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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On May 08 2013 19:00 teddyoojo wrote:how to beat protoss without getting lucky either scouting their tech or taking the 1/10 chance blindcountering their build? Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 18:36 ForwardAir wrote:
Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?). yes, mainly because ur space for production buildings is already not enough in most main bases also building a barracks requires an scv which makes it even more expensive
The only issue with the reactor is that it puts you in a bad situation if they find a way of killing it since it halves your production which wouldn't happen with a barracks.
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Also in TvZ when you add your 5th - 8th tax (once third is up) its probably worth leaving them naked so you can throw some TLs on them if he goes for ultras
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On May 08 2013 19:36 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 19:00 teddyoojo wrote:how to beat protoss without getting lucky either scouting their tech or taking the 1/10 chance blindcountering their build? On May 08 2013 18:36 ForwardAir wrote:
Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?). yes, mainly because ur space for production buildings is already not enough in most main bases also building a barracks requires an scv which makes it even more expensive The only issue with the reactor is that it puts you in a bad situation if they find a way of killing it since it halves your production which wouldn't happen with a barracks.
And to get same production from rax without reactors, means u will have to go for gas later, delaying tech and upgrades by atleast 200 minerals. To me this looks a bit hard in an engagement. stim, combat shield, concusive, medivacs and +1's are all late then standard. Yes, its doable, but u will be behind in tech, upgrades, medivacs resulting in a defensive posture instead of a offensive posture around 10 minutes. I would choose earlier techlabs and reactors in favor of more rax because i want gas and alot of production!
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On May 08 2013 09:49 S7EFEN wrote:
Been trying to improve my multitasking and opening 12 rax 12 gas into CC into reactor factory.
My followup to this reaper > hellion is usually 3 rax + medivacs + a few mine pushout with the reapers and hellions if i control well. I feel that opening with faster rax + stim + starport rather than a 3rd CC before extra rax (and getting my third at ~10 min when I push out) is "safer" vs potential pressure while also allowing me to continue to force units instead of drones.
Plus players often try and ling bane all-in or roach attack after I open with hellions and reapers and the faster stim + medivacs crush it.
Is faster marine / medivac / mine pressure vs ling bane muta or marine/marauder/medivac pressure vs roach/hydra or roach ling viable in comparison to 3CC builds?
2-bases timings into third in TvZ are not as bad as they were at the end of the WoL, but they're still rather bad. What happens if Zerg answers correctly (i. e. Overlord sacrifice to scout, drone to 60-65, crush your timing with lings/banes or lings/banes/roaches) is that Zerg enters midgame with the econ/upgrades lead, is free to take his fourth, completes his saturation at the third and delays the landing of your own third. Even in games in which Zerg devoted more resources than necessary to defend and/or suffered some kind of mild damage (e. g. Mvp vs Dimaga, Star Station, WCS Europe or GuMiho vs Jaedong, Neo Planet S, Dreamhack), Zerg was still ahead afterwards. Squeezing in a single EB for a quick +1 is possible (e. g. Flash vs rare) but it changes little to the idea; it takes a certain amount of damage (which Zerg can self-inflict to himself if overreacting) to break even, and Zerg's upgrade lead is a given if he starts 2/2 as soon as possible, which doesn't put you in a good position to pressure/damage Zerg before hive units enter the fray.
Also when playing 4M against ling bane muta it seems that its almost always better to split up your army and have 2-3 small MMMM forces than a huge push up the front because of how mine splash works. Is this right?
Nope, generally you simply keep pounding at the front with everything (except perhaps one drop). Depends a bit on your build order and the situation, though. Sometimes the game/situation allows you to initiate this multi-pronged attack dynamics, sometimes the situation is so tense that you have to keep everything at the front (e. g. Flash vs Bboong, Bel'shir Vestige, Code S). Overall the "commando approach" is more fitting to drop play against hive tech (ultralisks or brood lords).
Against DT FE with a WP, where and how many turrets do i get if I scout it?
One per mineral line and possibly one near your stim.
What about if I don't see DT + WP coming and have no turrets or scans available right away? How do i respond?
F10 - Q. (You can try to build one Turret per mineral line and surround it with SCVs but you will just take too much damage anyway if you have no scan in the next seconds.)
On May 08 2013 18:36 ForwardAir wrote:
Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?).
Yes. Right when the rax is complete. Reactors are better because Terran is mineral-starved. A Barracks not only costs 150 minerals, but also makes you lose mining time since it keeps a SCV busy for 65 seconds + travel time (i. e. ~20 to 45 extra minerals depending on the saturation of your mineral line).
On May 08 2013 19:00 teddyoojo wrote:
how to beat protoss without getting lucky either scouting their tech or taking the 1/10 chance blindcountering their build?
Using well a Reaper is your best bet so you can adapt to whatever you scout.
On May 08 2013 20:36 Marathi wrote:
Also in TvZ when you add your 5th - 8th tax (once third is up) its probably worth leaving them naked so you can throw some TLs on them if he goes for ultras
Generally you go 5 reactors 2 labs on your 7 first rax, then extra labs on the next ones you build against ultras.
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How do i stop a speedling/bane allin if he blind counters my reaper hellion expand?
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On May 08 2013 13:50 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 19:26 TheDwf wrote:On May 07 2013 12:28 geokilla wrote:
How the hell do I fight off 20 BCs supported by Marines? Just watching the replay of how I lost makes me look like a fool. Marine Tank into air was expected, so I decided to get Ravens. Somehow after my Seeker Missles getting great hits, he manages to fight off my Marine Tank assault and couple minutes later, he got 20 BCs with me, dead. My 30 Vikings were useless against his BCs. 20 Battlecruisers don't magically appear out of thin air. How come you allowed him to invest so many resources and so much time in such a fleet in the first place? When he has so much supply tied up in his Battlecruisers production (assuming he produces them 4-5 at a time), you should have the advantage on ground, so even if he has Tanks to block the way, just circumvent them and doomdrop in his main or something like that. I didn't... It was a maxed out 200/200 battle where he was producing 6 BCs at a time. He barely defended my attack, and once you have BCs, well Marine-Tank seems to have became useless as he just 1A into my spawning main. Then I made a new main base, tried to build up my Marines and Vkinings to take down his Marine-BC composition, but alas, it was not enough.
No-upgrade BCs are terrible vs well-upgraded stimmed marines. You should post the replay because this should not happen..
Or you waited too long and let him get up +2/+3 ship plating.
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On May 08 2013 22:17 framtidenskrig wrote:
How do i stop a speedling/bane allin if he blind counters my reaper hellion expand?
Check out fantasy vs true on star station code s ro32
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How to go pure bio in TvT without blindly dying to tanks and hellbats (this assumes the opponent's base is well defended to counterattacks). It's annoying when I have a bioball that takes up more resources die to way more efficient mech even with my best split micro.
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On May 08 2013 19:36 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 19:00 teddyoojo wrote:how to beat protoss without getting lucky either scouting their tech or taking the 1/10 chance blindcountering their build? On May 08 2013 18:36 ForwardAir wrote:
Quick question from a new Terran regarding Reactor Barracks vs. Plain Barracks.
Usually when I have extra minerals, I'll slap down another barracks to keep up with production. However, a friend has recently informed me that putting reactors onto existing barracks is the correct response (citing Koreans/pros etc.). While I'm not doubting any players much much better than me(they probably have very specific timings for when they add on their Reactors), I'm not quite sure how that is more effective, as upgrading the Rax takes just 10 seconds less than building a new barracks (albeit for 100 minerals/gas less) and stops the production of units completely during the process.
I guess my question is this: Is adding Reactors better than just building a new Barracks? (And if it is, when should I be adding on Reactors?). yes, mainly because ur space for production buildings is already not enough in most main bases also building a barracks requires an scv which makes it even more expensive The only issue with the reactor is that it puts you in a bad situation if they find a way of killing it since it halves your production which wouldn't happen with a barracks.
I open rine rine reactor (like in the OP) and the next 50 gas after I drop my factory I spend on a reaper. I also hide my scouting SCV at one of their third bases.
If you suspect a proxy, just use one of your initial marines to quickly check the corners nearest your base.
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On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks.
woah, it's like u read my mind - was just about to post the same question, haha
I would greatly like to hear advice on this as I recently switched from bio+tanks to bio+mine and roach+hydra ownes me. I don't suppose transitioning into tanks is the solution due to the already established structures?
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On May 08 2013 23:54 Michal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks. woah, it's like u read my mind - was just about to post the same question, haha I would greatly like to hear advice on this as I recently switched from bio+tanks to bio+mine and roach+hydra ownes me. I don't suppose transitioning into tanks is the solution due to the already established structures?
Zerg has to pick relatively early his tech route (muta ling, roach hydra), it's fairly easy to scout out his composition, definitely before tunneling claws would need to be researched. You can change things up then, if he trys a mid-game switch he'll lack upgrades. It's pretty much a consensus that 4M is bad vs roach hydra, you need more marauders and tanks.
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Can someone break down the gas timings for zerg that I should be looking for when I reaper expand. Also what change made thors better against broodloards?
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On May 09 2013 00:44 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 23:54 Michal wrote:On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks. woah, it's like u read my mind - was just about to post the same question, haha I would greatly like to hear advice on this as I recently switched from bio+tanks to bio+mine and roach+hydra ownes me. I don't suppose transitioning into tanks is the solution due to the already established structures? Zerg has to pick relatively early his tech route (muta ling, roach hydra), it's fairly easy to scout out his composition, definitely before tunneling claws would need to be researched. You can change things up then, if he trys a mid-game switch he'll lack upgrades. It's pretty much a consensus that 4M is bad vs roach hydra, you need more marauders and tanks.
ok, cool, I'll have to scout more actively then and go back to the good ol' bio+tanks. Any particular timings as to when to look out for that tech-decision? I guess if I see muta's at 10, it's obvious and if I see roach den by around 7 then it's roach+hydra? Something to look at earler?
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On May 09 2013 00:58 NadaSound wrote:
Can someone break down the gas timings for zerg that I should be looking for when I reaper expand. Also what change made thors better against broodloards?
There aren't many you'll see with a reaper expand. You'll generally want to know if its pool> hatch or hatch>pool and whether or not he is still mining gas after his initial 100 for ling speed. The "real" scout timings are done with your first pairs of hellions.
On May 09 2013 01:01 Michal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 00:44 Whatson wrote:On May 08 2013 23:54 Michal wrote:On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks. woah, it's like u read my mind - was just about to post the same question, haha I would greatly like to hear advice on this as I recently switched from bio+tanks to bio+mine and roach+hydra ownes me. I don't suppose transitioning into tanks is the solution due to the already established structures? Zerg has to pick relatively early his tech route (muta ling, roach hydra), it's fairly easy to scout out his composition, definitely before tunneling claws would need to be researched. You can change things up then, if he trys a mid-game switch he'll lack upgrades. It's pretty much a consensus that 4M is bad vs roach hydra, you need more marauders and tanks. ok, cool, I'll have to scout more actively then and go back to the good ol' bio+tanks. Any particular timings as to when to look out for that tech-decision? I guess if I see muta's at 10, it's obvious and if I see roach den by around 7 then it's roach+hydra? Something too look at earler?
You CAN switch out of 4M before you become too dedicated to it. Mines come out of factories, right? And you don't need to research siege any more, either. Use your first hellions to check his unit comp (roaches are shown fairly early) and scan around 9 minutes to make sure.
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1. Is reaper opening recommended in all matchups now? I only use it TvT as I do 15 CC vs Zerg and 1 Gas FE vs Toss, but I see many people do Reaper vs every race. Is it worth basically consolidating all builds into one common 12-gas Reaper expand against all races?
2. In TvZ, if the dude guards his Nat with queens and spine, my hellions cannot get through for harassment. What do you advice to do with them? Right now I basically keep them at 3rd and try to deny it. Also, if a Zerg creates such a wall-off, should I draw any conclusions about his plan in light of it? When I think about it, it tells me that it's important for him to protect his main+nat so he must be...preparing for a timing attack and not wanting to to lose any resources? I'm not sure.
thx
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On May 08 2013 23:54 Michal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote:
Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks. woah, it's like u read my mind - was just about to post the same question, haha I would greatly like to hear advice on this as I recently switched from bio+tanks to bio+mine and roach+hydra ownes me. I don't suppose transitioning into tanks is the solution due to the already established structures?
Updated "Q. What is the best composition against Roaches/Hydralisks? Can I keep playing bio/Mines against it?" in the OP.
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21 Posts
On May 09 2013 01:11 Michal wrote:
1. Is reaper opening recommended in all matchups now? I only use it TvT as I do 15 CC vs Zerg and 1 Gas FE vs Toss, but I see many people do Reaper vs every race. Is it worth basically consolidating all builds into one common 12-gas Reaper expand against all races?
Reaper expands are probably the safest builds for every matchup. It enables you to put on early pressure and get a very good scout of the enemy at multiple points during the game. That being said, stick with what you are comfortable with, but it is nice to have one go to build for all matchups if you are a lower league and focusing on streamlined improvement.
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You can go 1rax FE TvP still, you're just playing the odds of not rolling a player who goes oracles. Reapers are the standard.
I think you're over thinking the wall-off thing, no Zerg in his right mind wants to lose drones in any scenario, walls help prevent that.
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On May 09 2013 01:11 Michal wrote:
2. In TvZ, if the dude guards his Nat with queens and spine, my hellions cannot get through for harassment. What do you advice to do with them? Right now I basically keep them at 3rd and try to deny it. Also, if a Zerg creates such a wall-off, should I draw any conclusions about his plan in light of it? When I think about it, it tells me that it's important for him to protect his main+nat so he must be...preparing for a timing attack and not wanting to to lose any resources? I'm not sure.
thx
Nothing. You're not supposed to systematically try to enter his base to kill drones; this is a risky decision as you may lose your Hellions (and thus your map control/presence and ability to land your third early) for nothing. Just stay in front of his natural with them and be careful not to get surrounded by Zerglings. Walloffs are standard and reveal nothing in particular (except perhaps pure droning with no units until his 2 bases are saturated if he opened gasless and permanently keeps 2 Queens at the wall without trying to spread creep, in which case you simply know he's going 2-bases Lair).
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On May 09 2013 00:58 NadaSound wrote:
Can someone break down the gas timings for zerg that I should be looking for when I reaper expand. Also what change made thors better against broodloards?
Just know that speed can be done at the soonest 3 minutes and 15 seconds after the extractor finishes. Your reaper harass should end before that time so that your reaper(s) can gain use in the mid game. I guess one thing to note is if they keep harvesting gas past 100 or if they restart gas mining before they even have speed.
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