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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On May 07 2013 12:28 geokilla wrote:
How the hell do I fight off 20 BCs supported by Marines? Just watching the replay of how I lost makes me look like a fool. Marine Tank into air was expected, so I decided to get Ravens. Somehow after my Seeker Missles getting great hits, he manages to fight off my Marine Tank assault and couple minutes later, he got 20 BCs with me, dead. My 30 Vikings were useless against his BCs.
Sounds like you didn't have enough production behind you to remax effectively and over-built Vikings.
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On May 06 2013 10:28 DemigodcelpH wrote:
So what's the process for getting content added to the main post? Can we get some content on mech compositions and play in non-mirror matchups?
You can ask here. Yes, when I have time I will add something for mech in TvZ. For mech in TvP, I have not received any evidence that it's viable against competent Protoss.
On May 07 2013 12:28 geokilla wrote:
How the hell do I fight off 20 BCs supported by Marines? Just watching the replay of how I lost makes me look like a fool. Marine Tank into air was expected, so I decided to get Ravens. Somehow after my Seeker Missles getting great hits, he manages to fight off my Marine Tank assault and couple minutes later, he got 20 BCs with me, dead. My 30 Vikings were useless against his BCs.
20 Battlecruisers don't magically appear out of thin air. How come you allowed him to invest so many resources and so much time in such a fleet in the first place? When he has so much supply tied up in his Battlecruisers production (assuming he produces them 4-5 at a time), you should have the advantage on ground, so even if he has Tanks to block the way, just circumvent them and doomdrop in his main or something like that.
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TvZ how do I deal with mass roach off 2 base hitting around 10 mins? I open 2 reapers into 6 hellions into MMMM but other than scouting a late or no 3rd from Z what can I look out for? Usually the first I see it is my hellions running into them, but by that time it's 2 late to get more than 1 bunker up and a couple of mines. I find they usually anticipate the mines as well so they're being picked off after 1 shot leaving me trying to kill 15-20 roaches in the first wave with only marines and a couple of mauraders and medivacs at best?
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On May 07 2013 21:37 fraGGer wrote:
TvZ how do I deal with mass roach off 2 base hitting around 10 mins? I open 2 reapers into 6 hellions into MMMM but other than scouting a late or no 3rd from Z what can I look out for? Usually the first I see it is my hellions running into them, but by that time it's 2 late to get more than 1 bunker up and a couple of mines. I find they usually anticipate the mines as well so they're being picked off after 1 shot leaving me trying to kill 15-20 roaches in the first wave with only marines and a couple of mauraders and medivacs at best?
You should see them with your first 2-4 hellions as they start to leave creep. This is more than enough time to get 2-3 extra bunkers and to stop hellion production and go into mines if you desire.
Start making marauders out of any tech lab barracks.
Pre-pull scvs for repair.
It can be an option to open with 1 siege tank before going hellions if you have a meta reason to think that the Zerg will do something like this (or if you scout him getting more than 100 gas out of a decently early gas).
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On May 07 2013 15:46 TerranFallout wrote:
What is the best way for a brand new player to learn to be able to deal effectively with 1 base all-ins. I haven't played any RTS online before SC2. Maybe I have an unusual experience but most of the bronze players I play against use a strategy like 2 rax all-in, roach all-in, 4-gate. I've been trying to use the Filtersc guides from youtube, to get used to SC2 ladder. I'd prefer to avoid relying on cheese strategies since it won't work in higher leagues. I've heard from friends that I should try to use 1-base strategies until I get to silver then start using 2 base and 3 base strategies. Should I play more vs AI still, try custom maps like macro or die, YABOT etc., or should I start using 1 base strategies on ladder at first?
FYI- Cheese works all the way into the highest of pro levels. It just won't teach you as much about the game to play cheese styles. It will teach you that sometimes you win just because of a scouting or reaction mistake by the enemy.
I say do a yabot or game vs very easy AI as a warm up (do one of your builds) and then go ladder. Do that every day.
Honestly, 1 base, 2 base, 3 base... it really doesn't matter! Whenever you switch styles you will have to regrind out games to get decent at a new style. Play a style that you think is COOL or that follows some logic that you understand. You will learn ALOT more quickly if you choose your builds based on that kind of thinking.
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On May 07 2013 21:45 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:37 fraGGer wrote:
TvZ how do I deal with mass roach off 2 base hitting around 10 mins? I open 2 reapers into 6 hellions into MMMM but other than scouting a late or no 3rd from Z what can I look out for? Usually the first I see it is my hellions running into them, but by that time it's 2 late to get more than 1 bunker up and a couple of mines. I find they usually anticipate the mines as well so they're being picked off after 1 shot leaving me trying to kill 15-20 roaches in the first wave with only marines and a couple of mauraders and medivacs at best? You should see them with your first 2-4 hellions as they start to leave creep. This is more than enough time to get 2-3 extra bunkers and to stop hellion production and go into mines if you desire. Start making marauders out of any tech lab barracks. Pre-pull scvs for repair. It can be an option to open with 1 siege tank before going hellions if you have a meta reason to think that the Zerg will do something like this (or if you scout him getting more than 100 gas out of a decently early gas).
He's talking about 1-1 Speedroaches timing, not Roach Warren 2X pressuring with 7-12 Roaches.
If you open with Reapers, sacrifice one to scout the back of his bases when you see no standard third timing. Lair + Roach Warren + no/late third + no Speedlings = 2-bases Roach agression. There are three variants of pure Roach 2-bases Lair agression: 1. frontal with 1/1; 2. Nydus (considered frontal as well since you're not supposed to allow a Nydus to complete in your base); 3. drops. Patrol with one or two Marines at the edge of your bases to deal with a possible Nydus and try to scout his Overlords to see if they have speed around ~9'30 (assuming he synchronizes his speed upgrade with Ventral Sacs to hide a bit his cheese). Against frontal variants, 2-4 Bunkers + Marauders + Mines behind Bunkers + prepared SCVs surrounding Bunkers should do. Of course, Tanks are a strong option, especially considering Roaches/Hydralisks is the likely transition.
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Is there a catchall build in TvT? I really hate the matchup as it seems so coinflippy now. CC first seems completely dead, and with 1 rax cc it's pretty hard to hold a lot of shit thx to medivac/widow mines/helbat.
When I go gas first banshee i die to cloak banshee. It's just frustrating. Is just straight up 1-1-1 any good? seems safe, but i dont know how far behind id be
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On May 07 2013 22:23 heartagram wrote:
Is there a catchall build in TvT?
First build in the OP.
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On May 07 2013 22:25 TheDwf wrote:First build in the OP.
ah, ok. I haven't been seeing a lot of 15 gas but it's obviously still safe. Is that a solid opener both into bio and mech?
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On May 07 2013 23:02 heartagram wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:25 TheDwf wrote:On May 07 2013 22:23 heartagram wrote:
Is there a catchall build in TvT? First build in the OP. ah, ok. I haven't been seeing a lot of 15 gas but it's obviously still safe. Is that a solid opener both into bio and mech?
Yes. Very flexible.
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On May 07 2013 19:26 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 10:28 DemigodcelpH wrote:
So what's the process for getting content added to the main post? Can we get some content on mech compositions and play in non-mirror matchups? You can ask here. Yes, when I have time I will add something for mech in TvZ. For mech in TvP, I have not received any evidence that it's viable against competent Protoss.
ermm..I think strelok would have something to say to you about that, what with dominating protoss in mech tvp in wcs europe.
here is a day9 daily on his style http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/
although it can be argued that he simply wins through macro rather than 'superior compositions'. I feel like i remember day 9 not mentioning it (or I just forgot!) but the strength of this style relies on protoss players taking relatively late 3rd bases meaning their 5th and 6th gases are quite late. hellbat tank actually does really well versus immortal/gateway armies but its archons that really mess this composition up therefore you notice strelok always pushes before the protoss player can stabilise for a long time on 3 bases meaning his archon count isn't too high. This timing should also punish a protoss player trying to cut units to go into skytoss.
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On May 07 2013 22:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:45 vaderseven wrote:On May 07 2013 21:37 fraGGer wrote:
TvZ how do I deal with mass roach off 2 base hitting around 10 mins? I open 2 reapers into 6 hellions into MMMM but other than scouting a late or no 3rd from Z what can I look out for? Usually the first I see it is my hellions running into them, but by that time it's 2 late to get more than 1 bunker up and a couple of mines. I find they usually anticipate the mines as well so they're being picked off after 1 shot leaving me trying to kill 15-20 roaches in the first wave with only marines and a couple of mauraders and medivacs at best? You should see them with your first 2-4 hellions as they start to leave creep. This is more than enough time to get 2-3 extra bunkers and to stop hellion production and go into mines if you desire. Start making marauders out of any tech lab barracks. Pre-pull scvs for repair. It can be an option to open with 1 siege tank before going hellions if you have a meta reason to think that the Zerg will do something like this (or if you scout him getting more than 100 gas out of a decently early gas). He's talking about 1-1 Speedroaches timing, not Roach Warren 2X pressuring with 7-12 Roaches. If you open with Reapers, sacrifice one to scout the back of his bases when you see no standard third timing. Lair + Roach Warren + no/late third + no Speedlings = 2-bases Roach agression. There are three variants of pure Roach 2-bases Lair agression: 1. frontal with 1/1; 2. Nydus (considered frontal as well since you're not supposed to allow a Nydus to complete in your base); 3. drops. Patrol with one or two Marines at the edge of your bases to deal with a possible Nydus and try to scout his Overlords to see if they have speed around ~9'30 (assuming he synchronizes his speed upgrade with Ventral Sacs to hide a bit his cheese). Against frontal variants, 2-4 Bunkers + Marauders + Mines behind Bunkers + prepared SCVs surrounding Bunkers should do. Of course, Tanks are a strong option, especially considering Roaches/Hydralisks is the likely transition.
Thanks for this. And what's a good time to do the reaper scout, about 7 mins?
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Hey TheDwf
I was just wondering, I have been seeing in a lot of terran streams (most recently DeMuslim comes to mind) of them going only marine mine medivac during the midgame when the zergs going mutalingbane and only adding in marauders after seeing the ultra den
Is this better way to play TvZ or is it because they have good enough micro to split the marine without the help of the marauders
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On May 07 2013 22:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 21:45 vaderseven wrote:On May 07 2013 21:37 fraGGer wrote:
TvZ how do I deal with mass roach off 2 base hitting around 10 mins? I open 2 reapers into 6 hellions into MMMM but other than scouting a late or no 3rd from Z what can I look out for? Usually the first I see it is my hellions running into them, but by that time it's 2 late to get more than 1 bunker up and a couple of mines. I find they usually anticipate the mines as well so they're being picked off after 1 shot leaving me trying to kill 15-20 roaches in the first wave with only marines and a couple of mauraders and medivacs at best? You should see them with your first 2-4 hellions as they start to leave creep. This is more than enough time to get 2-3 extra bunkers and to stop hellion production and go into mines if you desire. Start making marauders out of any tech lab barracks. Pre-pull scvs for repair. It can be an option to open with 1 siege tank before going hellions if you have a meta reason to think that the Zerg will do something like this (or if you scout him getting more than 100 gas out of a decently early gas). He's talking about 1-1 Speedroaches timing, not Roach Warren 2X pressuring with 7-12 Roaches. If you open with Reapers, sacrifice one to scout the back of his bases when you see no standard third timing. Lair + Roach Warren + no/late third + no Speedlings = 2-bases Roach agression. There are three variants of pure Roach 2-bases Lair agression: 1. frontal with 1/1; 2. Nydus (considered frontal as well since you're not supposed to allow a Nydus to complete in your base); 3. drops. Patrol with one or two Marines at the edge of your bases to deal with a possible Nydus and try to scout his Overlords to see if they have speed around ~9'30 (assuming he synchronizes his speed upgrade with Ventral Sacs to hide a bit his cheese). Against frontal variants, 2-4 Bunkers + Marauders + Mines behind Bunkers + prepared SCVs surrounding Bunkers should do. Of course, Tanks are a strong option, especially considering Roaches/Hydralisks is the likely transition.
My bad I read it as around 10 roaches instead of roaches at 10 minutes.
TheDwf is correct ofc.
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On May 08 2013 04:56 ThePianoDentist wrote:ermm..I think strelok would have something to say to you about that, what with dominating protoss in mech tvp in wcs europe. here is a day9 daily on his style http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/although it can be argued that he simply wins through macro rather than 'superior compositions'. I feel like i remember day 9 not mentioning it (or I just forgot!) but the strength of this style relies on protoss players taking relatively late 3rd bases meaning their 5th and 6th gases are quite late. hellbat tank actually does really well versus immortal/gateway armies but its archons that really mess this composition up therefore you notice strelok always pushes before the protoss player can stabilise for a long time on 3 bases meaning his archon count isn't too high. This timing should also punish a protoss player trying to cut units to go into skytoss.
I saw some of the Strelok TvP games and I am still not convinced at all. As I said here, victories with mech in TvP involve 1. Terran being ahead (through succesful harass or build orders) and/or 2. bad Protoss reactions (no/late adaptation, bad unit compositions, etc.). I have yet to see convincing games which don't fit this pattern. Feel free to link replays/VODs that contradict this.
On May 08 2013 06:05 fraGGer wrote:
Thanks for this. And what's a good time to do the reaper scout, about 7 mins?
A bit later would be preferable since a 2-bases 4 queens Lair Zerg drones up to ~55 until ~7'30 - 7'45, so aim at ~8'15 - 8'30 to see the first Roaches spawning from the eggs. But as soon as the Lair is ready, you can see the Roach Warren twitching if you find it with your Reaper.
On May 08 2013 07:25 NoZyneighbor wrote:
Hey TheDwf
I was just wondering, I have been seeing in a lot of terran streams (most recently DeMuslim comes to mind) of them going only marine mine medivac during the midgame when the zergs going mutalingbane and only adding in marauders after seeing the ultra den
Is this better way to play TvZ or is it because they have good enough micro to split the marine without the help of the marauders
On April 23 2013 23:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 17:01 stoppersur wrote:
In TvZ, is it theoretically, if someone has perfect micro no marauder is needed? In other words, is it the better the micro, the less marauder one need to build?
Is there any suggestion for marine:marauder ratio in different leagues as a reference.? Yes, you can skip Marauders entirely in midgame against lings/banes/mutas, but you have to add them once Zerg starts his infests/ultras transition. If you include Marauders against lings/banes/mutas, 2 per round of production at most.
Basically yes, this is better if you have excellent Marine control and also helps against medium-high Mutalisks counts that can fend off your attack on their own if you don't have enough remaining Marines after the main phase of an engagement (i. e. generally when Zerg has no more Banelings and all your Mines have fired).
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Been trying to improve my multitasking and opening 12 rax 12 gas into CC into reactor factory.
My followup to this reaper > hellion is usually 3 rax + medivacs + a few mine pushout with the reapers and hellions if i control well. I feel that opening with faster rax + stim + starport rather than a 3rd CC before extra rax (and getting my third at ~10 min when I push out) is "safer" vs potential pressure while also allowing me to continue to force units instead of drones.
Plus players often try and ling bane all-in or roach attack after I open with hellions and reapers and the faster stim + medivacs crush it.
Is faster marine / medivac / mine pressure vs ling bane muta or marine/marauder/medivac pressure vs roach/hydra or roach ling viable in comparison to 3CC builds?
Also when playing 4M against ling bane muta it seems that its almost always better to split up your army and have 2-3 small MMMM forces than a huge push up the front because of how mine splash works. Is this right?
PvT
Against DT FE with a WP, where and how many turrets do i get if I scout it?
What about if I don't see DT + WP coming and have no turrets or scans available right away? How do i respond?
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If you don't have scans or turrets you just flat out lose lol.
At minimum you need 2 turrets, 1 at each mineral line.
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On May 07 2013 19:26 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 12:28 geokilla wrote:
How the hell do I fight off 20 BCs supported by Marines? Just watching the replay of how I lost makes me look like a fool. Marine Tank into air was expected, so I decided to get Ravens. Somehow after my Seeker Missles getting great hits, he manages to fight off my Marine Tank assault and couple minutes later, he got 20 BCs with me, dead. My 30 Vikings were useless against his BCs. 20 Battlecruisers don't magically appear out of thin air. How come you allowed him to invest so many resources and so much time in such a fleet in the first place? When he has so much supply tied up in his Battlecruisers production (assuming he produces them 4-5 at a time), you should have the advantage on ground, so even if he has Tanks to block the way, just circumvent them and doomdrop in his main or something like that.
I didn't... It was a maxed out 200/200 battle where he was producing 6 BCs at a time. He barely defended my attack, and once you have BCs, well Marine-Tank seems to have became useless as he just 1A into my spawning main. Then I made a new main base, tried to build up my Marines and Vkinings to take down his Marine-BC composition, but alas, it was not enough.
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Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?).
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how to beat protoss without getting lucky either scouting their tech or taking the 1/10 chance blindcountering their build?
On May 08 2013 18:36 ForwardAir wrote:
Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?).
yes, mainly because ur space for production buildings is already not enough in most main bases
also building a barracks requires an scv which makes it even more expensive
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EPT
