a doubt a difference in motivation to practice for a match that is about $500. Idra would play his ass off and Smuft might not care enough to do the same. Realizing that you are at a motivational disadvantage for this amount of money and offering to play for more is perfectly fine.
No idea why everyone desperately try to pick a side in this. Idra offered something and Smuft decided not to do it and no one is at fault for that.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 06 2010 07:36 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 07:26 Fayth wrote:
meh not quite the case anymore maynard as most poker players playing starcraft 2 now were starcraft players too, and the same player who were playing starcraft that didn't play poker in here are playing starcraft 2 now
does it make sense
I think not 8D Not just age. I think there is a certain level of maturity when you are able to step back and realize that playing starcraft so seriously to the point that its unenjoyable its pointless. You will not be rewarded by being a "l33t gamer." You begin to realize that you need to make money or establish yourself career wise in order to obtain the things that you want in life. The poker players are gamers but they've realized this and started making money.
Couldn't disagree more.
Successful poker players are often times bigger social retards than any batch of successful sc players.
Additionally saying sc competition is "pointless" is particularly shortsighted and retarded.
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On April 06 2010 07:51 FictionJV wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 07:36 Maynard wrote:On April 06 2010 07:26 Fayth wrote:
meh not quite the case anymore maynard as most poker players playing starcraft 2 now were starcraft players too, and the same player who were playing starcraft that didn't play poker in here are playing starcraft 2 now
does it make sense
I think not 8D Not just age. I think there is a certain level of maturity when you are able to step back and realize that playing starcraft so seriously to the point that its unenjoyable its pointless. You will not be rewarded by being a "l33t gamer." You begin to realize that you need to make money or establish yourself career wise in order to obtain the things that you want in life. The poker players are gamers but they've realized this and started making money. Oh yes, because grinding it out multiple hours a day, every day is just so much fun. The only difference between poker and other games is that you don't have to be in the top few to actually make money off it. For the rest don't act like poker players are more mature, or have a better vision on life, because it is just exactly the same, except that it's easier to make money in poker then it is in e-sports Anyway, I really want to see Smuft vs Idra, but I guess it's never gonna happen 
Smuft is a poker player. he understands odds.. Hes betting an ammount his opponent cant call.
smart guy :D
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Poll: How much would you contribute to see this epic grudge match happen?
(Vote): $1
(Vote): $2-$5
(Vote): $5-$10
(Vote): $10-$25
(Vote): $25-$50
(Vote): $50-$100
(Vote): $100-$200
(Vote): $200-$500
(Vote): $500-$1000
(Vote): $1000+
I'd put in $1 to see this happen. i'm sure there's some way we could pool funds together (Paypal? idk)
this would merely be a prize pool contribution by the community, since idra won't accept backing.
smuft, what is the absolute minimum you would play for?
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On April 06 2010 07:36 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Oooooook so it still comes back to what I just said a few posts up... Smuft shouldn't be saying anything. I assume you guys don't understand so I'll say it another way:
A dude publicly makes a claim. People say the claim should be backed up. The dude gives a reason why he doesn't want to back it up. People say don't make a claim if you aren't going to back it up.
You guys are all discussing whether or not the reason the dude gives is good or not. It doesn't matter. What Smuft says is as at least as much bullshit as what IdrA says if he doesn't back it up.
Smuft has already won more times over IdrA than IdrA has won over him since the start of this beta (at least to post by Smuft which wasn't refuted by IdrA, so I'll assume it's true). He's got nothing to prove in regards to that, so why would he come back and play a match that would cause him to lose money no matter the outcome of the actual game (if the bet stayed at $500)? For the entertainment of the people of this forum? No, I don't think so.
And btw the claim was that IdrA is not unbeatable which he backed up by referring to recent and past results because IdrA raged about not being invited to this tourney again and essentially saying it was because he was unbeatable. IdrA followed up said claim with challenging him to a money fight and above I reiterated why Smuft wouldn't take it for that relatively low sum.
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easier to make more money in poker than in esports, not really easier to make money :/
or else everyone would try it and succeed, fact is, many players even with a starcraft backround failed
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On April 06 2010 08:05 Fayth wrote:
easier to make more money in poker than in esports, not really easier to make money :/
or else everyone would try it and succeed, fact is, many players even with a starcraft backround failed
Ye, sorry, I probably worded that wrong, I meant easier compared to trying to make money in e-sports.
Not easier in general
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 06 2010 08:06 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 08:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
There's no reason to say poker players are more mature. Besides having money and caring more about money there is no indication that they are more mature than anyone else whatsoever. You could argue that having a lot of money at a young age does a lot of various things to young people, none of them include maturing.
The realization that you need to make money in life is something even the most broke person can come to. People good at gaming switching to poker to make money so they can continue not to get education and stick with more gaming is the opposite of what most of the world would describe as maturing. And that's coming from someone who never finished his education. It's just an entirely useless debate to bring up at all.
Smuft has every right to make a claim based on facts in the past it says nothing about whether he would want to take up a match in the future. There is without a doubt a difference in motivation to practice for a match that is about $500. Idra would play his ass off and Smuft might not care enough to do the same. Realizing that you are at a motivational disadvantage for this amount of money and offering to play for more is perfectly fine.
No idea why everyone desperately try to pick a side in this. Idra offered something and Smuft decided not to do it and no one is at fault for that. Probably right. But realizing you need to move beyond gaming for nothing is a step. In some instances choosing poker over the traditional education is wiser. Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 08:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On April 06 2010 07:36 Maynard wrote:On April 06 2010 07:26 Fayth wrote:
meh not quite the case anymore maynard as most poker players playing starcraft 2 now were starcraft players too, and the same player who were playing starcraft that didn't play poker in here are playing starcraft 2 now
does it make sense
I think not 8D Not just age. I think there is a certain level of maturity when you are able to step back and realize that playing starcraft so seriously to the point that its unenjoyable its pointless. You will not be rewarded by being a "l33t gamer." You begin to realize that you need to make money or establish yourself career wise in order to obtain the things that you want in life. The poker players are gamers but they've realized this and started making money. Couldn't disagree more. Successful poker players are often times bigger social retards than any batch of successful sc players. Additionally saying sc competition is "pointless" is particularly shortsighted and retarded. I've been there and done that. Trust me, unless you're absolutely having the time of your life doing it, it is going to be an absolute waste.
And trust ME. I've been to korea, mexico, all over the US. I've met friends for life.. I've been on a TV show I've been interviewed by local and national news agencies. I've been hired for various projects. I have an AMAZING time doing all of this and I am surrounding myself with good / likeminded people.
I think you need to loosen your incredibly pessimistic perspective on eSports and competitive gaming. Sure it can be a waste. But it is up to the person to get what they want out of it. I am getting more than I could ever dream and I'm not done yet.
Don't tell me it is a waste when you have no idea... maybe it was a waste for you.
BTW: don't do the "well I was a pro in korea so I knw better" or w/e.. this as far as I am concerned is an incredibly personal experience. For some it was a waste and for others it wasn't.. you saying it is always a waste unless you switch to a career in something else is bad and that is my argument.
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IMO, Smuft spending a few hour each day practicing for a Bo5 against Idra over $500 isn't losing any "opportunity cost" at all. Heck, forget about the $500, just do it for nothing and purely for pride.
Somehow, the $5000 raise appears like a dodge, even if it truly isn't in Smuft's view. Everybody knows that B-teamers don't get paid sh*t, and $500 is plenty to Idra already.
If $500 isn't much to Smuft, then Smuft shouldn't even practice hard and just play Idra on a date Smuft is comfortable with.
That's why the $5K raise appears like a dodge to not put Smuft's reputation on the line. Whether it truly is a dodge or not, we will never know.
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On April 06 2010 08:21 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 08:06 Maynard wrote:On April 06 2010 08:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
There's no reason to say poker players are more mature. Besides having money and caring more about money there is no indication that they are more mature than anyone else whatsoever. You could argue that having a lot of money at a young age does a lot of various things to young people, none of them include maturing.
The realization that you need to make money in life is something even the most broke person can come to. People good at gaming switching to poker to make money so they can continue not to get education and stick with more gaming is the opposite of what most of the world would describe as maturing. And that's coming from someone who never finished his education. It's just an entirely useless debate to bring up at all.
Smuft has every right to make a claim based on facts in the past it says nothing about whether he would want to take up a match in the future. There is without a doubt a difference in motivation to practice for a match that is about $500. Idra would play his ass off and Smuft might not care enough to do the same. Realizing that you are at a motivational disadvantage for this amount of money and offering to play for more is perfectly fine.
No idea why everyone desperately try to pick a side in this. Idra offered something and Smuft decided not to do it and no one is at fault for that. Probably right. But realizing you need to move beyond gaming for nothing is a step. In some instances choosing poker over the traditional education is wiser. On April 06 2010 08:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On April 06 2010 07:36 Maynard wrote:On April 06 2010 07:26 Fayth wrote:
meh not quite the case anymore maynard as most poker players playing starcraft 2 now were starcraft players too, and the same player who were playing starcraft that didn't play poker in here are playing starcraft 2 now
does it make sense
I think not 8D Not just age. I think there is a certain level of maturity when you are able to step back and realize that playing starcraft so seriously to the point that its unenjoyable its pointless. You will not be rewarded by being a "l33t gamer." You begin to realize that you need to make money or establish yourself career wise in order to obtain the things that you want in life. The poker players are gamers but they've realized this and started making money. Couldn't disagree more. Successful poker players are often times bigger social retards than any batch of successful sc players. Additionally saying sc competition is "pointless" is particularly shortsighted and retarded. I've been there and done that. Trust me, unless you're absolutely having the time of your life doing it, it is going to be an absolute waste. And trust ME. I've been to korea, mexico, all over the US. I've met friends for life.. I've been on a TV show I've been interviewed by local and national news agencies. I've been hired for various projects. I have an AMAZING time doing all of this and I am surrounding myself with good / likeminded people. I think you need to loosen your incredibly pessimistic perspective on eSports and competitive gaming. Sure it can be a waste. But it is up to the person to get what they want out of it. I am getting more than I could ever dream and I'm not done yet. Don't tell me it is a waste when you have no idea... maybe it was a waste for you. BTW: don't do the "well I was a pro in korea so I knw better" or w/e.. this as far as I am concerned is an incredibly personal experience. For some it was a waste and for others it wasn't.. you saying it is always a waste unless you switch to a career in something else is bad and that is my argument.
saying poker players are bigger social retards than sc players is pretty dumb too, you don't want maynard to make wrong assumptions, don't make any yourself :/
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Also everything naz said is pretty much spot on imo
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On April 06 2010 08:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
There's no reason to say poker players are more mature. Besides having money and caring more about money there is no indication that they are more mature than anyone else whatsoever. You could argue that having a lot of money at a young age does a lot of various things to young people, for some they include maturing, for others it's the opposite.
The realization that you need to make money in life is something even the most broke person can come to. People good at gaming switching to poker to make money so they can continue not to get education and stick with more gaming is the opposite of what most of the world would describe as maturing. And that's coming from someone who never finished his education. It's just an entirely useless debate to bring up at all.
Smuft has every right to make a claim based on facts in the past it says nothing about whether he would want to take up a match in the future. There is without a doubt a difference in motivation to practice for a match that is about $500. Idra would play his ass off and Smuft might not care enough to do the same. Realizing that you are at a motivational disadvantage for this amount of money and offering to play for more is perfectly fine.
No idea why everyone desperately try to pick a side in this. Idra offered something and Smuft decided not to do it and no one is at fault for that.
there's a lot to maturity which neither sc or poker will ever help you with.
but growing up and realizing that you need to pay rent and buy food and at some point the things you do in a day need to result in money to do these things is a part of maturity.
separate from any of that, idra seems to behave like a brat. it's disappointing that someone is so dismissive of where he comes from and generally a little bastard. but there have always been little bastards playing starcraft and no reason for starcraft 2 to be any different.
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thing is that little bastard is like 21 yrs old or something? would be about time to be a grown up little bastard
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On April 06 2010 10:11 Fayth wrote:
thing is that little bastard is like 21 yrs old or something? would be about time to be a grown up little bastard
i have never seen so much irony crammed into 1 post
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EPT
