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The HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 219

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 14:17:54
November 09 2014 14:07 GMT
#4361
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Jeka
Profile Joined May 2010
United States61 Posts
November 09 2014 14:57 GMT
#4362
To defend a 1 base 4gate is simple if you know it's coming. No expansion and chronoboost being saved up for the cyber core are both indications of a 4gate on the way. A couple of spines and a roach warren to defend the natural, one spine at the third base under the larva. Use queens, slow zerglings, and roaches for defense. The spines are so strong vs gateway timings that one spine crawler at the third will make it hard for Protoss to take down your third. If it's a well executed 4 gate then forfeit ur third and turtle up and take gases with a few more precautionary spines. If you scouted double gas geysers and a gateway push that is weak and zealot heavy then you can use roach stutter step micro to easily hold it off and keep ur thired base. The follow up to this is usually a proxy stargate which means 2 or 3 VR's can appear. The Protoss gas has to be used on either stalkers and sentries to make the push work or on other bullshit like voids. I have been in a position where I scouted a gateway timing and defended it but then was not prepared for the void rays that tore down my base. But the regular four gate can't win since if you have spines completed in time the push ain't gonna work. you need to use queens and slow zerglings to prevent Protoss from dealing any damage to ur natural mineral line. Since the Protoss only has a 16 worker mineral income you need to make sure you keep pumping zerglings roaches and queens for defense to protect ur 2nd base from the zealot stalker sentry force.
"The God of War hates those who hesitate."
RevolutionX
Profile Joined June 2014
Netherlands18 Posts
November 09 2014 17:07 GMT
#4363
can anyone tell me how to deal with mutas? when i scout his spire i try to attack with roaches but i can only do a certain amount of damage. adding hydra infestor takes too long by then he has 4 bases and overruns me with roaches.
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 20:21:41
November 09 2014 20:20 GMT
#4364
On November 09 2014 23:07 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works


if u drone scout and see 1 base 4 gate (chronoboost banked) then why would u go 3 hatch before pool anyway. well in this case you should just sacrifice your third or cancel it. Against 1 gas 4 gate you go roaches, against 2 gas you get gas before pool for speed asap. It should finish just in time for the 2nd wave of warpins.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 09 2014 21:00 GMT
#4365
On November 09 2014 23:07 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 22:41 Alchemik wrote:
On November 09 2014 22:32 Ej_ wrote:
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?

1 or 2 base?

1 base, 2 base builds I just flood lings and it (mostly) works


You can't hold 3 bases against a 1 base attack from Protoss, so either cancel or sacrifice the 3rd base (if it's down already), get gas, and start making lots of queens and a spine crawler at the natural. If you can hold the initial pressure until speed is out, you'll be in pretty good shape. If you feel confident enough, a small counterattack of like 4-6 lings will completely destroy the push too.

Xinoe provided some good advice too, though I can't vouch 100% if you should go speed or roaches versus certain things. If you DON'T triple hatch before pool, I would always say just get roaches and save your drones for mining, but since you're already behind doing triple hatch before pool, I'm not sure it's a great idea to try to add roaches when queens/spines can hold quite well without gas. But that's just my logic...I don't usually go triple hatch before pool, and I really only do it blindly, so I don't really run into this scenario often.

On November 10 2014 02:07 RevolutionX wrote:
can anyone tell me how to deal with mutas? when i scout his spire i try to attack with roaches but i can only do a certain amount of damage. adding hydra infestor takes too long by then he has 4 bases and overruns me with roaches.


I'm still trying to figure this out as well, but if you do a normal roach build correctly, you should have about 20 roaches ready to go as his first mutas are popping, and they can generally do a lot of damage to the mineral line/queens. Behind that, you can either go queen/infestor (seems to be more popular) or hydras to push the muta counterattacks away. I highly recommend small roach counterattacks (4-6 roaches) whenever the mutas are out of position to try and keep him as busy as possible.

I think it's important to feign pressure at some point and keep the muta player spending money on things like banelings and static defense instead of teching straight up to ultralisks. Meanwhile, you should be looking to get maxed out on roach/hydra/queen/infestor and doing a slow doom push (making sure you don't get baneling flanked). If your macro is on point and you didn't take too much damage from the mutalisks earlier on, this generally works.



StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
11B
Profile Joined March 2010
United States188 Posts
November 09 2014 23:36 GMT
#4366
what's the most reliable way to stop 4gate when going 3hatch no pool after drone scout? Queens? Spines? Roaches? Slowlings? Do I even take gas if I opened gasless?
I guess you're supposed to forfeit the 3rd?


Cancel your 3rd and throw down pool Asap. TBH, you're in a really bad way b/o vs b/o wise. The delayed pool will slow down your Queens and of course larvae. Imo, the best way to hold is stay gasless a bit longer while adding Queens (4-5 total), spines, and drones. A 4 gate will hit around 6:00 with reinforcements around 6:40-45, and a 3rd wave around 7:25-7:30.

And oh, it's important to NOT lay any creep with your Queens. Save energy for transfuse. Throw down 1 spine NLT 5:10 and start 3x gas at 5:30. At 6:00 you'll have a finished spine and 3 Queens defending your expo (I keep 1 in my main) for his first push.

At 6:00 be sure to get into gas, throw down a 2nd spine and RW (NLT 6:00). 1st 100gas into speedlling (6:20), and by 7:00 you'll have 200gas saved for Roaches. So at 6:45 you'll be defending vs 8 Protoss units with 3 Queens (2 transfuses) and 2 spines (bring your 4th Queen if paranoid). The 7:30ish attack you'll have 8 Roaches hatching and speedling flood after that.

So you're safe to drone till just under 7:00 mark. With slightly delayed Queens and larvae you'll probably be in the 37-42 Range, which is fine. I'll try and find one of my old old old replays showcasing this. Timings might have change a bit? I'm thinking it should still work pretty well.

LoL....Pogue
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 09 2014 23:38 GMT
#4367
thanks for all the help guys, really comprehensive answers
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Alchemik
Profile Joined March 2014
Poland7124 Posts
November 10 2014 13:46 GMT
#4368
alright my brothers, horrible map pool has come onto us

I need stuff to abuse, since I've never played any of these maps

what good, scummy stuff can you do there?
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
November 11 2014 16:39 GMT
#4369
Help: there are new maps that are different than last season. What maps should I down vote?
NaboliC
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden130 Posts
November 11 2014 19:38 GMT
#4370
With the new season and all the uselss old maps that were removed for a reason, I lose almost every fucking game. From being at the brink of masters again, I have not lost 12 matches and won 3. Nothing is possible anymore and its narrow, free to have 3-4 bases as terran and protoss and a lot of uselss noobshit on all maps. This must just be for a little while? We can't play with these maps?
KtJ
Profile Joined October 2014
United States3514 Posts
November 11 2014 20:09 GMT
#4371
How does the new map pool affect zerg?
"I thought I destroyed my CC but it seemed like the only thing I destroyed was Idra's mentality."
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 11 2014 20:43 GMT
#4372
Dunno, I veto'd Daybreak because I found it pretty retarded to defend the 3rd base from immortal all-in
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
November 12 2014 02:31 GMT
#4373
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
doomcore
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany16 Posts
November 12 2014 03:06 GMT
#4374
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.



So true!!!
dum spiro spero
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
November 12 2014 04:26 GMT
#4375
I am thinking that with LotV looking so much more micro oriented (at least I am hoping so) we might as well use this time to practice. Get dem early lings out and start microin dem!
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-12 10:59:47
November 12 2014 10:06 GMT
#4376
On November 12 2014 05:43 Ej_ wrote:
Dunno, I veto'd Daybreak because I found it pretty retarded to defend the 3rd base from immortal all-in

you what? That map is so nice. ovy coolspots everywhere.
HellHound
Profile Joined September 2014
Bulgaria5962 Posts
November 12 2014 17:05 GMT
#4377
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.

But I don't wanna play standart this season
Classic GosoO |sOs| Everyone has to give in, let Life win | Zest Is The Best | Roach Cultist | I recognize the might and wisdom of my Otherworldly overlord | Air vs Air 200/200 SC2 is best SC2 | PRIME has been robbed | Fuck prime go ST | ROACH ROACH ROACH
Asgorath
Profile Joined September 2012
United States15 Posts
November 12 2014 17:14 GMT
#4378
On November 12 2014 11:31 SC2John wrote:
I highly suggest mastering your 9pools, 14/14, proxy hatch, and roach/bane busts with this season. It's not just the map pool, but the players themselves....

It's rough out there.


Any resources on proxy hatch builds in particular? I gave it a whirl yesterday for the first time, and failed miserably of course:

http://ggtracker.com/matches/5586326

Terrible injects in my main, supply blocks, bad micro at the proxy hatch (which I took in his natural) are all obvious mistakes, just wondering if I have the basic plan down though? Is it better to block at the natural, or try and hide it somewhere else behind his wall? Should I wait until I have 2+ injects worth of Roaches before I attack? Any good VODs or replays out there that I can study?
Ghaleon109
Profile Joined August 2013
United States15 Posts
November 12 2014 19:48 GMT
#4379
I played around 20 matches yesterday and got cannon rushed in every single PvZ.. the exception being where I proxy hatched on Xel'Naga.

I've been opening 15p/15h but some of these wall offs are ridiculous. By the time my lings get down to the natural they've already sim-city'd the cannon in.

I'm assuming I should just pull 3-4 drones? 2 to patrol the wall off spots and 1 to chase + one to pick at a pylon?(maybe not that last one..)
NaboliC
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden130 Posts
November 12 2014 20:42 GMT
#4380
On November 13 2014 04:48 Ghaleon109 wrote:
I played around 20 matches yesterday and got cannon rushed in every single PvZ.. the exception being where I proxy hatched on Xel'Naga.

I've been opening 15p/15h but some of these wall offs are ridiculous. By the time my lings get down to the natural they've already sim-city'd the cannon in.

I'm assuming I should just pull 3-4 drones? 2 to patrol the wall off spots and 1 to chase + one to pick at a pylon?(maybe not that last one..)

I go 14 p instead of 15 which I think is worth it. Either you have an ol to patrol over your natural or/and you send a drone down to check for things and block if necessary.
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