• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:07
CEST 16:07
KST 23:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature2Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time 2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Soma Explains: JaeDong's Double Muta Micro BW AKA finder tool ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking!
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1904 users

The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 219

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 217 218 219 220 221 269 Next
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 14:17:54
November 09 2014 14:07 GMT
#4361
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Jeka
Profile Joined May 2010
United States61 Posts
November 09 2014 14:57 GMT
#4362
To defend a 1 base 4gate is simple if you know it's coming. No expansion and chronoboost being saved up for the cyber core are both indications of a 4gate on the way. A couple of spines and a roach warren to defend the natural, one spine at the third base under the larva. Use queens, slow zerglings, and roaches for defense. The spines are so strong vs gateway timings that one spine crawler at the third will make it hard for Protoss to take down your third. If it's a well executed 4 gate then forfeit ur third and turtle up and take gases with a few more precautionary spines. If you scouted double gas geysers and a gateway push that is weak and zealot heavy then you can use roach stutter step micro to easily hold it off and keep ur thired base. The follow up to this is usually a proxy stargate which means 2 or 3 VR's can appear. The Protoss gas has to be used on either stalkers and sentries to make the push work or on other bullshit like voids. I have been in a position where I scouted a gateway timing and defended it but then was not prepared for the void rays that tore down my base. But the regular four gate can't win since if you have spines completed in time the push ain't gonna work. you need to use queens and slow zerglings to prevent Protoss from dealing any damage to ur natural mineral line. Since the Protoss only has a 16 worker mineral income you need to make sure you keep pumping zerglings roaches and queens for defense to protect ur 2nd base from the zealot stalker sentry force.
"The God of War hates those who hesitate."
RevolutionX
Profile Joined June 2014
Netherlands18 Posts
November 09 2014 17:07 GMT
#4363
can anyone tell me how to deal with mutas? when i scout his spire i try to attack with roaches but i can only do a certain amount of damage. adding hydra infestor takes too long by then he has 4 bases and overruns me with roaches.
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 20:21:41
November 09 2014 20:20 GMT
#4364
On November 09 2014 23:07 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works


if u drone scout and see 1 base 4 gate (chronoboost banked) then why would u go 3 hatch before pool anyway. well in this case you should just sacrifice your third or cancel it. Against 1 gas 4 gate you go roaches, against 2 gas you get gas before pool for speed asap. It should finish just in time for the 2nd wave of warpins.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 09 2014 21:00 GMT
#4365
On November 09 2014 23:07 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works


You can't hold 3 bases against a 1 base attack from Protoss, so either cancel or sacrifice the 3rd base (if it's down already), get gas, and start making lots of queens and a spine crawler at the natural. If you can hold the initial pressure until speed is out, you'll be in pretty good shape. If you feel confident enough, a small counterattack of like 4-6 lings will completely destroy the push too.

Xinoe provided some good advice too, though I can't vouch 100% if you should go speed or roaches versus certain things. If you DON'T triple hatch before pool, I would always say just get roaches and save your drones for mining, but since you're already behind doing triple hatch before pool, I'm not sure it's a great idea to try to add roaches when queens/spines can hold quite well without gas. But that's just my logic...I don't usually go triple hatch before pool, and I really only do it blindly, so I don't really run into this scenario often.

On November 10 2014 02:07 RevolutionX wrote:
can anyone tell me how to deal with mutas? when i scout his spire i try to attack with roaches but i can only do a certain amount of damage. adding hydra infestor takes too long by then he has 4 bases and overruns me with roaches.


I'm still trying to figure this out as well, but if you do a normal roach build correctly, you should have about 20 roaches ready to go as his first mutas are popping, and they can generally do a lot of damage to the mineral line/queens. Behind that, you can either go queen/infestor (seems to be more popular) or hydras to push the muta counterattacks away. I highly recommend small roach counterattacks (4-6 roaches) whenever the mutas are out of position to try and keep him as busy as possible.

I think it's important to feign pressure at some point and keep the muta player spending money on things like banelings and static defense instead of teching straight up to ultralisks. Meanwhile, you should be looking to get maxed out on roach/hydra/queen/infestor and doing a slow doom push (making sure you don't get baneling flanked). If your macro is on point and you didn't take too much damage from the mutalisks earlier on, this generally works.



StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
11B
Profile Joined March 2010
United States188 Posts
November 09 2014 23:36 GMT
#4366
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?


Cancel your 3rd and throw down pool Asap. TBH, you're in a really bad way b/o vs b/o wise. The delayed pool will slow down your Queens and of course larvae. Imo, the best way to hold is stay gasless a bit longer while adding Queens (4-5 total), spines, and drones. A 4 gate will hit around 6:00 with reinforcements around 6:40-45, and a 3rd wave around 7:25-7:30.

And oh, it's important to NOT lay any creep with your Queens. Save energy for transfuse. Throw down 1 spine NLT 5:10 and start 3x gas at 5:30. At 6:00 you'll have a finished spine and 3 Queens defending your expo (I keep 1 in my main) for his first push.

At 6:00 be sure to get into gas, throw down a 2nd spine and RW (NLT 6:00). 1st 100gas into speedlling (6:20), and by 7:00 you'll have 200gas saved for Roaches. So at 6:45 you'll be defending vs 8 Protoss units with 3 Queens (2 transfuses) and 2 spines (bring your 4th Queen if paranoid). The 7:30ish attack you'll have 8 Roaches hatching and speedling flood after that.

So you're safe to drone till just under 7:00 mark. With slightly delayed Queens and larvae you'll probably be in the 37-42 Range, which is fine. I'll try and find one of my old old old replays showcasing this. Timings might have change a bit? I'm thinking it should still work pretty well.

LoL....Pogue
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 09 2014 23:38 GMT
#4367
thanks for all the help guys, really comprehensive answers
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
November 10 2014 13:46 GMT
#4368
alright my brothers, horrible map pool has come onto us

I need stuff to abuse, since I've never played any of these maps

what good, scummy stuff can you do there?
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
November 11 2014 16:39 GMT
#4369
Help: there are new maps that are different than last season. What maps should I down vote?
NaboliC
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden130 Posts
November 11 2014 19:38 GMT
#4370
With the new season and all the uselss old maps that were removed for a reason, I lose almost every fucking game. From being at the brink of masters again, I have not lost 12 matches and won 3. Nothing is possible anymore and its narrow, free to have 3-4 bases as terran and protoss and a lot of uselss noobshit on all maps. This must just be for a little while? We can't play with these maps?
KtJ
Profile Joined October 2014
United States3514 Posts
November 11 2014 20:09 GMT
#4371
How does the new map pool affect zerg?
"I thought I destroyed my CC but it seemed like the only thing I destroyed was Idra's mentality."
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 11 2014 20:43 GMT
#4372
Dunno, I veto'd Daybreak because I found it pretty retarded to defend the 3rd base from immortal all-in
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 12 2014 02:31 GMT
#4373
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
doomcore
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany16 Posts
November 12 2014 03:06 GMT
#4374
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.



So true!!!
dum spiro spero
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
November 12 2014 04:26 GMT
#4375
I am thinking that with LotV looking so much more micro oriented (at least I am hoping so) we might as well use this time to practice. Get dem early lings out and start microin dem!
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-12 10:59:47
November 12 2014 10:06 GMT
#4376
On November 12 2014 05:43 Ej_ wrote:
Dunno, I veto'd Daybreak because I found it pretty retarded to defend the 3rd base from immortal all-in

you what? That map is so nice. ovy coolspots everywhere.
HellHound
Profile Joined September 2014
Bulgaria5962 Posts
November 12 2014 17:05 GMT
#4377
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.

But I don't wanna play standart this season
Classic GosoO |sOs| Everyone has to give in, let Life win | Zest Is The Best | Roach Cultist | I recognize the might and wisdom of my Otherworldly overlord | Air vs Air 200/200 SC2 is best SC2 | PRIME has been robbed | Fuck prime go ST | ROACH ROACH ROACH
Asgorath
Profile Joined September 2012
United States15 Posts
November 12 2014 17:14 GMT
#4378
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.


Any resources on proxy hatch builds in particular? I gave it a whirl yesterday for the first time, and failed miserably of course:

http://ggtracker.com/matches/5586326

Terrible injects in my main, supply blocks, bad micro at the proxy hatch (which I took in his natural) are all obvious mistakes, just wondering if I have the basic plan down though? Is it better to block at the natural, or try and hide it somewhere else behind his wall? Should I wait until I have 2+ injects worth of Roaches before I attack? Any good VODs or replays out there that I can study?
Ghaleon109
Profile Joined August 2013
United States15 Posts
November 12 2014 19:48 GMT
#4379
I played around 20 matches yesterday and got cannon rushed in every single PvZ.. the exception being where I proxy hatched on Xel'Naga.

I've been opening 15p/15h but some of these wall offs are ridiculous. By the time my lings get down to the natural they've already sim-city'd the cannon in.

I'm assuming I should just pull 3-4 drones? 2 to patrol the wall off spots and 1 to chase + one to pick at a pylon?(maybe not that last one..)
NaboliC
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden130 Posts
November 12 2014 20:42 GMT
#4380
On November 13 2014 04:48 Ghaleon109 wrote:
I played around 20 matches yesterday and got cannon rushed in every single PvZ.. the exception being where I proxy hatched on Xel'Naga.

I've been opening 15p/15h but some of these wall offs are ridiculous. By the time my lings get down to the natural they've already sim-city'd the cannon in.

I'm assuming I should just pull 3-4 drones? 2 to patrol the wall off spots and 1 to chase + one to pick at a pylon?(maybe not that last one..)

I go 14 p instead of 15 which I think is worth it. Either you have an ol to patrol over your natural or/and you send a drone down to check for things and block if necessary.
Prev 1 217 218 219 220 221 269 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:00
S2 Championship: Ro28 Day 2
EnkiAlexander 123
3DClanTV 82
IntoTheiNu 38
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .187
Rex 101
ProTech90
Codebar 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 56120
Calm 4728
Rain 2804
firebathero 344
EffOrt 276
ggaemo 229
Last 200
Pusan 159
ToSsGirL 112
Shine 99
[ Show more ]
Hyun 92
Killer 52
sorry 50
Mong 44
sSak 43
Movie 42
scan(afreeca) 24
Aegong 21
zelot 16
Sacsri 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Terrorterran 10
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
Gorgc4506
qojqva2983
Dendi952
XcaliburYe397
febbydoto9
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m118
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor130
Liquid`Hasu118
Other Games
singsing2140
B2W.Neo1912
RotterdaM468
DeMusliM422
crisheroes254
XaKoH 169
ArmadaUGS60
rGuardiaN30
KnowMe21
JuggernautJason0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2841
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
54m
BSL Team Wars
4h 54m
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
19h 54m
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
1d
RotterdaM Event
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 20h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.