EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 71
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Bwall
Sweden145 Posts
On May 06 2013 14:38 KingofGods wrote: Do people consider SCV pulls cheese? I just played a tvp on Starstation where I had 3 bases, 71 scvs, and a 4th command centre transforming into orbital as I pulled 24 scvs and attacked at about the 18 min mark with 2-2 upgrades and about 12 vikings while building 4 at a time against a pure collosi army who was only 1-1. I certainly wouldn't consider myself all in with that attack but losing my entire maxed out army including 24 scvs would definitely suck if I didn't do significant damage. I ended up winning the prolonged fight after a few production cycles from each side. I wouldn't call it cheese, but does it matter if it's regarded as cheese or not? It's just a word. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On May 06 2013 14:38 KingofGods wrote: Do people consider SCV pulls cheese? I just played a tvp on Starstation where I had 3 bases, 71 scvs, and a 4th command centre transforming into orbital as I pulled 24 scvs and attacked at about the 18 min mark with 2-2 upgrades and about 12 vikings while building 4 at a time against a pure collosi army who was only 1-1. I certainly wouldn't consider myself all in with that attack but losing my entire maxed out army including 24 scvs would definitely suck if I didn't do significant damage. I ended up winning the prolonged fight after a few production cycles from each side. No thats actually quite a common time to pull SCV's. Hell bomber did it 3 times against creator. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
At 71 SCVs? How can one miss 20+ SCVs moving across the map?! I'm sorry, but that's just name calling at this point. | ||
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Ace SpadeZ
United Kingdom15 Posts
User was warned for this post My bad, ignore this just re checked the op and saw the answer | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On May 06 2013 10:15 Sodah wrote: I'm a platinum terran. I just got HotS. If I only use one build, what should it be? In WoL, I mostly did thorzain's TvT build. Build or opening? Assuming opening, perhaps: 12 rax 12 gas reaper FE I was opening 12 rax 15 gas FE for all matchups with some success, but for TvP I like having the reaper to scout for DTs, blink all-ins, oracles, etc. I feel like in HotS TvP, a reaper is a necessity to be safe. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
Basically every single pro, every single high level streamer and almost everyone opens with at least a handful of hellions early game TvZ. But I've never been able to get much worth out of my hellions outside of scouting a possible Zerg all-in. My standard build in WoL was to open 1Rax CC into 4Rax Reactor Port and multi-drop. Which I feel has been made better in HOTS with speed vacs. I also feel like opening hellions slows down my ebay upgrades in HOTS since I find it very risky to open WoL style hellion -> 2ebay. I'm working on a build where I make a single reaper for scouting what the Zerg is doing to try and prevent various all-ins. My build is pretty safe against most except for very early roach aggression and 2base eco banes -- where I need to make more bunkers. The goal is to transition ASAP into getting bio upgrades while constantly dropping everywhere since I feel like multi-harass is always my strong point. So I offer up this question: In TvZ is it possible to have a safe, reliable and more importantly good build that does not include reactor hellions? Or can the Zerg, at the higher level, exploit your lack of map awareness too greatly that your standard TvZ pretty much always requires at least 4 Hellions on the map? | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
I like 2 reapers because it allows to do some damage. Drones are nice, but also lings, with 1 reaper you are just spending too much time micro'ing them agains some lings. With 2 you kill lings fast enough that the zerg generally doesn't want to suicide them into the reapers. Of course when speedlings are out party-time is over, but then it also gets alot more dangerous to hang with hellions near his base. Another advantage of 2 reapers is that at the end of their usefulness and with incomplete information of the enemies plan you can suicide scout his main one more time. On some maps you can do that also with 1, but quite often that one would die too soon. Of course 2 reapers can't do everything a bunch of hellions can do, but personally I prefer them over the hellions. More scouting information, less investment, sooner out, and when speedlings are out hellions also require so much babysitting, one second busy with placing some buildings and they are surrounded and die horribly. Also if opponent does a roach push they are fairly useless. On May 06 2013 14:38 KingofGods wrote: Do people consider SCV pulls cheese? I just played a tvp on Starstation where I had 3 bases, 71 scvs, and a 4th command centre transforming into orbital as I pulled 24 scvs and attacked at about the 18 min mark with 2-2 upgrades and about 12 vikings while building 4 at a time against a pure collosi army who was only 1-1. I certainly wouldn't consider myself all in with that attack but losing my entire maxed out army including 24 scvs would definitely suck if I didn't do significant damage. I ended up winning the prolonged fight after a few production cycles from each side. Besides the question what it matters, the definition that it is an all-in (or cheese) if you are screwed when you don't do significant damage is a fairly bad one imo. It would already be better if you make it that you are screwed when you don't do significant damage to the enemies infrastructure/economy: If I lose my late game mech army without nearly whiping out the enemies army I am also in a horrible position. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 07 2013 04:52 Tenks wrote: Is there an opinion on playing TvZ where I don't open reactor hellion? I didn't see anything in the OP about it. Basically every single pro, every single high level streamer and almost everyone opens with at least a handful of hellions early game TvZ. But I've never been able to get much worth out of my hellions outside of scouting a possible Zerg all-in. My standard build in WoL was to open 1Rax CC into 4Rax Reactor Port and multi-drop. Which I feel has been made better in HOTS with speed vacs. I also feel like opening hellions slows down my ebay upgrades in HOTS since I find it very risky to open WoL style hellion -> 2ebay. I'm working on a build where I make a single reaper for scouting what the Zerg is doing to try and prevent various all-ins. My build is pretty safe against most except for very early roach aggression and 2base eco banes -- where I need to make more bunkers. The goal is to transition ASAP into getting bio upgrades while constantly dropping everywhere since I feel like multi-harass is always my strong point. So I offer up this question: In TvZ is it possible to have a safe, reliable and more importantly good build that does not include reactor hellions? Or can the Zerg, at the higher level, exploit your lack of map awareness too greatly that your standard TvZ pretty much always requires at least 4 Hellions on the map? Not totally true. Bunny in WCS-EU groupstage was 0-1 behind and did not want to take any risk, so he started with a tank. But the funny thing is he eventually lost  2nd example, suppy vs heart just now. g1, heart greedy build no pressure loses, g2 builds 6+hellions and i guess hes gonna win (p.s. he didnt but he should have won)  I think that because u do not pressure the zergplayer before medivacs are out, the zerg can macro up and get all the juice he needs to fend off most attacks (just like in wol). After mutalisks are out it will be very hard against a skilled player with descent control to win, because he has 3/4 base fully saturated allready (his gasincome=tech will be insane). f u take 6+ hellions, u have mapcontrol, deny creep, get descent trades to slow zerg down and deny or punish an early 3rd. Ofcourse, there are no bad builds aslong that it works for u. But against a descent player that macro's up after scouting your MMM no hellions, it will be hard. | ||
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PhaNtoM-71
Canada1 Post
Also, while we're at it, what would be the best builds for each matchup? I don't care how much harder a build is to micro than another one, I can just practice Thanks. User was warned for this post Okay I just saw the first question in the op, sorry. What exactly is bio? Is it Marines/Marauders/Medivacs or do i need some Mines in there too or is it something different? Also, about how many of each unit should my army have? | ||
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Purgatori
United Kingdom6 Posts
Is maurader or reactor marine better to counter early stalkers? thanks | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On May 07 2013 08:59 Purgatori wrote: Does anyone have any helpful tips to hold vs protoss early agression > 4 gate... Lost 3 games in a row to this today... I scouted and went maurader/tank with 2 bunkers but got swamped by the amount of stalkers/sentries the protoss had? Is maurader or reactor marine better to counter early stalkers? thanks Lots of bunkers should be more than enough, always pull SCVs. Although with tanks ready you should be able to hold any 4gate aggression. Marauders are better against stalkers | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
On May 07 2013 08:31 PhaNtoM-71 wrote: I haven't played many multiplayer games yet(I've had the game for a couple months now but just recently last week got a PC that could actually run the game), because I'm practicing vs the AI first so I don't get crushed or anything when I start playing ranked. I don't have any problems vs Terran or Protoss, but however, although I still manage to win, I find TvZ much harder. I also have no idea what build to make for that matchup. What would be the best build? And I'm talking about late game, like 200 food armies. I'd prefer bio but I've seen some mech builds along with bio. Also, while we're at it, what would be the best builds for each matchup? I don't care how much harder a build is to micro than another one, I can just practice Thanks. User was warned for this post Okay I just saw the first question in the op, sorry. What exactly is bio? Is it Marines/Marauders/Medivacs or do i need some Mines in there too or is it something different? Also, about how many of each unit should my army have? Bio and mech refer to core units in the composition. Mech revolves around tanks and hellbats/hellions and bio is the Marine/Medivac/Marauder ball (MMM). Both are supplemented by gas units depending on the situation. TvP bio is supported by Ghosts/Vikings, TvZ bio is supported by tanks or mines. If you want to look at unit comps, watch a pro stream for a little. EG's DeMusliM streams constantly throughout the day (he's on right now as of 8:25 EST) and plays primarily bio compositions. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8218 Posts
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jw232
United States157 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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TerranFallout
1 Post
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On May 07 2013 15:46 TerranFallout wrote: What is the best way for a brand new player to learn to be able to deal effectively with 1 base all-ins. I haven't played any RTS online before SC2. Maybe I have an unusual experience but most of the bronze players I play against use a strategy like 2 rax all-in, roach all-in, 4-gate. I've been trying to use the Filtersc guides from youtube, to get used to SC2 ladder. I'd prefer to avoid relying on cheese strategies since it won't work in higher leagues. I've heard from friends that I should try to use 1-base strategies until I get to silver then start using 2 base and 3 base strategies. Should I play more vs AI still, try custom maps like macro or die, YABOT etc., or should I start using 1 base strategies on ladder at first? In bronze just scan plenty and over prepare as it is far better than under preparing. You can always salvage bunkers anyway. Don't underestimate the power of a bunker with SCV's repairing it is impossible to kill without good forcefields. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On May 07 2013 15:46 TerranFallout wrote: What is the best way for a brand new player to learn to be able to deal effectively with 1 base all-ins. I haven't played any RTS online before SC2. Maybe I have an unusual experience but most of the bronze players I play against use a strategy like 2 rax all-in, roach all-in, 4-gate. I've been trying to use the Filtersc guides from youtube, to get used to SC2 ladder. I'd prefer to avoid relying on cheese strategies since it won't work in higher leagues. I've heard from friends that I should try to use 1-base strategies until I get to silver then start using 2 base and 3 base strategies. Should I play more vs AI still, try custom maps like macro or die, YABOT etc., or should I start using 1 base strategies on ladder at first? Do what you think is best suited to your preferred style. Love massive armies? Then learn Fast Expand aka FE builds and master fending off all-ins and defense of your main and natural. Love by-the-book timed attacks? Then do your friends path of master X base all-ins and expand-behind-attack styles. It's a free world.  | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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