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The LotV Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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madnessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1581 Posts
January 21 2016 03:26 GMT
#241
How do you effectively deal with 3 base speedling with overlord speed play? I can never hold my 3rd against that but if I stay on 2 base, I just die to the follow up ravager push.
st0rmy
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-21 09:26:11
January 21 2016 09:15 GMT
#242
any help on dealing with the following zerg late game composition?

ultras -- 7x
broodlords -- 4x
vipers -- 5x
hydras -- 13x
queens -- 7xx
lings -- 32x

[image loading]


replay can be downloaded from: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6418170

my army was crushed, albeit in a bad engage
i can think of the following improvements:

1 -- track the zerg army via oracle revelation
2 -- try to feedback the vipers/queens as much as possible before the engagement
3 -- target fire the ultras with the immortals instead of fighting broodlings
4 -- focus on getting more air upgrades sooner
5 -- delay until the nearly finished 2 carriers + 2 immortals pop out

@TL folks:

1 -- any suggestions for improvement?
2 -- beyond my execution errors, i'm curious what others think is the best protoss counter to the above zerg composition?

thanks!
ez
-HuShang-
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada393 Posts
January 21 2016 18:50 GMT
#243
-more templar
-don't fight him in the open.
-Revelation and pick off the broodlords and feedback the vipers, queens.
-Target firing the ultras is a waste of time(cant do everything, have to prioritize).

Waiting for the carriers and immortals is a good idea. Why are you building immortals though? More air units would be better than immortals. During this you should have a counter attack of zealots to force him to come into a bad position prematurely.
Professional Starcraft 2 Coach & Caster | Message me for more info or business proposals
-HuShang-
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada393 Posts
January 21 2016 18:52 GMT
#244
On January 21 2016 12:26 madnessman wrote:
How do you effectively deal with 3 base speedling with overlord speed play? I can never hold my 3rd against that but if I stay on 2 base, I just die to the follow up ravager push.


adepts + photon overcharge/kill the overlords with air units. If you had these things but still died you just need to practice doing it more efficiently. It's not an easy defence. After you defend, putting 1 cannon in each mineral line is a solid choice.
Professional Starcraft 2 Coach & Caster | Message me for more info or business proposals
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
January 21 2016 19:09 GMT
#245
ok... liberators
come on with these fucking liberators, wtf
there are spots on some of these maps where they can hit your mineral lines but you 100% can't hit them without getting in their field and even then u can only hit them with 1 or 2 stalkers max
HOW IS THAT REMOTELY FAIR. I don't understand what I am supposed to do other than just take it up the ass.
Payson
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States394 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-21 19:59:46
January 21 2016 19:59 GMT
#246
On January 22 2016 04:09 travis wrote:
ok... liberators
come on with these fucking liberators, wtf
there are spots on some of these maps where they can hit your mineral lines but you 100% can't hit them without getting in their field and even then u can only hit them with 1 or 2 stalkers max
HOW IS THAT REMOTELY FAIR. I don't understand what I am supposed to do other than just take it up the ass.


I've found that proper pylon placement behind your mineral can make a PO easily dispatch liberators (always have your MsC floating between your main and nat). I open Stargate for an oracle in a lot of my PvTs as well and just getting out two phoenixes drops them before too much economic damage can be done.

Generally if they have a liberator in your mineral, it's best to be dropping them with four adepts at the same time. Terran usually isn't focusing as intently as they should your four adepts easily make the trade worthwhile.


Or you can just make sure the game doesn't reach that point by going Proxy Robo
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
January 21 2016 20:18 GMT
#247
In response to that, it seems that cyclone openers are becoming more common. warp prism vs cycloner opener is pretty dangerous yeah?
Payson
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States394 Posts
January 21 2016 21:55 GMT
#248
On January 22 2016 05:18 travis wrote:
In response to that, it seems that cyclone openers are becoming more common. warp prism vs cycloner opener is pretty dangerous yeah?


Don't get caught out

Pay attention to the Prism when you go to drop. I honestly don't have many issues with the Cyclone. If they bust out a Lib and that they are delaying their Medicavs and I can take an easy third for little cost.
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 01:41 GMT
#249
Does anyone have an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch? I run into the problem that if I build an army that can handle the roach/ravager/hydra, I lose when he just builds 16 muta's and wipes out my economy, but if I build an army that could withstand the muta switch, I get crushed my roach/ravager/hydra.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-22 15:19:10
January 22 2016 02:12 GMT
#250
On January 22 2016 10:41 Hyper1 wrote:
Does anyone have an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch? I run into the problem that if I build an army that can handle the roach/ravager/hydra, I lose when he just builds 16 muta's and wipes out my economy, but if I build an army that could withstand the muta switch, I get crushed my roach/ravager/hydra.


I see a lot of good protosses (from streams) use 2 port phoenix, or even throw up 2 ports for phoenix when scouting a muta switch. they pick up hydras/lurkers/whatever else, can harrass, give you peace of mind, etc. but of course you need to be good with phoenixes. the army comp ends up being like chargelot/zealot/archon/immortal/phoenix most of the time. until very late late game at least.
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 02:19 GMT
#251
On January 22 2016 11:12 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2016 10:41 Hyper1 wrote:
Does anyone have an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch? I run into the problem that if I build an army that can handle the roach/ravager/hydra, I lose when he just builds 16 muta's and wipes out my economy, but if I build an army that could withstand the muta switch, I get crushed my roach/ravager/hydra.


I see a lot of good protosses (from streams) use 2 port phoenix, or even throw up 2 ports for phoenix when scouting a muta switch. they pick up hydras/lurkers/whatever else, can harrass, give you peace of mind, etc. but of course you need to be good with fenixes.


Yeah, I'm not great with phoenixes, especially against hydra's. Plus I usually have a hard time getting in to scout to find the spire. One time I did see a spire right as it was coming up, and started pumping out phoenix non-stop, but couldn't get enough out to deal with his 16 muta's, who ignored my phoenix and stalkers completely and just flew into each of my mineral lines and killed all my probes. Pretty much ended the game.

Between that and zerg getting massively larger armies faster than me, my streak has been hurt. Though not as bad as protoss, literally every protoss I've played to day did nothing but cheese. Today has just not been my day, lol.
-HuShang-
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada393 Posts
January 22 2016 04:00 GMT
#252
On January 22 2016 11:19 Hyper1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2016 11:12 travis wrote:
On January 22 2016 10:41 Hyper1 wrote:
Does anyone have an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch? I run into the problem that if I build an army that can handle the roach/ravager/hydra, I lose when he just builds 16 muta's and wipes out my economy, but if I build an army that could withstand the muta switch, I get crushed my roach/ravager/hydra.


I see a lot of good protosses (from streams) use 2 port phoenix, or even throw up 2 ports for phoenix when scouting a muta switch. they pick up hydras/lurkers/whatever else, can harrass, give you peace of mind, etc. but of course you need to be good with fenixes.


Yeah, I'm not great with phoenixes, especially against hydra's. Plus I usually have a hard time getting in to scout to find the spire. One time I did see a spire right as it was coming up, and started pumping out phoenix non-stop, but couldn't get enough out to deal with his 16 muta's, who ignored my phoenix and stalkers completely and just flew into each of my mineral lines and killed all my probes. Pretty much ended the game.

Between that and zerg getting massively larger armies faster than me, my streak has been hurt. Though not as bad as protoss, literally every protoss I've played to day did nothing but cheese. Today has just not been my day, lol.


Not reactive, just open phoenix. You dont have to see the spire. You need to see, is he making units or is he not making units? How much do these units cost? You'll get a good feeling for it eventually... but if you open phoenix you dont need to worry about the muta at all cause if he goes muta you just have 8-10 phoenix already. The koreans are opening 1 adept -> sentry -> sentry -> third -> double stargate. Use the sentries to scout if he's going for a roach/ravager all in and then you can decide if its safe to make phoenix or if you need to make voidrays and adepts
Professional Starcraft 2 Coach & Caster | Message me for more info or business proposals
Mattitude905
Profile Joined November 2015
35 Posts
January 22 2016 04:53 GMT
#253
anyone who plays protoss and actually needs help must be mentally challenged.

I mean who really cant figure out tier 1 tech to adepts?

User was warned for this post
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 04:58 GMT
#254
On January 22 2016 13:00 -HuShang- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2016 11:19 Hyper1 wrote:
On January 22 2016 11:12 travis wrote:
On January 22 2016 10:41 Hyper1 wrote:
Does anyone have an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch? I run into the problem that if I build an army that can handle the roach/ravager/hydra, I lose when he just builds 16 muta's and wipes out my economy, but if I build an army that could withstand the muta switch, I get crushed my roach/ravager/hydra.


I see a lot of good protosses (from streams) use 2 port phoenix, or even throw up 2 ports for phoenix when scouting a muta switch. they pick up hydras/lurkers/whatever else, can harrass, give you peace of mind, etc. but of course you need to be good with fenixes.


Yeah, I'm not great with phoenixes, especially against hydra's. Plus I usually have a hard time getting in to scout to find the spire. One time I did see a spire right as it was coming up, and started pumping out phoenix non-stop, but couldn't get enough out to deal with his 16 muta's, who ignored my phoenix and stalkers completely and just flew into each of my mineral lines and killed all my probes. Pretty much ended the game.

Between that and zerg getting massively larger armies faster than me, my streak has been hurt. Though not as bad as protoss, literally every protoss I've played to day did nothing but cheese. Today has just not been my day, lol.


Not reactive, just open phoenix. You dont have to see the spire. You need to see, is he making units or is he not making units? How much do these units cost? You'll get a good feeling for it eventually... but if you open phoenix you dont need to worry about the muta at all cause if he goes muta you just have 8-10 phoenix already. The koreans are opening 1 adept -> sentry -> sentry -> third -> double stargate. Use the sentries to scout if he's going for a roach/ravager all in and then you can decide if its safe to make phoenix or if you need to make voidrays and adepts


How do I know if he's going roach/ravager or if he's just doing that until he transitions into mass muta?
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 05:00 GMT
#255
On January 22 2016 13:53 Mattitude905 wrote:
anyone who plays protoss and actually needs help must be mentally challenged.

I mean who really cant figure out tier 1 tech to adepts?


You could try building something other than a couple marines and adepts wouldn't be as much of a problem... Or just larger numbers of marines...
Mattitude905
Profile Joined November 2015
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-22 05:05:08
January 22 2016 05:04 GMT
#256
On January 22 2016 14:00 Hyper1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2016 13:53 Mattitude905 wrote:
anyone who plays protoss and actually needs help must be mentally challenged.

I mean who really cant figure out tier 1 tech to adepts?


You could try building something other than a couple marines and adepts wouldn't be as much of a problem... Or just larger numbers of marines...



You must be a bronze league player. You are truly clueless towards the reality of SC2 right now.

"Just build more marines" ya because they cost nothing, cost 0 supply and have 0 build time. JUST BUILD MARINES

User was temp banned for this post.
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 05:06 GMT
#257
Lol, sorry, have your SCV's mine some minerals, then build some more marines. I figured you would have been able to understand that...
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 22 2016 06:13 GMT
#258
So other than my question about how to scout if they're going to go roach/ravager all in or not, I need help on a replay:

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6420480

I know losing my oracle was bad, I wasn't expecting so many towers though, and was hoping to escape and at least get a little scouting. I reacted to the liberators as fast as I could, but they killed 13 probes before my PO could push them off. How do I push away 3 liberators faster? I also noticed that my HT ran in to try to storm, but how do I fight a terran trying to do that? He lays down liberation zones, and fights at a range from inside it. I felt like I was playing really well that game, and got crushed.
iLovePartinG
Profile Joined December 2015
20 Posts
January 22 2016 07:42 GMT
#259
On January 22 2016 10:41 Hyper1 wrote:
an army comp that can beat Roach/ravager/hydra, but will also be able to stand up to muta switch

Welcome to SC2 PvZ m8 (^:
The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete
Hyper1
Profile Joined December 2015
158 Posts
January 23 2016 00:59 GMT
#260
I just logged in to see the new balance map and changes. Which makes me really confused. From all the tournaments I've seen, terran have pretty much dominated, with the exception of solar obviously. Why would they make changes simply to help terran become even stronger, when they seem extremely OP as it is? The changes seemed design to make it easier for terran to harass protoss, but harder for protoss to harass terran. That slight change to adepts means it will take 3 shots to kill an SCV or marine, so now our more expensive unit which is really only as good at harassing light units, effectively deals as much damage as marines do against everything. I mean, terran can't get any higher than first place, so I'm not sure what the point is.
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