EPT[G] TvP Hammer Build, Crushing Protoss - Page 4
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On March 22 2014 09:13 hfsrj wrote: Tried it. Can really throw a toss of guard on a small map. I did the push with 2 mines to be sure I could 1-shot a mc, and killed an awfull lot of probes (but no mc). This is a great factory opener ! Thanks for the feedback! Good luck with the build :D | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
1. Double proxy gateway in your natural. The zealots are in your main killing workers long before you get your maurader out. 2. Proxy oracle. If you use your first 2 widow mines to attack your SCVs are dead long before the third mine pops out. If you use the second widow mine to defend your mineral line instead of attacking with it, you survive the oracle but the attack is much weaker. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On March 23 2014 15:51 MockHamill wrote: I do not understand how you get the build to work. I have tried it several time without any wins. For instance, I have died to 1. Double proxy gateway in your natural. The zealots are in your main killing workers long before you get your maurader out. 2. Proxy oracle. If you use your first 2 widow mines to attack your SCVs are dead long before the third mine pops out. If you use the second widow mine to defend your mineral line instead of attacking with it, you survive the oracle but the attack is much weaker. 1. By placing your initial building strategically for vision, this kind of play is rarely an issue. Many times I have seen "scouts", that are far too early, but not prox/cannon cheese due to my vision. I'm assuming you didn't build this way? 2. Proxy oracle is not a problem as long as you pull your workers asap, and get the next widow mine on the path you are pulling the workers or safely in the mineral line. It's also important to keep pressuring at the Protoss base. You are welcome to post the replays, and I can go over areas where you can improve. Cheers. | ||
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DaveSprite
United States79 Posts
I've been kinda winging the build after the initial push, was wondering if you could help me refine it. I wind up winning the game but it felt pretty close at the time. http://drop.sc/377388 Thanks! | ||
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Sircoolguy
United States81 Posts
@dUTrOACh Hammer could say this better but when I have ran this build if I suspect oracles I leave the first mine and rally the second one to my marauders. Sure it isn't as potent but he won't have as much ground army since he invested into oracles. Warp Prisms aren't bad since you can crank out vikings and are only on two base so there is less to harass. As for DT's if it is one base DT then you should have the ebay up already to make turrets. Not sure about 2 base DT's yet. | ||
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Sircoolguy
United States81 Posts
I recently dealt with a proxy 2 gate in my nat. First off, I built the first depot in a wall off position and my rax close to my CC, or away from the wall. I sent the worker that was building my first depot to P base to check gas for all in timings. What I did was abandon the build and wall off with depots and build marines. When I noticed the 2 gates I took guys off gas, then when I had the minerals to build the factory I built mines to help with the zealots. Since the P also built stalkers behind the zealot push, I went for a pretty cheesey 2 rax 1 fact 1 port stim push since I was pretty backed up into my main. It seems like the response should work for most gas first TvP openers if you scout a natural proxy 2 gate. Not sure if it works all the time but maybe an idea. | ||
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FrogsAreDogs
Canada181 Posts
-sending mothership core straight away to terran's base. Since msc take two widow mine shots to kill, it can do quite a bit of harassment. -proxy oracles and having good oracle control. Since one mine can't cover the entire mineral line, if protoss micros well and stays out of range, the oracle can do quite a bit of dmg. Altho my build consisted of an earlier nat and a much earlier 2 base all in. In your main post you said the MAIN ATTACK is at 14-15minutes. That feels like such a late time to overwhelm the protoss with superior army supply. If you can go mech and get ghost and viking for the main attack, then I think you are simply outplaying your opponent. Ofc, I'm also curious as to how this build will work vs top master/gm protosses because in my experience once the protoss has the game sense to do the stuff mentioned above, the build gets shutdown. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
 I've used this build with crazy success I've been able to defend Blink stalker / 2 Gate proxy / proxy oracle amongst other things. I love this build because it is the only build i know that forces toss to play honest and can delay his expansion long enough for you to put yours up and force an overcharge so you wind up being massively ahead in the mid game.... I'm currently like 8-2 with this build... the first loss was my first time trying it mostly because I was a little wrapped around my own thoughts on the flow on how it should go so I lost tempo and lost. The other loss was because I didn't put an turret up at front because I thought I scouted enough and turns out proxy DT after Proxy oracle is OP Which both of those were my failings but this build has serious potential and tbh I don't go into mech midgame I powerhouse my Bio because I can bio really good mid game | ||
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On March 24 2014 11:53 Sircoolguy wrote: Hey, Hammer! I have been running this build for a bit and love it. I have mech'd a lot before but took a 3 base approach which worked decently. My question is, if the main attack only goes OK, in the sense that you did not do critical damage ( maybe kill a 3rd or had to retreat after killing his army due to warp ins ) what should I do. I have tried to exapnd but it seemed pointless since it would be pretty late and I would be behind on upgrades (I get +1 weapons but still should be behind a bit compared to the P). I was thinking maybe to attack again with scv pull and just commit to an all in. @dUTrOACh Hammer could say this better but when I have ran this build if I suspect oracles I leave the first mine and rally the second one to my marauders. Sure it isn't as potent but he won't have as much ground army since he invested into oracles. Warp Prisms aren't bad since you can crank out vikings and are only on two base so there is less to harass. As for DT's if it is one base DT then you should have the ebay up already to make turrets. Not sure about 2 base DT's yet. On March 26 2014 22:10 Pirfiktshon wrote: Hammer! You are the man I've used this build with crazy success I've been able to defend Blink stalker / 2 Gate proxy / proxy oracle amongst other things. I love this build because it is the only build i know that forces toss to play honest and can delay his expansion long enough for you to put yours up and force an overcharge so you wind up being massively ahead in the mid game.... I'm currently like 8-2 with this build... the first loss was my first time trying it mostly because I was a little wrapped around my own thoughts on the flow on how it should go so I lost tempo and lost. The other loss was because I didn't put an turret up at front because I thought I scouted enough and turns out proxy DT after Proxy oracle is OP Which both of those were my failings but this build has serious potential and tbh I don't go into mech midgame I powerhouse my Bio because I can bio really good mid game Awesome guys, really nice to hear. I'm still having great success with the build, getting close to 2000 points in the Master League. | ||
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burningPurple
Norway76 Posts
So fun to do, and perform! I copy you pretty much down to the tee, initial depot placements and turrets later for denying observers in main. I think I'm 9-3 with the build. One time I died to proxy oracle, but imho it's shut down pretty hard if you scout it. I'm going to rally my 2nd mine to the mineral line next time I scout proxy oracle. As long as you kite, you should still be able to do some light harassment with your 1 mine and 2/3 marauders until the 3rd mine joins in to be able to kill the MSC. The second time I died the protoss countered me basically the same way SatedSC2 would. He built a cannon at the top of his ramp and forcefielded 2/4 marauders out when I tried to push up. Would you save your mines for the main push if you saw this response? If he has cannons up to defend the earlypush, the 12 min mine drop shouldn't be attempted, right? The third time I died to a 1-base immortalbust. @~9 minutes he had 2 immortals, some sentries and a buncha stalkers. What would you do if you had scouted this sort of push? At most I guess you would have 4 marauders, some mines and a tank. Seemed reeeally hard to hold, I guess I would have to pull all my scvs or abandon the natural or something. Would post replays if I knew how to :D | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On March 14 2014 19:31 Probemicro wrote: "But I wouldn't play this build against a Protoss that plays safe." dont think many protoss does that in ladder these days XD Is your protoss opponent building a msc? Then he's playing safe. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On March 15 2014 04:51 -Hammer- wrote: Good questions. I have no problems against proxy oracle. The key is pulling the workers off the line asap, waypointing them somewhere and back to the minerals, and putting a widow mine in the path. Most Protoss will lose the Oracle to this. If not, get the mine in your mineral line, and proceed to damage Protoss at their base as much as possible. Most one base plays by Protoss do not do well as the initial push pressures at a weak timing for them - and provides a lot of information for what Protoss is doing. DT play can be tough, but there is a scan available around 6:30, and usually I'm already working on missile turrets, if there is no expansion/late expansion. Well executed proxy gateways can be hard (that's why I build to have good vision in my base). Try the build, you won't be disappointed, If you need help with it, feel free to add me online. Cheers. Any oracle defense that is solely based on mines is doomed versus good players. | ||
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Malhavoc
Italy308 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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EseNcEIncubus
Canada39 Posts
Just curious if you've faced this and how you've delt with it. | ||
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protosskappa
13 Posts
11 gas marauder mine starport expand bio | ||
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-Hammer-
Canada107 Posts
On March 28 2014 00:38 Malhavoc wrote: What composition do you aim at if Toss goes for a sky build (void rays mainly)? Do you abandon the mech transition, going for a standard m&m composition with marines, or stick with mech, using more mines and vikings, and maybe even thor? Typically I switch to Thors, instead of Tanks, and add a Starport. Alternatively you can play a macro style long game on scouting air production. | ||
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