EPT[G] How to mech in TvP: A youtube series! - Page 6
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 23 2015 14:46 Bodzilla wrote: The koreans dont know everything. It's important to remember infestor broodlord and mass SH where a foreign zerg invention Certainly true. I'm still hoping to see this in Proleague/Korean leagues so we can see some potential weaknesses at the highest level of play | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On June 23 2015 15:08 Alucen-Will- wrote: Certainly true. I'm still hoping to see this in Proleague/Korean leagues so we can see some potential weaknesses at the highest level of play herO kinda killed the mech in TvP movement in SPL yesterday e: sorry, just saw that there was already talk about that game | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On June 23 2015 19:23 Alucen-Will- wrote: I think these Korean progamers browse Team Liquid..GuMiho is meching against zest as we speak :d 2nd nail in 2 days though | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On June 23 2015 19:23 Alucen-Will- wrote: I think these Korean progamers browse Team Liquid..GuMiho is meching against zest as we speak :d gumiho is an idiot, his build  timing wasnt good, opener wasnt good, unit comp wasnèt good... hero vs yoda was cool game, hero played extremely well. Yoda was kind of fukt though from his opener and hero was just ahead from the opener and capitalized on the situation. I think the build that i do with double starport is effective at dealing vs warp prism harass and immortal drops because of the daunting viking banshee fleet you get, but yoda just had siege tanks and widow mines were too late rip | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
You can of course be out-multi tasked our out-positioned but I have never lost against a Protoss that did not outplay me, something I can not say for traditional mech where it is very easy to lose even if you are better then your opponent. | ||
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AzureKnight
United States25 Posts
One thing that i've noticed even at very high levels (korean pros) in regard to the chargelot/immortal/archon composition is that many protoss players seem to neglect splitting up their army and taking engagements from multiple angles. You posted a screenshot of a protoss player locked into their base behind infinity defensive buildings and tanks, but in my own humble experience (i am a diamond player) taking your army into your base against this kind of style is effectively suicide. Have you had a lot of experiences with protoss players who spread out with their more mobile army and collapse in from multiple directions? How well does your tank hellbat timing hold up against it? Additionally, I agree 100% that protoss armies are very underequipped to fight head on against an ultra-late game BC composition. How do you handle a protoss player who does a remax on blink stalkers and aggressively tries to base trade you? | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
You may think that immortal chargelot archon attacking into THAT many tanks and bunkers is suicide, but protoss players that literally just maxed out on 2 base where able to build an army strong enough to bust through. It has to be one of the dumbest things in the game when you watch it happen. It's basically why the blink vid took longer then the others to come out, because i had to re-write the strategy in the mid and the late game. I dont wanna promote bad strategy's if i can help it  Anyway so theres some confusion among the vids. The tank hellbat timing is only for robo openings, where vs blink you do a massive amount of hellions and take map control, each scenario has it's own tailored response to each opening, mid game and lategame. If you tried to do a tank push into a twilight opening where they go into immortals and chargelot unless your INSANELY far ahead you can just lose everything. The next vid will show how we can go toe to toe with that army though so you'll love it~ Protoss should never base trade vs terran, because our buildings can fly If it comes to it, i'll literally float my buildings with my army and just keep a moving around the map, nothing induce's tears quite like doing that to someone | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 25 2015 00:03 Bodzilla wrote: Well the reason i didn't make the blink video with that aggressive contain was because it worked SUPER good on ladder, but after about 10 hours of practice with protoss players who became more and more confortable in that position it became less and less effective. You may think that immortal chargelot archon attacking into THAT many tanks and bunkers is suicide, but protoss players that literally just maxed out on 2 base where able to build an army strong enough to bust through. It has to be one of the dumbest things in the game when you watch it happen. It's basically why the blink vid took longer then the others to come out, because i had to re-write the strategy in the mid and the late game. I dont wanna promote bad strategy's if i can help it Anyway so theres some confusion among the vids. The tank hellbat timing is only for robo openings, where vs blink you do a massive amount of hellions and take map control, each scenario has it's own tailored response to each opening, mid game and lategame. If you tried to do a tank push into a twilight opening where they go into immortals and chargelot unless your INSANELY far ahead you can just lose everything. The next vid will show how we can go toe to toe with that army though so you'll love it~ Protoss should never base trade vs terran, because our buildings can fly If it comes to it, i'll literally float my buildings with my army and just keep a moving around the map, nothing induce's tears quite like doing that to someone Regarding potential vulnerabilities, does a mech opening provide enough gas off 2 base to prevent things like immortal drops or even wackier things like a colossus drop? I'm just trying to find holes in this composition..hm. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On June 25 2015 00:03 Bodzilla wrote: Well the reason i didn't make the blink video with that aggressive contain was because it worked SUPER good on ladder, but after about 10 hours of practice with protoss players who became more and more confortable in that position it became less and less effective. You may think that immortal chargelot archon attacking into THAT many tanks and bunkers is suicide, but protoss players that literally just maxed out on 2 base where able to build an army strong enough to bust through. It has to be one of the dumbest things in the game when you watch it happen. It's basically why the blink vid took longer then the others to come out, because i had to re-write the strategy in the mid and the late game. I dont wanna promote bad strategy's if i can help it Anyway so theres some confusion among the vids. The tank hellbat timing is only for robo openings, where vs blink you do a massive amount of hellions and take map control, each scenario has it's own tailored response to each opening, mid game and lategame. If you tried to do a tank push into a twilight opening where they go into immortals and chargelot unless your INSANELY far ahead you can just lose everything. The next vid will show how we can go toe to toe with that army though so you'll love it~ Protoss should never base trade vs terran, because our buildings can fly If it comes to it, i'll literally float my buildings with my army and just keep a moving around the map, nothing induce's tears quite like doing that to someone Ok but what if you make mines instead of hellbats? The bonus damage vs shields synergize so well with tanks splash. Hellbat/tank need ghost in this situation, but you cannot afford ghost. 3 mines cost less than 1 ghost and mass mines make it really cost-inefficient to charge into tanks. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On June 25 2015 03:53 Alucen-Will- wrote: Regarding potential vulnerabilities, does a mech opening provide enough gas off 2 base to prevent things like immortal drops or even wackier things like a colossus drop? I'm just trying to find holes in this composition..hm. my double port banshee opener seems to shut down warp prism harass relatively easily because banshees well....are awesome haha | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:33 EJK wrote: my double port banshee opener seems to shut down warp prism harass relatively easily because banshees well....are awesome haha I always felt Banshee openers were very weak in TvP for obvious reasons (2/3 of the protoss tech openings have detection). Furthermore, can a protoss not just respond with phoenix/colossus/immortal w/maybe warp prism zealot harass support? As is it, Blink Stalkers are pretty good against banshee's I thought. | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 25 2015 07:33 EJK wrote: my double port banshee opener seems to shut down warp prism harass relatively easily because banshees well....are awesome haha Modern TvT/TvZ in Korea would tell you that banshee's are an amazing unit. Almost too cost-efficient sometimes | ||
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AzureKnight
United States25 Posts
On June 25 2015 08:17 Alucen-Will- wrote: I always felt Banshee openers were very weak in TvP for obvious reasons (2/3 of the protoss tech openings have detection). Furthermore, can a protoss not just respond with phoenix/colossus/immortal w/maybe warp prism zealot harass support? As is it, Blink Stalkers are pretty good against banshee's I thought. Stalkers are extremely mediocre against banshees. There's just usually a lot more stalkers than banshees when they meet. | ||
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 25 2015 09:03 AzureKnight wrote: Stalkers are extremely mediocre against banshees. There's just usually a lot more stalkers than banshees when they meet. Hm. I would think the warpgate mechanic + blink + split army/ground upgrades for terran would make them fairly good in the macro game against banshee based compositions. Banshee's are quite fragile and not all that fast | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
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Alucen-Will-
United States4054 Posts
On June 25 2015 09:48 Bodzilla wrote: they're also invisible and have a higher DPS then a Battlecruiser. I'm thinking Banshee's would be best in TvP as a part of a 1 or 2 base all-in or as a part of a latergame comp with viking/raven support etc. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
I like to get a compositional advantage and use it to hit timings, counter openings and then transition into the ultimate deathball army. EJK instead likes to get economical advantage and take trades with fast 4 base's. In this scenario the banshee's are much more powerful because the protoss isn't getting as established and the more pressure he puts on them delays storm and other good ways of dealing with banshees. | ||
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LastPoet
Canada11 Posts
1) When your scouting with your first scv, you pull off the ebay block and you scout one gas, do you ever steal the other gas? I've done it a few times and its nice because it really restricts the toss players options, often he just goes into a 4gate which is not too hard to hold off if you see it coming. 2) a lot of the responsiveness of the build comes down to the scan at the 6 minute mark, but what the toss player puts his tech in a sneaky location and you don't catch it in the scan? I feel like if this style ever hypothetically picked up steam and toss players got more used to seeing it they would eventually adapt by just hiding their tech, because there's a lot riding on the 6 minute scan. Thanks! | ||
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