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The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 75

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 73 74 75
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
December 21 2019 00:03 GMT
#1481
On December 21 2019 04:18 Solio wrote:
does someone know how to defend this : https://drop.sc/replay/12658023 ?


A part of me died a little just by watching the details of the replay on drop.sc directly.
I'm quite happy that I do not play PvP (I'm Zerg), and I can only say that I'm sorry for you :x
ZeKk32
Profile Joined March 2017
4 Posts
December 21 2019 04:37 GMT
#1482
On December 19 2019 09:15 Solio wrote:
How to defend a 12 pool but with a proxy hatchery that prevents you from walling, i have tried to chronoboost 2 zealots and pull 6 probes i'm able to barely win the fight but then more lings come and i die.

image of the zerg build : [image loading]

Should i try to build a wall behind the hatch or should i try to pull more probes ?


You should complete the wall immediatly whence you scout the 12 pool to prevent this from evening happen.
Kertorak
Profile Joined November 2019
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-21 15:33:31
December 21 2019 15:20 GMT
#1483
Would some one share prioritiies (or a priority list) of what to look at when self analysing protoss (my play)?
A) Generally:
- for instance I am unsure on probe production , if you really need that constantly, because of chrono boost giving a similiar dynamic as with zerg economy (but less extreme). and also of course you want a (new) nexus for your probes to harvest minerals from...
So maybe you can share some knowledge about how the economic/army flow works perfectly?
- Regarding that, I know of either timings or reactive play and alot of scouting...
- what are key things to look at?
- any tips welcome

B) If not being able to scout for the moment, wanting to optimize army/economic growth at the same time. ?


Maybe a fitting game dymaic question would be:
What ought to go first?
- Building a Probe on unsaturated base? (like 10 to 13)
- Or a New nexus? (When you can defend it/yourself of course)

That question comes often, when building an FE for instance.
- A faster probe will give you income earlier.
- A faster nexus will give you another probe production center quicker.

You could apply the same question to Terran's: CC first or OC transformation first? (here everyone does the OC first... offtopic)
I wish I had quality over quantity | "The point of Sc<x> is that your skill a constant WIP - which provides that unique joy of the game - not to post which rank you are in a this moment"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
December 23 2019 23:52 GMT
#1484
Watch a pro replay or a progamer streaming. Take notes.
david0925
Profile Joined September 2010
212 Posts
January 02 2020 09:44 GMT
#1485
For Phoenix wars in pvp (let's keep things simple, so let's say 0/0/0 upgrade), what is the best way to micro?

In theory, Phoenix have 180 effective hp, they do 20 per attack to light units, so that means 9 phoenix will one shot a phoenix. Does this mean that I should be boxing 9 phoenixes to have them attack one phoenix to one shot them to reduce their numbers quickly, or is it better just Move them so they just attack as soon as they can to maximize overall damage output?
Kertorak
Profile Joined November 2019
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-02 20:37:35
January 02 2020 20:28 GMT
#1486
@danger
a pro gamer does most things right, it's not helping me with a priority list, also they have different reasonings on why they do what.. which even some commentators don't know about. The general order is of course useful, but on that very strategy, you answered to the example, the example is just to make my point clear. Thanks for the idea.

@dav I'm not sure, I'd recommend - because those units are extremly flimsy - to prioritize being in optimal range with all your phoenix. Boxing and individual targeting is really difficult when the enemy is controlling units that fire while moving, so that could backfire alot. You will often just hit what is in range some are already damaged etc etc. If anything several hotkeys (not boxing), but again Imo that's unpractical as some of your phoenix will die durig the fight, there is no way you can regroup them quickly enough.

These thigns are nice ideas, but in sc2 it is often unpractical, I think it is only done in stalker vs stalker wars.
You could try several fights in the lotv unit tester! (you can do the auto-fight or you can play vs a friend) and try around.
I wish I had quality over quantity | "The point of Sc<x> is that your skill a constant WIP - which provides that unique joy of the game - not to post which rank you are in a this moment"
Kertorak
Profile Joined November 2019
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-03 23:37:10
January 03 2020 22:49 GMT
#1487
~ edit: asked about a bug here, but could find out myself~
I wish I had quality over quantity | "The point of Sc<x> is that your skill a constant WIP - which provides that unique joy of the game - not to post which rank you are in a this moment"
Aesto
Profile Joined September 2014
44 Posts
January 08 2020 02:26 GMT
#1488
@Kertorak:
Watching pro replays is good advice because it gives you a frame of reference for roughly what you should have at a given point in time. Knowing how many Probes to have requires a feeling for the game, and watching replays helps with that.

That being said, another good reference is your opponent (if you check after the game). If you're playing macro games, you should generally be aiming to be about 5 Probes ahead against Terran, about 5 Probes ahead against Zerg until about 40 Probes, after that his econ kicks in and you'll be 5-10 Probes behind. In PvP it's harder to say because the matchup is so volatile. If you're too far ahead you might have to sacrifice some in order not to die.

Making workers when you don't have bases to put them in is something you almost never do in SC2, and especially not as Protoss (only if someone contains you). You make one base, saturate it, and then perhaps you make the next. Against Terran you should aim to be making your 3rd (and any more bases) a bit earlier than him, against Zerg you should aim to not be more than 1 base behind, and against Protoss it's again really hard to explain.

As for Chronoboost - it's not really comparable to the Zerg economy because you can also spend it on upgrades and units. There is no "correct" chrono use, while injecting is just required to not be bad. As a general rule, use it on workers until you have about 40, after that, on upgrades. Use it on units if you really need them asap. Also boost your first gateway unit (which you usually use to scout). Watching pro replays is an excellent source of information on what to Chronoboost.

And yes, unless there is a reason not to (incoming timing attack), you should be constantly making probes until saturation.

@david0925:
You don't micro Phoenix wars. All that matters is 1) how many Phoenix you have compared to your opponent, 2) where your Phoenix are on the map (no use in being up 1-2 Phoenix if they're just leaving your base if the rest of your fleet is in your opponent's base), and 3) whether either player has Phoenix range. Besides not fighting over your opponent's Shield Batteries/Cannons, there is no micro involved.
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
January 14 2020 02:54 GMT
#1489
This is just a general question really, but how do I change hotkeys so that I can warp in units by holding down a key rather than alternating pressing unit hotkey and clicking where to warp in? It's been a while, but I remember setting it up as a zerg main for creep to spread quickly.

I am noob, please help lol
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
January 14 2020 06:07 GMT
#1490
Less is more.
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
January 14 2020 13:36 GMT
#1491
On January 14 2020 15:07 insitelol wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XV4YfKu5E


My Protoss MMR thanks you
BabelFish1
Profile Joined September 2015
186 Posts
January 14 2020 20:36 GMT
#1492
On January 08 2020 11:26 Aesto wrote:
@Kertorak:
Watching pro replays is good advice because it gives you a frame of reference for roughly what you should have at a given point in time. Knowing how many Probes to have requires a feeling for the game, and watching replays helps with that.

That being said, another good reference is your opponent (if you check after the game). If you're playing macro games, you should generally be aiming to be about 5 Probes ahead against Terran, about 5 Probes ahead against Zerg until about 40 Probes, after that his econ kicks in and you'll be 5-10 Probes behind. In PvP it's harder to say because the matchup is so volatile. If you're too far ahead you might have to sacrifice some in order not to die.

Making workers when you don't have bases to put them in is something you almost never do in SC2, and especially not as Protoss (only if someone contains you). You make one base, saturate it, and then perhaps you make the next. Against Terran you should aim to be making your 3rd (and any more bases) a bit earlier than him, against Zerg you should aim to not be more than 1 base behind, and against Protoss it's again really hard to explain.

As for Chronoboost - it's not really comparable to the Zerg economy because you can also spend it on upgrades and units. There is no "correct" chrono use, while injecting is just required to not be bad. As a general rule, use it on workers until you have about 40, after that, on upgrades. Use it on units if you really need them asap. Also boost your first gateway unit (which you usually use to scout). Watching pro replays is an excellent source of information on what to Chronoboost.

And yes, unless there is a reason not to (incoming timing attack), you should be constantly making probes until saturation.

@david0925:
You don't micro Phoenix wars. All that matters is 1) how many Phoenix you have compared to your opponent, 2) where your Phoenix are on the map (no use in being up 1-2 Phoenix if they're just leaving your base if the rest of your fleet is in your opponent's base), and 3) whether either player has Phoenix range. Besides not fighting over your opponent's Shield Batteries/Cannons, there is no micro involved.


Just to add to this, a common mistake Protoss players make is stopping probe production. It doesn't matter if you have 21/16 on your mineral line. You can transfer them as soon as a Nexi finishes or start long range mining as a base finishes. Thank PIG and AlphaStar for that bit of goodness, not an original thought from me.
BabelFish1
Profile Joined September 2015
186 Posts
January 14 2020 20:41 GMT
#1493
On January 14 2020 15:07 insitelol wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XV4YfKu5E


This is one of the most important things a new player can do. Rapid Fire is integral to high level play for all races. And don't worry about rapid fire plus certain spells not working correctly, throw all the applicable spells/warp gate units on rapid fire and if you run into issues like with Force Field, cast it as per normal. I mean I have storm on rapid fire...doesn't mean I rapid fire cast storm...it just means I can if I choose to.
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