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On April 11 2014 18:36 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 08:16 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
But, the build is strong.. and if I am desprate for cheese ... I use your build, and get easy wins probably 1/3 of the time, I am uncertain how you are able to keep winning over 50% of the time .. at first the build won me 4-5 games in a row.. but the better players i play the less often i win.
I would love to see some recent replays of you "crushing" masterportoss who don't let you get an "easy win" .. *conditions stated above.
You fail to realize that ladder is best of 1. Most protoss nowadays will go for the 2 base blink all in(like myself on yeonsu vs hammer),proxy Oracle, or some other type of cheesy shannenegan. Not everybody plays completely safe and knows the appropriate response to this build because it's their first time playing against it. It's the same scenario as nanis 1 gate expo into 4 gate he introduced in 2012 vs drg in gsl. As a result hammer will win a majority of his wins. If Hammer where to play duckdeok and duckdeok would 2 base blink all in no scout. Hammer would win no matter how godlike duckdeoks micro is because it's a build order win. It's just how ladder works. There is absolutely no reason not to scout if you're doing a 2 Base Blink All-In... Your overall point is correct, though. This is a strong build on ladder because it is a wonky build that most people won't have seen before, and so most people won't know the correct response. This means that Hammer will get a lot of wins with it in the short-term because he'll still be meeting people who haven't seen it before, but that win-rate will quickly drop-off once more and more people become aware of the build. It took me literally one game to work out the correct response, so I'm pretty sure a pro-player who scouted this opening occurring (Terran can't prevent the scout) would figure it out more-or-less on the fly...
Lol.. you haven't played me or someone who knows how to pull it off correctly and respond to different situations. Even with you knowing exactly what I'm doing I would likely win or give you a run for your money. You seem obsessed with this build lol, funny the things people get hung up on. The build is highly effective, and I have received a lot of positive feedback from GM players much better than you. Cheers 
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As long as he scouts well, sees what you're doing, and camps his MSC, and whatever units he has (hopefully he drops a second gate and/or has an SG making voids or oracles), then it's over. He made units, sure, but so did you, and he has a safe nat, so he's way ahead of you. Chances are he won't scout your drop with the widows, but chances are it won't do much damage, as in my experience, against players with any sense of control (a lot of diamond and masters protoss don't), he just pulls his workers when he sees it, pops an obs (hopefully he already has one at this point 7ish minutes in) and he holds. And at this point the game is over.
Not to mention, any kind of extremely aggressive stargate opening, like gas first, and he's going to have that oracle in your base before you probably reach his with your push, so it basically becomes a base trade at this point, where he has the advantage of detection against your widow mines and the option to pull workers and kill your 3 measly marauders.
Basically, this build is so wonky, I'm confident any kind of scouting and you will lose 9/10 games. Not to mention, this also relies on him expecting you to transition into bio, if for some reason, idk, he has half a brain and again scouts you, he sees mech, and again, he's not an idiot, he starts making void rays or blink stalkers, lots of them, and then your big bad mech push gets dumped on.
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On April 11 2014 02:08 Fen1kz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 14:34 MrBarryObama wrote:
Really cool build!
But I've watched the first two games you posted, and in both games you bm your opponent. this makes this guide even better. saying bad things to toss is not a bm
One of my favourite posts on this thread :D
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I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in.
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On April 13 2014 00:27 xRiotZx wrote:
I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in.
The composition still works well in HOTS, but requires a different opening. Cheers 
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On April 13 2014 02:47 -Hammer- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 00:27 xRiotZx wrote:
I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in. The composition still works well in HOTS, but requires a different opening. Cheers
I don't think you got the point, I'm saying your build is bad and there are better 2 base alternatives.
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On April 14 2014 04:15 xRiotZx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 02:47 -Hammer- wrote:On April 13 2014 00:27 xRiotZx wrote:
I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in. The composition still works well in HOTS, but requires a different opening. Cheers I don't think you got the point, I'm saying your build is bad and there are better 2 base alternatives.
Oh, then I don't care :D
On April 14 2014 04:36 morbidmuffin wrote:
Great build!
Thanks!
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On April 14 2014 06:29 -Hammer- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 04:15 xRiotZx wrote:On April 13 2014 02:47 -Hammer- wrote:On April 13 2014 00:27 xRiotZx wrote:
I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in. The composition still works well in HOTS, but requires a different opening. Cheers I don't think you got the point, I'm saying your build is bad and there are better 2 base alternatives. Oh, then I don't care :D Thanks!
Did you make that account just to comment on your own thread and say "Great build!" :\
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On April 22 2014 16:41 xRiotZx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 06:29 -Hammer- wrote:On April 14 2014 04:15 xRiotZx wrote:On April 13 2014 02:47 -Hammer- wrote:On April 13 2014 00:27 xRiotZx wrote:
I feel like this is a half ass version of the Thor Hammer All In, I mean, you call it "The Hammer All In"
For those of you who may not know the Thor Hammer was a 2 base timing where you maxed out on thors, marines and banshees with cloak at about 14 minutes and pushed with +1 plating on mech and +1 atk on bio. With the combined mech upgrades I think it would be wise for people to look into this build again, if they're looking for a 2 base all in. The composition still works well in HOTS, but requires a different opening. Cheers I don't think you got the point, I'm saying your build is bad and there are better 2 base alternatives. Oh, then I don't care :D On April 14 2014 04:36 morbidmuffin wrote:
Great build! Thanks! Did you make that account just to comment on your own thread and say "Great build!" :\
Haha no, that would be pretty sad. You'll notice all the other positive feedback, thanks ;D
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hi, i used to post in the bnet forums since hammer is popular there. i just want to say that this build does work and i've beaten a ton of high masters players with it. the only issue i have is that sometimes my opponents will open with phoenixes and will just lift up the widow mines in the pressure push (beginning of the game)
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On April 24 2014 01:42 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 00:45 tmh wrote:
hi, i used to post in the bnet forums since hammer is popular there. i just want to say that this build does work and i've beaten a ton of high masters players with it. the only issue i have is that sometimes my opponents will open with phoenixes and will just lift up the widow mines in the pressure push (beginning of the game) Another 1 post user, this time with a mitigating statement. Not suspicious at all xD
Not to mention hammer is a previously banned user. Mods already know, and said it was a year or two ago and as long as he behaves he will get around the perma ban he had placed on him.
We should go through his old account, and post the great things he's said.
Just since his ban he has like 3-4 single post then closed threads. Guy LOVES to make threads apparently lol
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Hey Hammer, I really like this build and I'm trying to master it, I think it still needs some refinement. My question is: Have you experimented with another transicion?, I was thinking in a Sky-Terran Mid-Late game after the 4 mine drop.
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On April 24 2014 06:20 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 01:42 SatedSC2 wrote:On April 24 2014 00:45 tmh wrote:
hi, i used to post in the bnet forums since hammer is popular there. i just want to say that this build does work and i've beaten a ton of high masters players with it. the only issue i have is that sometimes my opponents will open with phoenixes and will just lift up the widow mines in the pressure push (beginning of the game) Another 1 post user, this time with a mitigating statement. Not suspicious at all xD Not to mention hammer is a previously banned user. Mods already know, and said it was a year or two ago and as long as he behaves he will get around the perma ban he had placed on him. We should go through his old account, and post the great things he's said. Just since his ban he has like 3-4 single post then closed threads. Guy LOVES to make threads apparently lol
you know if you have that mentality, you just assumed that everyone is a potential serial killer just because they have a 1 on their face
User was banned for this post. (Previously banned User, not specifically banned for this post)
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On April 24 2014 00:45 tmh wrote:
hi, i used to post in the bnet forums since hammer is popular there. i just want to say that this build does work and i've beaten a ton of high masters players with it. the only issue i have is that sometimes my opponents will open with phoenixes and will just lift up the widow mines in the pressure push (beginning of the game)
What's your user name on Battlenet? Glad you're having some success with the build! :D
On April 24 2014 11:57 KaiserCommander wrote:
Hey Hammer, I really like this build and I'm trying to master it, I think it still needs some refinement. My question is: Have you experimented with another transicion?, I was thinking in a Sky-Terran Mid-Late game after the 4 mine drop.
Cheers, I have not gone too far off course. Sometimes I open with 2 marines, 2 maraud, 2 wm for initial pressure though. You can def go to macro style, as long as you are scouting well and identifying what the toss player is doing. Good luck :D
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My personal feedback on this build (low master).
Strong first attack with the 3 maraud 2 mines but OPcharge can nullify this on many new maps. The mine drop cannot succeed afterwards unless the protoss player is going full retard. You put pression early on with mines, he will have tools to detect/counter mine drop. Most of the time they just camp stalkers in mineral lines waiting for the drop without scouting anything because it is obvious next move.
The push with hellbat tank ghost is really really strong but I think this build is easily countered by a protoss that know what is happening. If he sees the push 3 maraud 2 mines, he will scout for this build and then just 3 base macro ultra greedy because he know pressure will come only after 13 min. Then it's just basic mathematics he just have too much stuff.
I wonder if there is a way to get to your push hellbat tank ghost using hellion pressure instead of WM in the midgame especially to counter the 3 base greed. Because let's face it it's not a 4 WM drop that will do anything to a competent protoss on 3 bases.
It's good fun to try this for time to time, I like awkward strategies because i'm sick of "standard" play. I just added your build to my arsenal of "crazy" builds and I think it have a great potential on certain maps.
Also it is really good stuff for macro mecanics practice because I find really demanding to maintain perfect macro for this build. It is very challenging compared to bio play (maybe because I am so much used to make bio )
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EPT
