EPTHonestly it seems like terran can just go marines/siege tanks and not even care about what your army composition is?
The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 14
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
Honestly it seems like terran can just go marines/siege tanks and not even care about what your army composition is? | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On January 23 2016 09:59 Hyper1 wrote: I just logged in to see the new balance map and changes. Which makes me really confused. From all the tournaments I've seen, terran have pretty much dominated, with the exception of solar obviously. Why would they make changes simply to help terran become even stronger, when they seem extremely OP as it is? DK actually mentions this also in the balance changes. There is a lot of whining by terran. The Protoss pros are also saying they think P is OP vs T. But for some reason I don't see it in the tournament results. Maybe the pro's have very good in house stats which he also observed. Personally I'm trying to play P v T without using adept drops and basically can't get it to work hoping to see some pro games. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On January 24 2016 09:36 Dracover wrote: DK actually mentions this also in the balance changes. There is a lot of whining by terran. The Protoss pros are also saying they think P is OP vs T. But for some reason I don't see it in the tournament results. Maybe the pro's have very good in house stats which he also observed. Personally I'm trying to play P v T without using adept drops and basically can't get it to work hoping to see some pro games. My feelings exactly, from every tournament I see protoss have to harass like crazy just to stop terran from killing us easily. Most of the threads by protoss and zerg are how to deal with terran. terrans threads are all about how there are now units that marines can't take down easily on their own, adepts, ultra's... It seems like unless terran just don't bother defending at all, like every other race has to against them, drops will be pretty much useless. Marines already do more damage than adepts even against light targets (2 marines do 19.6 dps, adept does 14.27 against light) and cost less, they're also the main composition of every terran army, along with multiple medivacs so they can drop a stronger force on a whim. I'm guessing it's going to change the meta to protoss having to turtle more and harass with oracle and maybe zealot drop. I don't see many people using adepts outside of harass anyway, and now that it will take 3 shots from an adept to kill a worker, the same amount of shots it takes a zealot, but zealots have a faster attack speed, I don't really see adepts being useful at all. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
On January 24 2016 13:40 Hyper1 wrote: ptitDroga mentioned a picture of perfect pylon placement for PO protecting your mineral line. Does anyone know where I can find this picture? pitdrogo lost a game because of bad pylon placement against liberator vs uthermal. the perfect pylon placements does not exist because to cover all the weak spot you just need more pylons than u can afford in early game. I usually make sure to place at least 1 pylon in each mineral line at map border to kill libs, but in late game u need at least 2 or 3 to cover all... | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
On January 25 2016 01:35 travis wrote: hey seriously can someone tell me what the actual army composition you want vs liberator/marine/tank is? I guess colossus+tempest are keyunits against that composition. The problem is to scout and switch asap | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
On January 25 2016 01:35 travis wrote: hey seriously can someone tell me what the actual army composition you want vs liberator/marine/tank is? Personally I've never been able to beat this comp. Watching pro replays, some people get tempest to tickle them until terran does something. Some have been able to blink in when the bio ball decided to completely move away from them. Even then it takes 3 stalkers with blink to kill a liberator, or 4 without blink, and you'll lose all but one. So I guess the best answer is tempest, and I've had good luck with HT using storm against ground units. I would also be interested to see how phoenix with range upgrade did. ...Or if you ask terran, adepts, they beat everything, even in the air. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5468 Posts
On January 25 2016 01:35 travis wrote: hey seriously can someone tell me what the actual army composition you want vs liberator/marine/tank is? I only play at platinum but I've had really good success with phoenix into quick third and high templar. | ||
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Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
On January 25 2016 03:28 SoleSteeler wrote: I only play at platinum but I've had really good success with phoenix into quick third and high templar. ^ THIS It can die to 5rax and what not, but that is a scouting issue and nothing should be 100% viable anyways while playing in the dark. This army comp is micro intensive and requires sound map awareness however, so its not for the fickle player. If you haven't used HTs or Phoenix before, prepare to lose a bunch of games. But its an honorable way to play the game and the better player will win. Which is how people want the game to work. It can get scrappy which is definitely fun to watch, and can be fun to play in retrospect. Though in game it may be overwhelming. Overall if you want to learn how to be a better player. This is the style to play. It has a steep learning curve, but it will pay off if you stick with it. Does anyone know if pros have been going Phoenix WP Adept harass/drops against Terran while teching back home to Storm? It seems fun in theory, though several Turrets would rain on your micro. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
I'm not saying it's OP or anything, I'm just not sure what exactly to do to take that thing down in a small engagement. I was basically stuck chrono boosting out units for it to eat while I made a stargate and oracles. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
This is what most terran's are complaining about, the fact that they can't scout the difference. | ||
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Sweetness.751
United States225 Posts
On January 26 2016 08:22 Hyper1 wrote: Ok, so this is a really weird question, and I feel like I should know it, but how do I handle early game cyclone harass? I wasn't able to scout it coming, but I had obviously prepared for a reaper opening. I had an adept, stalker, and MSC. He used a barracks flying overhead to give him high ground vision, then just kited me. If I didn't go after him, he's just keep poking and taking out units, but chasing him did nothing either. When I was able to catch up to get some shots off, he had SCV's to repair. I was eventually able to chrono-boost out enough to stop it, but not before losing a lot of units to it, and stalling my economy. It was pretty much game from that point, I couldn't catch up, and he was harassing too much for me to be greedy enough to be able to. I'm not saying it's OP or anything, I'm just not sure what exactly to do to take that thing down in a small engagement. I was basically stuck chrono boosting out units for it to eat while I made a stargate and oracles. You need units and micro to be honest. I abuse the lock-on feature and micro the unit it looks onto out of the fight. I would put my units near a forward pylon and have the MSC hover behind it out of vision. Do not let him see the MSC as its not fast enough to micro. Then just let him come to you. Assuming you have a stalker and a pylon, just micro accordingly. He locks onto the pylon, you overcharge and attack with the Stalker to push the Cyclone back. The pylon will attack the Barracks in the mean time. Build a 2nd pylon, then come back home once the lock-on is over. Chrono out Stalkers WHILE making probes. When he locks onto your Stalker, you pull the targeted Stalker back. If he pushes the Cyclone or the Barracks forward to keep vision, you overcharge the pylon. Hes the one on the timer, not you. Don't feel forced to engage away from your pylon. Try to have 2 pylons up at all times though. If he targets one down replace it with another pylon. Rinse and repeat. | ||
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ThreeLilpigs
14 Posts
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Hyper1
158 Posts
It does bring up something I was wondering about, and maybe people with more experience can help with it. I've really picked up playing in the past month or two, and played through bronze, silver, and now getting matched with gold and plat, and I've noticed extremely distinct styles in each. Am I just having weird luck, or is it really just a huge change? It's actually my PvP matchup that really got me thinking. Literally every gold protoss player I've met on ladder only uses cheese. Bronze-silver I almost never got cheesed. I've noticed subtle changes in all races, that was just the most distinctive. Another thing, how do I get better APM? I don't mean like how to move my fingers faster, but more what am I supposed to be doing? I do everything I can think of that needs to be done, but especially in the early game, there's not a ton to be doing, yet people are still hitting 4-5 times my APM. I hover right around 60, yet facing people at 250-300. That's a lot people are doing that I'm not doing. | ||
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Nazara
United Kingdom235 Posts
I'm a 110-130 apm player and 50% of my opponents have 170 or more. Don't worry about it. Focus more on tasks at hand. Scout more, build units constantly, don't get supply blocked etc. | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
Playing on diamond level, terran goes into late mass liberator (talking about 10-14) with bio on the ground, later on ghosts. Need some advice please, a bit frustrated^^ Greetings! | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On January 27 2016 11:09 EXRNaRa wrote: What do you do against lategame liberators? Normaly i play with Adept, Imo, Disruptor into templar. Playing on diamond level, terran goes into late mass liberator (talking about 10-14) with bio on the ground, later on ghosts. Need some advice please, a bit frustrated^^ Greetings! Hello, some replays of you playing in such a situation would be ideal for us to help you better. But generally speaking, Tempests from 2 Stargates is the current standard to deal with mass Liberators late-game. You would also need Oracles - preferably more than 1 - to constantly cast Revelation on the Terran army, such that your Tempests could utilise their full range. Note that the Terran response to this would be massed Vikings - that is why your ground army needs to retain a high amount of Stalkers, preferably more than 10, to snipe the Vikings and Blink away as the Terran ground force rushes in to protect their air fleet. Thus, in the late game, your army should ideally have a large amount of Adepts(the core part of the ground army), Immortals (around 6-8), Stalkers as mentioned above, High Templar both with your main army to punish any Terran incursion AND to stay with Cannon outposts to stop drops, and Disruptors(preferably around 4-5 of them). The late-game battle procedure is as follows - Oracle casts Revelation to track and expose the Terran army. Tempests fire on Terran Liberators. Terran Vikings come in to engage the Tempests, and Liberators follow to make the ground underneath uninhabitable. Kite back your Tempests, and move your Stalkers forward and kill the Vikings. When the Terran bio rushes in, fire off your Disruptors and use Storms if possible, while Blinking your Stalkers back to avoid losses. As the Terran retreats, move forward and repeat this cycle until you are in range of one of the Terran bases, at which point you are besieging his economy and forcing him into an engagement, etc. Note that the above requires very strong army cohesion and control. Not a single part of your army can afford to be caught out of position, at which point the Terran would gain a significant advantage over you. The Terran would usually do this by attacking/dropping in multiple places at once, which is why you need mass Cannons and HTs to defend and Storm if necessary. | ||
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Hyper1
158 Posts
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