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On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever.....  I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained.
Carriers are the counter to Lurkers??
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Any good VODs to watch to catch up with protoss builds in all match-ups?
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Hello all, I am trying to get back into LoTV and playing protoss. I'm starting out as a bronze again but wondering if there would be any overall general builds I should be working on? Thank you.
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How can anybody be happy in PvZ. I've never had so much trouble in 1 matchup. Better yet I've never had so much trouble just trying to expand.... I really hope something changes soon.
If you can't expand just leave the game I guess right? This is just ridiculous...
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 13 2016 06:21 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever..... I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained. Carriers are the counter to Lurkers??
I'm pretty sure carriers are the counter to everything. I say this as a GM protoss.
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On January 13 2016 12:22 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 06:21 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever..... I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained. Carriers are the counter to Lurkers?? I'm pretty sure carriers are the counter to everything. I say this as a GM protoss.
So how do you deal with Lurkers then?
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I neve saw streamers or pro going carriers in pvz. The build time in huge and before reaching a decent number u just got killed. Even if u are 200/200 carriers, zerg has lots of counters like vipers, corruptors and mutas.
I was used to templar carrier compo in hots, It doesnt work in lotv unless zerg il really bad.
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On January 13 2016 09:13 Shield wrote:
Any good VODs to watch to catch up with protoss builds in all match-ups?
I would check out the NWIII replay pack, there's a fair amount of Protoss play there. Also, Code A has some Protoss matches coming up. Possibly SSL? But I'm not sure what the bracket for the RO16 is in SSL, so there might not be much Protoss play.
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On January 13 2016 15:10 Icekin wrote:
I neve saw streamers or pro going carriers in pvz. The build time in huge and before reaching a decent number u just got killed. Even if u are 200/200 carriers, zerg has lots of counters like vipers, corruptors and mutas.
I was used to templar carrier compo in hots, It doesnt work in lotv unless zerg il really bad.
I think Carriers are actually pretty necessary with some Tempests and HTs/Archons in the late game. With the current meta, I think it's quite rare that one gets to that point while staying safe, but Carriers really are very good against Zerg if you can reach them with a good economy, a huge amount of gates to reinforce, and good upgrades.
In the mid/early late game, I think Chargelots/Archons/HTs/Immortals/a few disruptors is a good comp to deal with Lurkers. Disruptors can really fuck up a pack of Lurkers, Archons can tank a lot of shots, and Immortals are quite good against the Roach/Ravager backup that often comes with Lurkers. Storm with High Templar seems to only be applicable if they have Mutas/Hydras coming along with their Lurker force.
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On January 14 2016 03:02 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 09:13 Shield wrote:
Any good VODs to watch to catch up with protoss builds in all match-ups? I would check out the NWIII replay pack, there's a fair amount of Protoss play there. Also, Code A has some Protoss matches coming up. Possibly SSL? But I'm not sure what the bracket for the RO16 is in SSL, so there might not be much Protoss play.
Could you give a link to NWIII replay pack please? I've not followed pro scene in a long time.
Edit: Found it. It's actually easy to find it.
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On January 14 2016 03:07 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 15:10 Icekin wrote:
I neve saw streamers or pro going carriers in pvz. The build time in huge and before reaching a decent number u just got killed. Even if u are 200/200 carriers, zerg has lots of counters like vipers, corruptors and mutas.
I was used to templar carrier compo in hots, It doesnt work in lotv unless zerg il really bad. I think Carriers are actually pretty necessary with some Tempests and HTs/Archons in the late game. With the current meta, I think it's quite rare that one gets to that point while staying safe, but Carriers really are very good against Zerg if you can reach them with a good economy, a huge amount of gates to reinforce, and good upgrades. In the mid/early late game, I think Chargelots/Archons/HTs/Immortals/a few disruptors is a good comp to deal with Lurkers. Disruptors can really fuck up a pack of Lurkers, Archons can tank a lot of shots, and Immortals are quite good against the Roach/Ravager backup that often comes with Lurkers. Storm with High Templar seems to only be applicable if they have Mutas/Hydras coming along with their Lurker force.
Carriers and Colossus are almost auto lose against zerg, players have tried to make the colossus work by getting range upgrade and then trying to micro it against lurkers but it takes too long, disruptors are more efficient. The reason why you do not get carriers is because of parasitic bomb, same for colossus, parasitic bomb will end up killing your observers with the splash damage and deal damage to your colossus along with your interceptors. The same unit, viper, with blinding cloud forces the colossus to walk to the front of the army, and abduct is much easier to land against carriers because of their launch range.
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On January 13 2016 13:42 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 12:22 T.O.P. wrote:On January 13 2016 06:21 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever..... I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained. Carriers are the counter to Lurkers?? I'm pretty sure carriers are the counter to everything. I say this as a GM protoss. So how do you deal with Lurkers then?
Oracles to reveal with revelation, disruptors even if you do not have vision, and immortals work very well against them.
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On January 14 2016 08:30 DanceSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 13:42 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 13 2016 12:22 T.O.P. wrote:On January 13 2016 06:21 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever..... I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained. Carriers are the counter to Lurkers?? I'm pretty sure carriers are the counter to everything. I say this as a GM protoss. So how do you deal with Lurkers then? Oracles to reveal with revelation, disruptors even if you do not have vision, and immortals work very well against them.
I've been trying that. It doesn't matter because you can't attack directly into them unless you have air-toss.
Right now, for me, if they get Lurkers the game is over.
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On January 14 2016 10:36 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 08:30 DanceSC wrote:On January 13 2016 13:42 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 13 2016 12:22 T.O.P. wrote:On January 13 2016 06:21 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:On January 11 2016 09:23 [PkF] Wire wrote:On January 11 2016 08:50 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:So what is the counter do lurkers? No ground units??? The only thing I see people do is disruptors, but I don't understand how they know where to shoot. You just fire it blindly, how do you know where the lurker is?? Is there a nerf of anything coming soon because I find lurkers the most OP thing ever..... I thought so too, I was going carriers every game and it didn't work well. It can look silly, but immortal chargelot archons is actually incredibly good against lurkers if they try to attack you. And if they don't, you harass with chargelots/DTs + WP while building up carriers + HTs. Check Probe's thread on PvZ (basically 5 phoenix harass into chargelot immortal archons) which is pretty awesome : detailed and very well explained. Carriers are the counter to Lurkers?? I'm pretty sure carriers are the counter to everything. I say this as a GM protoss. So how do you deal with Lurkers then? Oracles to reveal with revelation, disruptors even if you do not have vision, and immortals work very well against them. I've been trying that. It doesn't matter because you can't attack directly into them unless you have air-toss. Right now, for me, if they get Lurkers the game is over.
As it was with siege tanks, your best play is forcing the lurkers to unburrow by attacking around the map. Then you can cause sadness with disruptor/storm/what have you.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 13 2016 15:10 Icekin wrote:
I neve saw streamers or pro going carriers in pvz. The build time in huge and before reaching a decent number u just got killed. Even if u are 200/200 carriers, zerg has lots of counters like vipers, corruptors and mutas.
I was used to templar carrier compo in hots, It doesnt work in lotv unless zerg il really bad.
http://lotv.spawningtool.com/9384/
I can't disagree more.
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On January 14 2016 13:12 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2016 15:10 Icekin wrote:
I neve saw streamers or pro going carriers in pvz. The build time in huge and before reaching a decent number u just got killed. Even if u are 200/200 carriers, zerg has lots of counters like vipers, corruptors and mutas.
I was used to templar carrier compo in hots, It doesnt work in lotv unless zerg il really bad. http://lotv.spawningtool.com/9384/I can't disagree more.
Thanks for rep will check it back from work
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just checked the replay.
I also think carriers are not useful in pvz. Pig went hydra corruptors and didnt harassed in early game. That build kinda loose to any timing and to vipers in late game.
When I tried carriers in pvz zerg just pull my carriers on spores or hydras or use PB on them.
Maybe if there are more replays I could change idea...
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On January 13 2016 09:13 Shield wrote:
Any good VODs to watch to catch up with protoss builds in all match-ups?
check out some of the vods from the GSL preason 2016. myungsik has been bringin some really cool builds to the table
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So its my understanding Lurkers are like the mass Muta switch. If you are not ready for them beforehand, you lose?
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On January 16 2016 14:09 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
So its my understanding Lurkers are like the mass Muta switch. If you are not ready for them beforehand, you lose?
No, lurkers are not a "switch". They just filled the role of old SwarmHost: stupid passive units that requires little skill investment to deal huge damage. In every game you will see lurkers in action, they are just to good to not make them.
You can see them in an early timing wich most of time it's a loose for protoss, or you can see them in mid-late game in the roach/hydra/lurker composition.
As suggested above, chargelot/immortal/archons works well vs this composition (but It still depends on how much damage you did in early with adepts/phoenixs).Usually it's the broodlord switch that kills you in late game.
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EPT
