Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
On May 09 2013 07:53 S7EFEN wrote: What is the safest way to open TvP without being super behind? I know I need gas, so should I be going rax gas fact cc reactor rax rax ebay starport? I'd be pumping a few mines against potential MSC + stalker pressure and potential oracle play and marines, then get a reaper on maps which allow scouting with one after the reactor finishes to try and scout tech.
Marines and mines defensively against 1 base play, try and poke around with mines vs gate fe?
Check the three first TvP builds in the OP.
On May 09 2013 08:03 Marathi wrote: Very similar to what you wrote out, though I would just pump constant marines as an aggressive proxy oracle will hit before WM I believe.
Yes, with the dual Marine reactor expand you just have 6 Marines ready in time against the first Oracle coming from ~3'25 proxy stargates.
What are some things Terran A can do to punish Terran B?
I always find if the 14 Cc player drops a scan arround 6 minutes, he can see everything I plan on doing and easily prevent it with good positioning of his units.
Most maps are 2 large to be aggressive quick enough to punish it ..by like sending your first 2 marines or something.. any suggestions?
On large maps, I almost always 14 CC myself w/ a quick bunker up front.
If you go 15 gas, you can go rax->reactor->marines->fact->switch reactor-> hellions->port and then push with a handful of marines/4-6 hellions/1 dropship to apply some pressure. If they bunkered their expo, you can elevator into their main. You could also do a hellion drop in the main to divert their army (it will be almost all marines), and then run your marines into their expo. While doing all this, you could double expo w/ more raxes and upgrades.
Keep in mind if your opponent 14 CCs and you go 12 rax/15 gas, that you have the upper hand in aggression and you will be free to macro up incredibly hard behind it. As long as your harass keeps him busy and contained, you should be able to more than catch up
This.
Perhaps you can also test something more agressive like reactively proxying fact/port for a Mine or Hellion drop or a dual Marines/Hellions drop (something like what Mvp did against Dream on Daybreak at the IEM); with gas 15 it will come a bit later than with gas 13, but hopefully your SCV/Marines harass against his CC and his bunk slowed him.
On May 09 2013 23:11 S7EFEN wrote: TvZ
When I CC first or 2 reaper > CC, I want to rush for 6 hellions to gain map control. The thing is, the period between having reapers and having hellions I have no idea if he made 10 slings or 30+ so when I roll out I occasionally get surrounded and die right away. Is this just poor control on my part? Can someone give me a brief explanation on how hellions are supposed to be controlled vs a ton of lings?
After Reaper expand, park your first 2 Hellions at your main ramp and wait 4 Hellions before moving out. You can't prevail with 2 Hellions against 15-20+ Speedlings.
On May 10 2013 03:20 wag_ wrote: Anyone knows which cc first version Innovation used vs Life in Code S ? It seems better than standard cc first since he has enough to push at 11mins~. Can't get it from the vods since they are not really focusing on his build order though..
thanks.
It's the standard transition in the OP. For the timings:
Bogus vs Life, Daybreak: CC (hg) rax gas bunk fact reactor CC lab gas (6'35) stim EB EB (7'15) reactor (lift fact after 6 Hellions to make Reactors) rax rax (7'50) gas gas (8') port (8'40) rax rax (8'50).
Once your Starport is done (9'30), make a Reactor (done at 10'20) and push with the two first Medivacs at 11'05.
The Whirlwind build was different and non-standard since he made 10 Hellions (since Life never builds early Roaches and frequently goes 3-bases Baneling busts) before producing Mines.
On May 10 2013 10:32 Ginseng wrote: I need a lot of assistance on my TvZ. I am currently at master's rank, but I feel like my TvZ is gold level or lower in sc2, despite me being decent at the matchup in bw (C+ at most). I feel that whenever I move out, I'm going to get owned, out-macroed and so forth. Or when I look away from a battle, that's when the zergs attack my army and I die.
I'm not entirely sure how to make my bio + mine play more effective, or my drop play more effective. From my current skill level, I feel I can never catch zergs off guard or drop them effectively.
In summary, I'm struggling a lot in midgame and late game, and I am unable to harrass successfully and I feel like every battle I fight is a lost cause. I am currently attempting the standard 3 cc builds for TvZ, and just suffering from macro games in mid/late game phases regardless of what composition I scout.
EDIT: I think it is also important to note I am having a hard time holding 3rd bases on specific maps such as Bel'shir and Whirlwind, feels like depot wall, bunker, and widow mines aren't enough.
Post replays.
On May 10 2013 13:59 geokilla wrote: What's the optimal way to deal with Protoss lategame when they got their lovely deathball? I had some Vikings and Ghosts combined with my bio army and while my Ghosts were split onto hotkey 2 and Vikings into hotkey 3, during the engagement I merely sent them to their deaths without killing a single Colossi or firing off a single EMP shot. Spaming E for EMP didn't get off a single shot... I couldn't stim either because half the time, my Hotkey 1 included Ghosts and Ghosts don't have Stimpack!
Yep, your bio group must not include any Ghost because otherwise the superior selection priority forces you to tab to use stim. Controlling bio lategame is extremely difficult anyway. As always, I'm afraid your best bet is to try to win the game before that point.
On May 10 2013 16:40 Cortza wrote: Is the mass marine style ala StimmedProbe's guide still viable in HOTS?
From a quick read it was not even viable in WoL anyway.
On May 10 2013 20:07 papaz wrote: @TheDwf
Who are you? You do an awesome job on TL strategy and have great understanding of the game. Are you a pro player?
Nope, I'm just an amateur player, GM for 7 seasons on Europe.
I recently switched from zerg to terran. At this moment i'm still adjusting my mechanics and such, so i understand that if i lose games is because of my macro, but besides that i have a few questions about this game in concrete.
It's a tvz against a master. I open double reaper into 3cc and 4M. Just at the start of the game, i forgot the second reaper (lol) but i'm still able to scout a roach warren. At this point instead of going hellion i start making mines, i grab a bunker and make 3 marauders.
I lose 4 scv but im able to hold it. The game continues. At the 10:00 min mark, i'm sitting at 47scv, 6mines and 3 marauders and grabbing my 3rd (because he delayed it quite a lot with creep). He is on 58 drones and just starting his spire.
Here's my question, did i commit way too much in stopping his push and thus now i'm behind? What would have been the best response against what i saw?
From now on my macro really hurts my eyes…My medivacs are really really late, i realize i've been mining one gas with only one scv the full game, i'm not prepared for his late mutas and lost a ton of scv, BIG supply blocks, i stop producing mines etc etc. But as i said i've been playing Terran for one week, so i'll patch this soon.
Then i try to push when my +2+2 is finished (although i know i already lost this game). We exchange armies in the middle of the map, my marines die miserably against banelings because my splitting micro is just awful, but there's a moment where i'm ahead in supply (probably because he is saving money for ultras).
How can i capitalize on it? Should i have dropped him?
Then he has ultras and i gg out.
So...I know i could have won this game by just macroing better and I'm aware of what i did bad (but u can advise me on whatever you think) but i also feel i do not know how to respond when i scout agressive openings and i do not know when to straight push or drop or do both things. All in all im just seeking for advice.
Thanks to everybody and please, forgive my english, it's not my mothertongue.
I recently switched from zerg to terran. At this moment i'm still adjusting my mechanics and such, so i understand that if i lose games is because of my macro, but besides that i have a few questions about this game in concrete.
It's a tvz against a master. I open double reaper into 3cc and 4M. Just at the start of the game, i forgot the second reaper (lol) but i'm still able to scout a roach warren. At this point instead of going hellion i start making mines, i grab a bunker and make 3 marauders.
I lose 4 scv but im able to hold it. The game continues. At the 10:00 min mark, i'm sitting at 47scv, 6mines and 3 marauders and grabbing my 3rd (because he delayed it quite a lot with creep). He is on 58 drones and just starting his spire.
Here's my question, did i commit way too much in stopping his push and thus now i'm behind? What would have been the best response against what i saw?
From now on my macro really hurts my eyes…My medivacs are really really late, i realize i've been mining one gas with only one scv the full game, i'm not prepared for his late mutas and lost a ton of scv, BIG supply blocks, i stop producing mines etc etc. But as i said i've been playing Terran for one week, so i'll patch this soon.
Then i try to push when my +2+2 is finished (although i know i already lost this game). We exchange armies in the middle of the map, my marines die miserably against banelings because my splitting micro is just awful, but there's a moment where i'm ahead in supply (probably because he is saving money for ultras).
How can i capitalize on it? Should i have dropped him?
Then he has ultras and i gg out.
So...I know i could have won this game by just macroing better and I'm aware of what i did bad (but u can advise me on whatever you think) but i also feel i do not know how to respond when i scout agressive openings and i do not know when to straight push or drop or do both things. All in all im just seeking for advice.
Thanks to everybody and please, forgive my english, it's not my mothertongue.
You had the correct response against roach pressure(mines, marauders ands bunkers), but as soon as you reboot his push, you want to gain map control with hellions and immediately land your 3rd, that way you can have a good eco and hit a strong 2-2 timing push. If you think that your medivacs are late, you can throw down your starport right after the factory(and possibly make a vicking out of it) like Polt did against Nerchio in Zotac final(http://drop.sc/333234) What you want to do is put pressure as soon as you get stim and medivacs, because they allow you to run away easily, But DO NOT COMMIT : take fights only when you think you are going to trade well, otherwise you want to attack at different fronts by droping him at one place and pushing him at another, to deny creep spread, do eco/tech damages, deny bases, etc... 2-2 timing is the moment when you should have a big army and a good eco behind it to prod like a beast, so that way you can apply much more pressure that you did through out the game, and trade efficiently when he doesn't want to because his T3 tech is going to hit and he wants to save up money. Playing against mutas is a bit different because his T3 is much more late if he keeps making them after 10+/- mutas, and they have the map control. So what you want to do against them is to turtle and macro a bit more and attack later. Because his tech is delayed, you want to wait until he is starting to save up money for his T3 units, and push at this moment. You can recognize it by scaning his main and see if the Hive is researching or done. That's the moment when you want to explode and be aggressive. If you have trouble to deal against the harass mutas, it's totally OK to throw down 3/4 turrets per bases when you are on 3 bases, because your mineral is going to sky rocket and your additional raxs won't be delayed as much. Hope I helped you
I have an interesting build order that I've been using and I was hoping for some feedback.
10 Depot 12 Rax 13 Depot 17 Orbital Command 17 Double Refinery then... 2nd CC Depot Factory
Any thoughts on why or why not this is a good build? I am winning more with this build than with the standard builds. The reason I am doing it this way is that its easier to remember to put workers on gas when its synchronized with the orbital command. Thoughts?
whats a good bio + expand build for 2on2 random (playing with a random teammate)
i tried 3rax, adding teclab on the first, then adding 2 with reactor, is that too much? maybe 2 rax would be better,? but I don't really get enough units to do damage
what im looking for is a terran bio 2v2 build thats like 3g robo for protoss or 3/4gate
Now, I'm not sure how that battle would've went if I actually ran back to the mines and haven't gotten slaughtered by the damn blings. He also tricked me with his 3rd - my bad as I thought he'd put it in the usual spot.
Once Mutas were out I decided not to pursue drops but just max-out and move -which almost worked were it not for that bling/ultra fiasco. I did beat him in upgrades though.
But in general, what do I do when he switches to ultras? Just stick to the bio with emphasis on marauders and that's it? Even when I have many it just feels like it takes forever to kill anything.
On May 11 2013 14:01 Michal wrote: ok, so I have a half-decent grasp on 4M in TvZ. But when he switches to Ultras, it's almost like an ultra (pun NOT intended slaughter if I engage him.
Now, I'm not sure how that battle would've went if I actually ran back to the mines and haven't gotten slaughtered by the damn blings. He also tricked me with his 3rd - my bad as I thought he'd put it in the usual spot.
Once Mutas were out I decided not to pursue drops but just max-out and move -which almost worked were it not for that bling/ultra fiasco. I did beat him in upgrades though.
But in general, what do I do when he switches to ultras? Just stick to the bio with emphasis on marauders and that's it? Even when I have many it just feels like it takes forever to kill anything.
Havent watched your replay but yes against ultras you really really need marauders, Marines do almost no damage against them. Because of the always possible ultra switch you cant over make reactors otherwise marauder production will take far to long to get up and running.
any gm or high masters that could explain to me how the hell you are supposed to defend vs all the different allin protoss can do. Scout 2gas = either blink allin,DT allin,oracles or voidray 3gate allin. I can defend oracles and Dt's easily but when they to the blink allin i insta lose because i dont know whichever ridiculous strat they will do
I had a question for ya'll. Do you evaluate situations by advantage? Like in this replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3112800, I was totally caught by surprise by his all in. I thought he'd simply try to remake his hatch and defend, but I obviously (and horribly) miscalculated.
I guess my question is, are you actively assessing the situation or do you have plans beforehand AND how do you evaluate it? I just sort of do my own thing without thinking too much about advantages, but that doesn't work at a certain level.
EDIT: I know Day9 and Axslav talk a lot about advantages and types of advantages, but I don't understand how to apply what they say in game. I mean, I have an army lead or an economic lead, but how do I apply that to a game I'm currently playing? What steps can I take to learn to do it?
On May 12 2013 05:42 AKomrade wrote: I had a question for ya'll. Do you evaluate situations by advantage? Like in this replay: http://ggtracker.com/matches/3112800, I was totally caught by surprise by his all in. I thought he'd simply try to remake his hatch and defend, but I obviously (and horribly) miscalculated.
I guess my question is, are you actively assessing the situation or do you have plans beforehand AND how do you evaluate it? I just sort of do my own thing without thinking too much about advantages, but that doesn't work at a certain level.
EDIT: I know Day9 and Axslav talk a lot about advantages and types of advantages, but I don't understand how to apply what they say in game. I mean, I have an army lead or an economic lead, but how do I apply that to a game I'm currently playing? What steps can I take to learn to do it?
I think that If u scout well enough there is basically 2 factor which decides if u win or not : Armystrength at the time of an engagement which is heavily influenced by your opponentsarmy+composition also and the resources and buildings to replenish losses asap if needed (but for an allin this doesnt count). All other things ingame help to get a bigger armystrength then our opponent, like economy, upgrades, scouting, unitcomp, micro, positioning etc.
Lets say your opponent begins 1base play and u take your expo early. Then u know that if u can stop his early harras (oracle in tvp for example), you have a good economical advantage to win the game later on, thx to a better economy = more armystrength. This means that if i macro well after the harrasment, u can try a timingpush based on upgrades for example.
If u harras, u want to try to inflict damage to his economy or tech so that his replenishing rate is lowered (eco or buildings) or his tech is delayed (buildings like robotics bay or upgrade buildings). The reason u do this is to get an advantage in a later stage of the game when u want to finish him off.
Every descision u make ingame is so u try to get an advantage over your opponent somehow which will contribute to win the game mostly by getting urself in a good spot for the final engagement. Which mostly means u do this to have a higher armystrength and better replenishingcapabilities at the time of the big engagement then ur opponent.
Small example :
For me, this means i try to do economical damage early/mid game, but later in game i try to snipe the upgrades/techbuildings more then to do eco damage, because if we are both on 4 bases and high armysupply, killing 1 base does not have such of an high impact as killing the upgrades. Yes its usefull to snipe an expo to stall his replenishing rate, but for me to win the final engagement 2/2 or 3/3 upgrades for my opponent is a big deal because it lowers his armystrength.
Hi guys, I'm a gold Terran. I usually can point to why I lost a game, but this most recent TvZ (against another gold) I played baffles me. Basically I did a 1 rax expand on Whirlwind, my zerg opponent does some timing/all-in with roaches, banes and lings and, though I hold him for a few minutes, he crushes me by the end. I feel like I did very very well for a gold-level player, too, yet I still failed. Help please!
On May 12 2013 07:48 Level10Peon wrote: Hi guys, I'm a gold Terran. I usually can point to why I lost a game, but this most recent TvZ (against another gold) I played baffles me. Basically I did a 1 rax expand on Whirlwind, my zerg opponent does some timing/all-in with roaches, banes and lings and, though I hold him for a few minutes, he crushes me by the end. I feel like I did very very well for a gold-level player, too, yet I still failed. Help please!
EPT
slaughter if I engage him.
