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I switched to T from P and I've been having a really difficult time against cheeses, specifically TvZ. I either open 12/12 reaper into CC into hellions and a third CC or CC first into hellions into a third CC. I'm not having trouble identifying pressure/allins but rather my ability to hold them is really poor.
What I do when I CC first is scout around 13 or 15 depending on map size, check gas timing and the third. If I see gas I poke back in and see if he just went for speed or is getting more gas. This is the best tell for me but often this scout is denied by queen or a few lings. Whats the best way to identify speed/bane or roach/ling/bane all ins if this happens? Should my hellions be out and on the map before any all-in hits? I fear losing them to a huge ling swell then he comes and bane busts me.
When I scout a bane bust, I find it difficult to tell how much my opponent is committing and how much extra I need to wall. I also don't know if when I scout either all in if I want to go for medivacs or faster stim, or if I should just throw down a bunch of rax and pump marines? Usually when I scout a 2 base all in with some sort of ling/bane/roach I'll have a rax with a tech lab, a reactored factory and a third cc + 2 ebays on the way, so from here I don't really know if I want more marines or how to manage my production once I see an all in.
Can someone give me like a checklist of what I need to do to not die to either, other than just wall? I really am lost in terms of what I should be building depending on the cheese. Vods or replays would be really cool too.
edit: found the link to the 8-8-8 thread Also, didn't see anything in the OP specifically re: 8/8/8, I know I need to pull SCVs to keep my first two marines alive but once I survive or they run away I don't know where to bunker, as the reapers can easily run away. Also, do I want to go for hellions or marines or marauders if I scout a mass reaper opener or proxy reaper?
I just want to thank all the cool people in this thread. I'm an old fart(31), and when SC2 first came out I played it a little bit, raged, and quit. I was awful, I just could not multitask at all. I came back about a month ago after watching HoTs tournaments and decided to give it another shot with a focus on improving rather than wins and losses. With the help of this thread and Filter's videos I have slowly moved up from playing only bronzies and people like myself in the unranked matches to lately playing mainly gold and platinum people. Today I beat someone who is in diamond in a 20 minute game and that's probably the greatest competitive feeling I've had since I stopped playing sports.
I just want to offer kudos to everyone in this thread for taking the time to contribute. If anyone else is out there frustrated with the game I just want to say stop worrying about wins and losses and start focusing on just getting better. I can't wait til I'm good enough at the basics to jump into the ranked games, something that feels a lot closer than I even would have dreamed of a month ago. This game is worth the effort.
On May 12 2013 11:13 JPSke wrote: I just want to thank all the cool people in this thread. I'm an old fart(31), and when SC2 first came out I played it a little bit, raged, and quit. I was awful, I just could not multitask at all. I came back about a month ago after watching HoTs tournaments and decided to give it another shot with a focus on improving rather than wins and losses. With the help of this thread and Filter's videos I have slowly moved up from playing only bronzies and people like myself in the unranked matches to lately playing mainly gold and platinum people. Today I beat someone who is in diamond in a 20 minute game and that's probably the greatest competitive feeling I've had since I stopped playing sports.
I just want to offer kudos to everyone in this thread for taking the time to contribute. If anyone else is out there frustrated with the game I just want to say stop worrying about wins and losses and start focusing on just getting better. I can't wait til I'm good enough at the basics to jump into the ranked games, something that feels a lot closer than I even would have dreamed of a month ago. This game is worth the effort.
I found out that my rage came from not scouting well or not responding well enough. Its losing by your own mistakes that makes ya rage most f the time, because u know u can do better
On May 12 2013 07:48 Level10Peon wrote: Hi guys, I'm a gold Terran. I usually can point to why I lost a game, but this most recent TvZ (against another gold) I played baffles me. Basically I did a 1 rax expand on Whirlwind, my zerg opponent does some timing/all-in with roaches, banes and lings and, though I hold him for a few minutes, he crushes me by the end. I feel like I did very very well for a gold-level player, too, yet I still failed. Help please!
How should I go about dealing with a very fast storm on 2 bases. I scouted storm being chronoed and saw 6 templars. I did a small poke at the front with 10 or so marines then decided I probably couldnt achieve anything so I turned around to go home then I was time warped and stormed and I lost practically my whole army. I then hid portion of my army to snipe HT's which was pretty successful getting 3 or 4 of the 6. But he still proceeded to storm the rest of my army and kill my base :/ Should I stop this with faster ghosts?' Replay: http://drop.sc/333635
I recently switched from zerg to terran. At this moment i'm still adjusting my mechanics and such, so i understand that if i lose games is because of my macro, but besides that i have a few questions about this game in concrete.
It's a tvz against a master. I open double reaper into 3cc and 4M. Just at the start of the game, i forgot the second reaper (lol) but i'm still able to scout a roach warren. At this point instead of going hellion i start making mines, i grab a bunker and make 3 marauders.
I lose 4 scv but im able to hold it. The game continues. At the 10:00 min mark, i'm sitting at 47scv, 6mines and 3 marauders and grabbing my 3rd (because he delayed it quite a lot with creep). He is on 58 drones and just starting his spire.
Here's my question, did i commit way too much in stopping his push and thus now i'm behind? What would have been the best response against what i saw?
From now on my macro really hurts my eyes…My medivacs are really really late, i realize i've been mining one gas with only one scv the full game, i'm not prepared for his late mutas and lost a ton of scv, BIG supply blocks, i stop producing mines etc etc. But as i said i've been playing Terran for one week, so i'll patch this soon.
Then i try to push when my +2+2 is finished (although i know i already lost this game). We exchange armies in the middle of the map, my marines die miserably against banelings because my splitting micro is just awful, but there's a moment where i'm ahead in supply (probably because he is saving money for ultras).
How can i capitalize on it? Should i have dropped him?
Then he has ultras and i gg out.
So...I know i could have won this game by just macroing better and I'm aware of what i did bad (but u can advise me on whatever you think) but i also feel i do not know how to respond when i scout agressive openings and i do not know when to straight push or drop or do both things. All in all im just seeking for advice.
Thanks to everybody and please, forgive my english, it's not my mothertongue.
You had the correct response against roach pressure(mines, marauders ands bunkers), but as soon as you reboot his push, you want to gain map control with hellions and immediately land your 3rd, that way you can have a good eco and hit a strong 2-2 timing push. If you think that your medivacs are late, you can throw down your starport right after the factory(and possibly make a vicking out of it) like Polt did against Nerchio in Zotac final(http://drop.sc/333234) What you want to do is put pressure as soon as you get stim and medivacs, because they allow you to run away easily, But DO NOT COMMIT : take fights only when you think you are going to trade well, otherwise you want to attack at different fronts by droping him at one place and pushing him at another, to deny creep spread, do eco/tech damages, deny bases, etc... 2-2 timing is the moment when you should have a big army and a good eco behind it to prod like a beast, so that way you can apply much more pressure that you did through out the game, and trade efficiently when he doesn't want to because his T3 tech is going to hit and he wants to save up money. Playing against mutas is a bit different because his T3 is much more late if he keeps making them after 10+/- mutas, and they have the map control. So what you want to do against them is to turtle and macro a bit more and attack later. Because his tech is delayed, you want to wait until he is starting to save up money for his T3 units, and push at this moment. You can recognize it by scaning his main and see if the Hive is researching or done. That's the moment when you want to explode and be aggressive. If you have trouble to deal against the harass mutas, it's totally OK to throw down 3/4 turrets per bases when you are on 3 bases, because your mineral is going to sky rocket and your additional raxs won't be delayed as much. Hope I helped you
Yay! thx for your answer, i see things a bit more clear
1. Any replay packs you guys recommend from Gumiho or such? I checked the DreamHack replay pack but that tournament wasn't that terran dominant and Gumiho got knocked out.
2. TvT. I go for a 12 rax 12 gas reaper opening. I face two rax reapers while I expand, what is my response to this? What infrastructure should I follow up with after my CC? I'm masters but I haven't played this style at all.
On May 12 2013 21:23 Olsson wrote: 1. Any replay packs you guys recommend from Gumiho or such? I checked the DreamHack replay pack but that tournament wasn't that terran dominant and Gumiho got knocked out.
2. TvT. I go for a 12 rax 12 gas reaper opening. I face two rax reapers while I expand, what is my response to this? What infrastructure should I follow up with after my CC? I'm masters but I haven't played this style at all.
There is not much replaypack from very good terran out theere, but there is plenty to watch: DemusliM has a very good stream, Polt as well, I personally enjoy watching Forgg too because he is a smart player and I like to analys his play when I watch his stream. You can watch the vods of the wcs, proleague, etc... Have you consider doing 2 rax reaper expand as well? And if you want to keep doing 1 rax reaper exp, I think that if you scout 2 rax reaper, you can throw down a tech lab on your rax and produce 2 marauders: ready to defend at a good timing against 4 reapers. You can follow up by a quick stim and adding more raxs, teching to siege tank and medivac, without forgetting upgrades. Reactor hellion expand are really good against reapers too.
On May 12 2013 12:40 A Wild Sosd wrote: How should I go about dealing with a very fast storm on 2 bases. I scouted storm being chronoed and saw 6 templars. I did a small poke at the front with 10 or so marines then decided I probably couldnt achieve anything so I turned around to go home then I was time warped and stormed and I lost practically my whole army. I then hid portion of my army to snipe HT's which was pretty successful getting 3 or 4 of the 6. But he still proceeded to storm the rest of my army and kill my base :/ Should I stop this with faster ghosts?' Replay: http://drop.sc/333635
I am at work curently, but when i get home in like an hour i will look at this, and go through it, i used to have massive issues with this, to be honest the biggest thing i was doing wrong was changing my tech path quick enough to deal with the faster HT's.
2-3 ghosts shut this down really hard, and i suspect when i watch the replay that if you scout better, you will have enough of a reaction time to be able to have a better army comp.
On May 12 2013 11:13 JPSke wrote: I just want to thank all the cool people in this thread. I'm an old fart(31), and when SC2 first came out I played it a little bit, raged, and quit. I was awful, I just could not multitask at all. I came back about a month ago after watching HoTs tournaments and decided to give it another shot with a focus on improving rather than wins and losses. With the help of this thread and Filter's videos I have slowly moved up from playing only bronzies and people like myself in the unranked matches to lately playing mainly gold and platinum people. Today I beat someone who is in diamond in a 20 minute game and that's probably the greatest competitive feeling I've had since I stopped playing sports.
I just want to offer kudos to everyone in this thread for taking the time to contribute. If anyone else is out there frustrated with the game I just want to say stop worrying about wins and losses and start focusing on just getting better. I can't wait til I'm good enough at the basics to jump into the ranked games, something that feels a lot closer than I even would have dreamed of a month ago. This game is worth the effort.
How is 31 an old fart? You are still in your physical prime at this age unless you have totally abused yourself. Men don't start to decline until 35, and it is a slow gradual decline. Many pro athletes play into their early 40s.
Is pure bio viable against marine & tank composition? I don't fancy the marine/tank mirrors and don't want to do full-mech either as I prefer the mobility of bio.
Edit - bah, looked under TvT and couldn't find it, answer was above...
I've been losing a lot to a zerg 2 base all-in that involves a large ling, bane, roach army basically crushing me around 10-12 minutes. The replay I posted earlier is an example. What should I do?
I feel like even if I scout, I'm unable to hold this. Even if I wall-off my natural and set-up a bunker, I can't hold it.
With the new hotkey trick Khlador posted about today, is it better to set the alternate key for EMP's or Snipes? I'm thinking the usage of it will be mostly on these two spells, but I can't make my mind up on what would be better to cast faster, my gut is telling me Snipe, any advice?
On May 13 2013 08:50 mau5mat wrote: With the new hotkey trick Khlador posted about today, is it better to set the alternate key for EMP's or Snipes? I'm thinking the usage of it will be mostly on these two spells, but I can't make my mind up on what would be better to cast faster, my gut is telling me Snipe, any advice?
Snipe IMO as you need to be clicked on something for it to work where as you can accidentally waste emps with the hot key trick.
On May 13 2013 08:50 mau5mat wrote: With the new hotkey trick Khlador posted about today, is it better to set the alternate key for EMP's or Snipes? I'm thinking the usage of it will be mostly on these two spells, but I can't make my mind up on what would be better to cast faster, my gut is telling me Snipe, any advice?
Snipe IMO as you need to be clicked on something for it to work where as you can accidentally waste emps with the hot key trick.
Wouldn't you potentially waste snipes on things that aren't worthwhile though? Like TvZ you don't want to be sniping lings or banelings, you want those infestors/broodlords/ultras. TvP too, sniping random zealots isn't going to help as much as HTs
On May 13 2013 08:50 mau5mat wrote: With the new hotkey trick Khlador posted about today, is it better to set the alternate key for EMP's or Snipes? I'm thinking the usage of it will be mostly on these two spells, but I can't make my mind up on what would be better to cast faster, my gut is telling me Snipe, any advice?
I've seen it used for EMP/Raven HSM (not my vid) but from what I understand any spammable spell can be used with the hotkey
This is a random example clip I found of blanket EMPs using the alternate key.
On May 13 2013 08:34 Level10Peon wrote: I've been losing a lot to a zerg 2 base all-in that involves a large ling, bane, roach army basically crushing me around 10-12 minutes. The replay I posted earlier is an example. What should I do?
I feel like even if I scout, I'm unable to hold this. Even if I wall-off my natural and set-up a bunker, I can't hold it.
Well positioned tanks will deal with most 2-base Zerg all-ins, or alternatively versus Roaches you want marauders.
You had neither of these, and you also didn't repair your bunker.
Ok, how the hell do you hold the new 5:10 oracle timing?
I went reaper into reactor cc rax, and the oracle was in my mineral line right as my first 2 marines popped. My reaper scouted a gateway that made a zealot and a stalker and 2 gas. Should I count the amount of gas mined?
I put a huge hole in my wall because the build seems insanely stupid. With my build I get an engi bay blindly at 4:30, and that wasn't nearly fast enough, even though I thought it was the safest thing I could do. he walked a zealot and stalker across the map too, and I don't even have enough marines to deal with the oracles.
Is my build completely obsolete from this? are widow mine builds necessary now?
On May 13 2013 15:23 heartagram wrote: Ok, how the hell do you hold the new 5:10 oracle timing?
I went reaper into reactor cc rax, and the oracle was in my mineral line right as my first 2 marines popped. My reaper scouted a gateway that made a zealot and a stalker and 2 gas. Should I count the amount of gas mined?
I put a huge hole in my wall because the build seems insanely stupid. With my build I get an engi bay blindly at 4:30, and that wasn't nearly fast enough, even though I thought it was the safest thing I could do. he walked a zealot and stalker across the map too, and I don't even have enough marines to deal with the oracles.
Is my build completely obsolete from this? are widow mine builds necessary now?
An oracle cannot hit at 5:10 if he made a stalker. You should be able to have 6 marines in your mineral line with no reaper, a fast reaper forces a stalker which delays the oracle.
On May 13 2013 15:23 heartagram wrote: Ok, how the hell do you hold the new 5:10 oracle timing?
I went reaper into reactor cc rax, and the oracle was in my mineral line right as my first 2 marines popped. My reaper scouted a gateway that made a zealot and a stalker and 2 gas. Should I count the amount of gas mined?
I put a huge hole in my wall because the build seems insanely stupid. With my build I get an engi bay blindly at 4:30, and that wasn't nearly fast enough, even though I thought it was the safest thing I could do. he walked a zealot and stalker across the map too, and I don't even have enough marines to deal with the oracles.
Is my build completely obsolete from this? are widow mine builds necessary now?
An oracle cannot hit at 5:10 if he made a stalker. You should be able to have 6 marines in your mineral line with no reaper, a fast reaper forces a stalker which delays the oracle.
This is not accurate. Perhaps you mean he can't get a stalker early enough to deny a reaper?
See this video:
Stalker comes out at 4:15, oracle comes out at 5:00, hits the base at 5:05.
Seems like there's significant probe cutting going on here, though. Maybe counting the probes is the way to go?
EPT
