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What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map.
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On January 17 2016 01:48 Mozdk wrote:
What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map.
To be honest, unless a map has fundamentally broken features like the absolutely absurd ramp from the main base to the natural on Central Protocol, its fine. Of course Prion Terraces and Ulrena are bad for PvZ, but at any level below GM, people's multitasking is poor enough that a strong multitasking style involving 2 Warp Prisms + ~8 Gateways, and good building placement can overcome imbalance.
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On January 17 2016 01:55 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 01:48 Mozdk wrote:
What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map. To be honest, unless a map has fundamentally broken features like the absolutely absurd ramp from the main base to the natural on Central Protocol, its fine. Of course Prion Terraces and Ulrena are bad for PvZ, but at any level below GM, people's multitasking is poor enough that a strong multitasking style involving 2 Warp Prisms + ~8 Gateways, and good building placement can overcome imbalance.
It might. But I don't want to play like that. I don't get any better by playing that style. I go for macro builds that can keep going. Meaning even if I do a timing attack I expand behind, and can pull out (haha) if I don't like what I see. Non commital is for me the best way to get better. So that's what I do. Free wins for points has no real value. I will face better opponents that I am not ready for.
It's the same reason boosts don't work. Your MMR will fall again.
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On January 17 2016 01:48 Mozdk wrote:
What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map.
i ban ulrena, central protocol, and lerilak crest
ulrena is just asking for cheese in every race. the fact that it is viable to mothership core pylon rush in pvp is pretty cringeworthy.
central protocol..... main rocks? absurd ramp into the natural? and generally a more difficult map to easily see building placement on
lerilak crest lol zerg
dusk towers and orbital should be sure fire bets for any player, i dislike prion terraces cause those gold bases make it impossible to play against zerg in a way that doesnt punish their greed. its no fun to be ballsy with adepts when they can spam queens from taking the gold early. ruins of seras is not bad not great, and blink can be abused on this map so thats fun. i would say that cheesy players should be encouraged to go for maps like ulrena and central protocol while more macro oriented players can benefit from seras and lirelak crest
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On January 17 2016 03:20 mentalmath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 01:48 Mozdk wrote:
What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map. i ban ulrena, central protocol, and lerilak crest ulrena is just asking for cheese in every race. the fact that it is viable to mothership core pylon rush in pvp is pretty cringeworthy. central protocol..... main rocks? absurd ramp into the natural? and generally a more difficult map to easily see building placement on lerilak crest lol zerg dusk towers and orbital should be sure fire bets for any player, i dislike prion terraces cause those gold bases make it impossible to play against zerg in a way that doesnt punish their greed. its no fun to be ballsy with adepts when they can spam queens from taking the gold early. ruins of seras is not bad not great, and blink can be abused on this map so thats fun. i would say that cheesy players should be encouraged to go for maps like ulrena and central protocol while more macro oriented players can benefit from seras and lirelak crest
Do you ever win vs Z on Prion? And what league? I'd be "happy" to play it if I believed I could win 40%.
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On January 17 2016 03:44 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 03:20 mentalmath wrote:On January 17 2016 01:48 Mozdk wrote:
What maps have you fellow Protoss banned? I'd like for replies to be only diamond+.
I cannot win PvZ on Ulrena. There is a hatch block build that I cannot possibly beat. I never win PvZ on this map. And I never lose PvT.
But since I might was well leave the game when facing Zerg, I need another map.
Central and Lerilak are absolute BS maps and should never have been in the pool. That leave Prion. Which I can play until they fix the double pylon block at the bottom of the ramp going out from nat. After that is fixed (has it been already?), it will also be pretty impossible vs Zerg. Sure I can beat some worse players, but I should NEVER win vs even skilled opponents. Unless they have a huge macro slip for some random reason.
Seems like horrible map to all in on, and how do I beat random ravager pushes... I haven't found a way, and I have not seen anything from pros that is stable on that map. It's always barely when they do win, and they can't do the same again.
Dusk, Orbital and Seras are decent maps. Not great, but in PvT, PvZ and PvP they are fairly even (except certain spawns on Seras PvT which is broken for P). They are playable. All races can macro or all in. And you are not forced down certain paths that can be countered easily.
Which other map do you guys play? Other than those 4. I guess I could try Lerilak, but it seems mapmakers have forgotten everything we've learned about PvZ for the past 5 years when making that map. i ban ulrena, central protocol, and lerilak crest ulrena is just asking for cheese in every race. the fact that it is viable to mothership core pylon rush in pvp is pretty cringeworthy. central protocol..... main rocks? absurd ramp into the natural? and generally a more difficult map to easily see building placement on lerilak crest lol zerg dusk towers and orbital should be sure fire bets for any player, i dislike prion terraces cause those gold bases make it impossible to play against zerg in a way that doesnt punish their greed. its no fun to be ballsy with adepts when they can spam queens from taking the gold early. ruins of seras is not bad not great, and blink can be abused on this map so thats fun. i would say that cheesy players should be encouraged to go for maps like ulrena and central protocol while more macro oriented players can benefit from seras and lirelak crest Do you ever win vs Z on Prion? And what league? I'd be "happy" to play it if I believe I could win 40%.
i can only win on this map if i choose to all in. either by doing a 1 base proxy robo/4g adept all in with an immortal or by doing a 7gate all in off 2 bases and hitting them around the 5:30 mark.
both of these strategies arent very powerful and a competent Z will crush me on this map :-/ i wouldnt say that I even pull 40% against Z on this map, but its a better choice than the others to me
I am diamond. judging from the rankings of my opponents i would say that its a mid diamond level
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I'm low-mid masters, and I vetoed ulnera, lerisak, and central.
I actually win pretty often vs zerg on prion terraces even after i give the zerg the 2 free gold base, and overall i have a 56% win rate on that map.
Ulnera there are so many cheeses I have to deal with and I'd just rather not play it. 30% win rate and too stressful
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What's the best unit composition to transition into in PvT if I'm on 3 bases, and have blink plus a couple oracles and lots of gateways? Previously I had just been using mass gateways to deny and significantly delay their third, but as I've moved up the ladder I'm finding that terrans are getting better at not overreacting to the oracles and going into marauder+tank earlier, which adepts and stalkers don't just cut it against. I'm thinking I'm too far away from disruptors, so I can't go that direction unless I'm prepared to go defensive, which isn't my style. I'm thinking high templar would be the best bet, but that also seems like a defensive move. Basically, I want something where if they secure a late third, I can use my composition to deny their fourth while securing mine. Should I just go adept+stalker+phoenix? Both phoenix and blink stalkers are high maintenance units so that seems like a lot of micro. It might be good for practice, but I'm not sure I could pull it off. What about chargelot+archon+phoenix?
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On January 17 2016 05:35 FlyingBeer wrote:
What's the best unit composition to transition into in PvT if I'm on 3 bases, and have blink plus a couple oracles and lots of gateways? Previously I had just been using mass gateways to deny and significantly delay their third, but as I've moved up the ladder I'm finding that terrans are getting better at not overreacting to the oracles and going into marauder+tank earlier, which adepts and stalkers don't just cut it against. I'm thinking I'm too far away from disruptors, so I can't go that direction unless I'm prepared to go defensive, which isn't my style. I'm thinking high templar would be the best bet, but that also seems like a defensive move. Basically, I want something where if they secure a late third, I can use my composition to deny their fourth while securing mine. Should I just go adept+stalker+phoenix? Both phoenix and blink stalkers are high maintenance units so that seems like a lot of micro. It might be good for practice, but I'm not sure I could pull it off. What about chargelot+archon+phoenix?
Chargelot archon phoenix is not a stable developed style. Not yet anyway.
You have two options.Something that is based on disruptor or something templar based.
If you go templar based you'll want to go greedy and get to 4 bases before he does. And deny his 4th. If his response is to turtle to get more libs, you tech to tempest and win. If he takes the fight, you put everything into it. But it's very important to fight around his 4th as terrans would fight around zergs 4th in HOTS.
I do not know how these timings work out with your opener, but I also think you are looking at it all wrong.
You like your opener, so you want to keep that, and you are wondering what to do afterwards. You want to look at it the other way around. Find out which end game army comp you like the best. Which style you like to play, and what type of control you are best at. After that you develop (or steal) different openers and adjust them to do the damage you want, and stay safe vs the openers T has. Then you steal or develop the best route into the and game army.
And by end game I do not mean ultra lategame. I mean the army you want at the time you want to take the main fight. Not that this is a set time in the game always, but in generel you'll have a timing to move out to win. This can be based on expansions, upgrades, opponents lib counts. These sorts of things. How he is playing.
Day9 did a show on this style of thinking. Which is what you see all pros do in games they all in. In hots you might see oracle, dt or blink opening. Into some sort of collosi - stalker death ball. With a few other units. You even saw a collosi drop opening into the same thing.
Find your main playstyle and try different ways of getting there.
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I veto lerilak, central and ulrena. (Although, maybe I will only veto Central, as I will go on to discuss)
I only veto ulrena because I am really bad at holding pylon rushes in PvP haha (So in tournaments I don't veto it against terran/zerg). Against Terran and Zerg it is a fine map. In PvZ if you wall with one pylon and photon overcharge it, it really cuts out a lot of zerg aggression, and then the map is perfectly fine: good for warp prisms!
Central I veto just because I think it is hard to take a third on that map. But, the games I have played on it, the zergs have been super aggressive and doing all ins. So if you play super safe you can just get ahead and take a later third. If you get close spawns, a 2 base all in is good to do also.
Lerilak, I don't know why I actually veto it. Playing on it yesterday (because I forgot to veto it on another account), and it was actually fine. Against Protoss and Terran it plays like a normal map, even a good map. Against zergs, it isn't as bad as everyone says. I was taking thirds at my usual time, delaying only by an extra gateway so that I could fully wall at the natural. The 4th base is pretty open so you want to put on some heavy 3 base aggression imo.
Why I don't veto dusk, ruins and orbital: They are fine maps like others have discussed.
Why I don't veto prion: Good map in PvP and PvT. For PvZ which everyone complains in... I don't find it that bad. Your own third base is a gold base, which fits perfectly into my chargelot immortal style. To hold timings you go up to 7 gates extremely quickly, and build a pylon wall. I go immortal, immortal then obs, so that when the timing usually hits I have 2 immortals, with a third on the way. On top of this you can take the high ground fourth very quickly, and the zerg can't deny it without placing lurkers underneath it (which can be dealt with).
So if they do a ling/ravager/roach/hydra timing (whatever the case is), if you hold it well you are in a good spot. You can take the 4th, and their gold bases are mining out. Gold bases mine out quicker than blue bases, so when you see them taking the natural as their 4th really quickly, and think you are behind, they still roughly have the same econ as you. Their tech also isn't good.
Then discussing the map layout. You can easily send chargelot counter attacks on the outer corridors while pushing down the middle. In my opinion you can also infinitely deny their outer 5/6th bases with counter attacks and warp prisms, while pushing down the middle. If they put defenses at the hatches, you can also just send your army there and recall. Moving warp prisms between the cliff of the main and third is a really strong aspect of the map for protoss as well.
These are just my opinions, and obviously if you don't want to play 2 base all ins, you can veto central, etc etc. But they are not bad maps, they require different playstyles and thinking on how to tackle the situation.
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do disruptors hurt your own units if it explodes on them?
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On January 17 2016 10:37 travis wrote:
do disruptors hurt your own units if it explodes on them?
Yes they do friendly fire. And if you know it from PvP, it is brutal T_T haha
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That's wild. They definitely made protoss micro intensive in LOTV, that's for sure. Even if bw you didn't have to aim the reavers unless you wanted to.
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On January 17 2016 10:16 mGGrinehart wrote:
I veto lerilak, central and ulrena. (Although, maybe I will only veto Central, as I will go on to discuss)
I only veto ulrena because I am really bad at holding pylon rushes in PvP haha (So in tournaments I don't veto it against terran/zerg). Against Terran and Zerg it is a fine map. In PvZ if you wall with one pylon and photon overcharge it, it really cuts out a lot of zerg aggression, and then the map is perfectly fine: good for warp prisms!
Central I veto just because I think it is hard to take a third on that map. But, the games I have played on it, the zergs have been super aggressive and doing all ins. So if you play super safe you can just get ahead and take a later third. If you get close spawns, a 2 base all in is good to do also.
Lerilak, I don't know why I actually veto it. Playing on it yesterday (because I forgot to veto it on another account), and it was actually fine. Against Protoss and Terran it plays like a normal map, even a good map. Against zergs, it isn't as bad as everyone says. I was taking thirds at my usual time, delaying only by an extra gateway so that I could fully wall at the natural. The 4th base is pretty open so you want to put on some heavy 3 base aggression imo.
Why I don't veto dusk, ruins and orbital: They are fine maps like others have discussed.
Why I don't veto prion: Good map in PvP and PvT. For PvZ which everyone complains in... I don't find it that bad. Your own third base is a gold base, which fits perfectly into my chargelot immortal style. To hold timings you go up to 7 gates extremely quickly, and build a pylon wall. I go immortal, immortal then obs, so that when the timing usually hits I have 2 immortals, with a third on the way. On top of this you can take the high ground fourth very quickly, and the zerg can't deny it without placing lurkers underneath it (which can be dealt with).
So if they do a ling/ravager/roach/hydra timing (whatever the case is), if you hold it well you are in a good spot. You can take the 4th, and their gold bases are mining out. Gold bases mine out quicker than blue bases, so when you see them taking the natural as their 4th really quickly, and think you are behind, they still roughly have the same econ as you. Their tech also isn't good.
Then discussing the map layout. You can easily send chargelot counter attacks on the outer corridors while pushing down the middle. In my opinion you can also infinitely deny their outer 5/6th bases with counter attacks and warp prisms, while pushing down the middle. If they put defenses at the hatches, you can also just send your army there and recall. Moving warp prisms between the cliff of the main and third is a really strong aspect of the map for protoss as well.
These are just my opinions, and obviously if you don't want to play 2 base all ins, you can veto central, etc etc. But they are not bad maps, they require different playstyles and thinking on how to tackle the situation.
I've been taking nat of one gate no core, and 3rd off 1 gate, 1 stargate on central. It's no problem to hold everything. Not if your build is crisp.
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On January 17 2016 11:08 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 10:16 mGGrinehart wrote:
I veto lerilak, central and ulrena. (Although, maybe I will only veto Central, as I will go on to discuss)
I only veto ulrena because I am really bad at holding pylon rushes in PvP haha (So in tournaments I don't veto it against terran/zerg). Against Terran and Zerg it is a fine map. In PvZ if you wall with one pylon and photon overcharge it, it really cuts out a lot of zerg aggression, and then the map is perfectly fine: good for warp prisms!
Central I veto just because I think it is hard to take a third on that map. But, the games I have played on it, the zergs have been super aggressive and doing all ins. So if you play super safe you can just get ahead and take a later third. If you get close spawns, a 2 base all in is good to do also.
Lerilak, I don't know why I actually veto it. Playing on it yesterday (because I forgot to veto it on another account), and it was actually fine. Against Protoss and Terran it plays like a normal map, even a good map. Against zergs, it isn't as bad as everyone says. I was taking thirds at my usual time, delaying only by an extra gateway so that I could fully wall at the natural. The 4th base is pretty open so you want to put on some heavy 3 base aggression imo.
Why I don't veto dusk, ruins and orbital: They are fine maps like others have discussed.
Why I don't veto prion: Good map in PvP and PvT. For PvZ which everyone complains in... I don't find it that bad. Your own third base is a gold base, which fits perfectly into my chargelot immortal style. To hold timings you go up to 7 gates extremely quickly, and build a pylon wall. I go immortal, immortal then obs, so that when the timing usually hits I have 2 immortals, with a third on the way. On top of this you can take the high ground fourth very quickly, and the zerg can't deny it without placing lurkers underneath it (which can be dealt with).
So if they do a ling/ravager/roach/hydra timing (whatever the case is), if you hold it well you are in a good spot. You can take the 4th, and their gold bases are mining out. Gold bases mine out quicker than blue bases, so when you see them taking the natural as their 4th really quickly, and think you are behind, they still roughly have the same econ as you. Their tech also isn't good.
Then discussing the map layout. You can easily send chargelot counter attacks on the outer corridors while pushing down the middle. In my opinion you can also infinitely deny their outer 5/6th bases with counter attacks and warp prisms, while pushing down the middle. If they put defenses at the hatches, you can also just send your army there and recall. Moving warp prisms between the cliff of the main and third is a really strong aspect of the map for protoss as well.
These are just my opinions, and obviously if you don't want to play 2 base all ins, you can veto central, etc etc. But they are not bad maps, they require different playstyles and thinking on how to tackle the situation.
I've been taking nat of one gate no core, and 3rd off 1 gate, 1 stargate on central. It's no problem to hold everything. Not if your build is crisp.
Yeah I agree, IF you get horizontal/cross spawns (Although really early ling roach/ravagers timings would be hard to keep the third against). Vertical spawns, there is no third for you to take  . But yea getting to two bases is no issue, it is an extremely easy wall at the natural.
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On January 17 2016 04:22 iMrising wrote:
I'm low-mid masters, and I vetoed ulnera, lerisak, and central.
I actually win pretty often vs zerg on prion terraces even after i give the zerg the 2 free gold base, and overall i have a 56% win rate on that map.
Ulnera there are so many cheeses I have to deal with and I'd just rather not play it. 30% win rate and too stressful
So why didn't you veto prion terraces (if that's the map with 2 gold bases that are very close)? I find it very annoying when zerg takes them as 2nd and 3rd base. You can cannon rush them but it doesn't work all the time.
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How do you guys open against terran? I usually do it with stargate i just feel safe with phoenixes against drops and defending against cyclones but i notice that i am susceptible to mine drops, plus its also difficult to transition into HT.. i dont really know i might be doing this wrong. Can you guys suggest what is the safest route to take?
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On January 17 2016 11:15 mGGrinehart wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 11:08 Mozdk wrote:On January 17 2016 10:16 mGGrinehart wrote:
I veto lerilak, central and ulrena. (Although, maybe I will only veto Central, as I will go on to discuss)
I only veto ulrena because I am really bad at holding pylon rushes in PvP haha (So in tournaments I don't veto it against terran/zerg). Against Terran and Zerg it is a fine map. In PvZ if you wall with one pylon and photon overcharge it, it really cuts out a lot of zerg aggression, and then the map is perfectly fine: good for warp prisms!
Central I veto just because I think it is hard to take a third on that map. But, the games I have played on it, the zergs have been super aggressive and doing all ins. So if you play super safe you can just get ahead and take a later third. If you get close spawns, a 2 base all in is good to do also.
Lerilak, I don't know why I actually veto it. Playing on it yesterday (because I forgot to veto it on another account), and it was actually fine. Against Protoss and Terran it plays like a normal map, even a good map. Against zergs, it isn't as bad as everyone says. I was taking thirds at my usual time, delaying only by an extra gateway so that I could fully wall at the natural. The 4th base is pretty open so you want to put on some heavy 3 base aggression imo.
Why I don't veto dusk, ruins and orbital: They are fine maps like others have discussed.
Why I don't veto prion: Good map in PvP and PvT. For PvZ which everyone complains in... I don't find it that bad. Your own third base is a gold base, which fits perfectly into my chargelot immortal style. To hold timings you go up to 7 gates extremely quickly, and build a pylon wall. I go immortal, immortal then obs, so that when the timing usually hits I have 2 immortals, with a third on the way. On top of this you can take the high ground fourth very quickly, and the zerg can't deny it without placing lurkers underneath it (which can be dealt with).
So if they do a ling/ravager/roach/hydra timing (whatever the case is), if you hold it well you are in a good spot. You can take the 4th, and their gold bases are mining out. Gold bases mine out quicker than blue bases, so when you see them taking the natural as their 4th really quickly, and think you are behind, they still roughly have the same econ as you. Their tech also isn't good.
Then discussing the map layout. You can easily send chargelot counter attacks on the outer corridors while pushing down the middle. In my opinion you can also infinitely deny their outer 5/6th bases with counter attacks and warp prisms, while pushing down the middle. If they put defenses at the hatches, you can also just send your army there and recall. Moving warp prisms between the cliff of the main and third is a really strong aspect of the map for protoss as well.
These are just my opinions, and obviously if you don't want to play 2 base all ins, you can veto central, etc etc. But they are not bad maps, they require different playstyles and thinking on how to tackle the situation.
I've been taking nat of one gate no core, and 3rd off 1 gate, 1 stargate on central. It's no problem to hold everything. Not if your build is crisp. Yeah I agree, IF you get horizontal/cross spawns (Although really early ling roach/ravagers timings would be hard to keep the third against). Vertical spawns, there is no third for you to take . But yea getting to two bases is no issue, it is an extremely easy wall at the natural.
I realize that I mixed up the names of two maps. I did not mean the same map as you are talking about. Sorry about that.
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On January 17 2016 17:58 ThreeLilpigs wrote:
How do you guys open against terran? I usually do it with stargate i just feel safe with phoenixes against drops and defending against cyclones but i notice that i am susceptible to mine drops, plus its also difficult to transition into HT.. i dont really know i might be doing this wrong. Can you guys suggest what is the safest route to take?
I open as greedy as I can while being able to respond and defend anything.
It looks like this:
http://www.twitch.tv/lycangtv/v/35133910
(game one)
But it's VERY crisp. If you are 30 seconds late on templar archives, you are often fucked.
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Has anyone thought about how they would play post adept and PO nerf? For me I spent a lot of time trying to open without using adept pressure and eventually gave up. Now I'm really not sure how to open.
PvT - i feel like an adept drop is the only thing stopping terrans from walking across the map with their first liberator and just sit themselves at your 3rd (if your expanding) or your nat to stop you going anywhere.
PvZ - Adepts is what stops them from making 60 drones and no units. Also the PO is what is used to defend the fast 3rd.
Just looking for ideas that can be tried if anyone has any or even thought about it.
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EPT
