EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 69
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Sprite825
France57 Posts
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On May 04 2013 09:18 Sprite825 wrote: So, talking about the reaper fe of flash and demuslim, since the start is the same for both transition, 1-1-1 and 3 rax medivacs, do you want to do 1-1-1 in smaller maps and 3 rax bio in bigger ? What matchup are you talking about? If it is TvT I have found that the Marine Hellion opening is far better. It's safe vs any early marine pushes and can be great for putting on pressure if youre opponent only makes marines and plays greedy. You can also elevator the marines and hellions into his mains on maps with plenty of room to drop e.g. Akilon and Star Station. http://www.gosubuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvt/innovations-marinehellion-expand/ | ||
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Daniel12
Israel29 Posts
Well I just don't know what to do against Blink Stalker all-in, please guys anyone can help me? I'm using the Flash and Demuslim Build in TvP ( fast +1 ATK that Day9 did daily about it - http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-583-demuslim-tvp/ ) Thanks in advance. | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On May 04 2013 22:51 Dvriel wrote: Is there any way to put early pressure for a 1gate expand? Something like 2 rax+stim or CC and then expanding? You can't really apply any real pressure due to Nexus Cannon but you can fake it and apply a soft contain and do small pokes trying to pick off sentries. Then you can attack with stim +1 Combat Shields and 2 Medivacs. Or you could take a risk and push straight after stim has finished. | ||
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Firlefanz
Germany245 Posts
On May 04 2013 22:38 Daniel12 wrote: Hi guys, Well I just don't know what to do against Blink Stalker all-in, please guys anyone can help me? I'm using the Flash and Demuslim Build in TvP ( fast +1 ATK that Day9 did daily about it - http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-583-demuslim-tvp/ ) Thanks in advance. I've had the same problem. Your Barracks are quite delayed and a siege tank defense also doesn't seem possible. Back to 1/1/1 for now.  But maybe someone knows a way? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 03 2013 22:01 BaaL` wrote: Are you sure 8-8-8 is outright bad? The games linked are either drone scouted or pool first (can't see the GSL game, don't have ticket for it), which is clearly a massive advantage for the Zerg. I don't think you can expect even half the games to get drone scouted or be up against a pool first. Against a hatch first, can this build do enough to either win on the spot or macro behind it? I don't think the counter is all that scary, widow mines and/or marauders can be out in time for roaches and zerglings have no chance against walls. Personally I started trying this build to add a little diversity, and so far I have not lost with it (EU low masters). Admittedly not the highest level of play, I'm sure my opponents made mistakes. Let us say that it is the kind of build which can net you lots of free wins, but is stopped dead once the opponent knows the "technical answers" and execute them correctly. The coinflippy aspect of "drone scout or not" (unless you know the habits of your opponent) also makes the build very fragile, contrary to gasless proxy 2 rax in which there is still a lot of ambiguity even when Zerg has identified it. Here, the only tiny ambiguity is "single or double rax," (though honestly the 8-8-8-8 variant barely exists at high level because it's a complete all-in) and the "gas → stall for metaboost" answer can deal with both. There are succesful instances of the build at pro level, of course: MarineKing vs bly, Cloud Kingdom, MLG Consolation Bracket; Maru vs Bboong, Star Station, Code S; Maru vs Soulkey, Akilon Wastes, Code S. But in each of them (the outcomes were respectively massive advantage, win and win), you can clearly see they worked because of the Zergs' mistakes and no scout. What thus happens, when Zerg scouts and/or answers correctly, is that of course you can't hope to kill him straight away, and Zerg remains ahead with the possibility to slow down your development threatening a Baneling bust. That being said, yes, if Zerg's defence is suboptimal, you can have a standard macro game afterwards (Bomber vs RorO, Star Station, Code S). Maps are also a factor when playing this opening. 8-8-8 is stronger on maps in which there is a longer main ↔ natural distance, because Zerglings and particularly the second Queen from the nat hatch have a longer offcreep distance to travel, so connecting them is harder for Zerg, especially if you build a bunker between the main and the natural (as Maru did in both games, and Bomber too). | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
1 marine -> @ 15 seconds of marine, make 2nd rax, after marine -> reactor + 2nd gas Gives you fast 3 reaper cycles, and still expands rather fast, and goes into bio quite well. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I am aware of standard reactor hellions 3OC, fast hellion drop before 3rd CC, and fast 2 more rax before 3rd CC. Also, what considerations both map and scouting wise would smartly influence the decision to choose one over the other? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 04 2013 09:18 Sprite825 wrote: So, talking about the reaper fe of flash and demuslim, since the start is the same for both transition, 1-1-1 and 3 rax medivacs, do you want to do 1-1-1 in smaller maps and 3 rax bio in bigger ? Not really, it's a matter of preference. On May 04 2013 22:51 Dvriel wrote: Is there any way to put early pressure for a 1gate expand? Something like 2 rax+stim or CC and then expanding? You can try a Marines/Mines/Medivac attack (gas or rax first), though of course Protoss can easily block it if he plays safe. Proxy fact is another possibility if you know your opponent doesn't play Oracles (otherwise it's a gamble). On May 05 2013 04:43 vaderseven wrote: At the pro level, what follow ups are considered viable after opening CC rax gas in TvZ? I am aware of standard reactor hellions 3OC, fast hellion drop before 3rd CC, and fast 2 more rax before 3rd CC.
Also, what considerations both map and scouting wise would smartly influence the decision to choose one over the other? Apart from the possibility to better hide your tech from an Overlord sacrifice if you want to go for cheesy Hellions/Hellbats attacks/drops, basically none. It's a matter of choice. For bio play, third before Hellions with a quick dual EB afterwards is unquestionably the best follow-up. | ||
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
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Ginseng
United States268 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
This was Polt's style in WoL for a long time. If I remember correctly, you move out before 10 min and make 3rd CC as you move out. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On May 05 2013 07:32 Ginseng wrote: Has anyone else been feeling like everyone is doing as much cheese as possible in the TvT matchup? Lately on the NA masters level I have been feeling that every TvT I've played involved some sort of thor drop, multiple rax + scv all-in, or multi-rax reaper all-ins (5+ reapers). Scout more. What opening are you running? Reapers are somewhat standard because they are fast and scout easier my man. They rock against hellions, and marines... and practically all early game TvT is marines, hellions, scvs, and reapers. All light units. What one may call cheesy may not really be that 'behind' in macro due to forcing things with reapers. | ||
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 05 2013 04:25 iAmJeffReY wrote: Anyone else running that TvT 2 rax reaper that byun did to demuslim? I'm trying to get my timings down a bit tighter on it... All I know is 12 rax 12 gas 15 OC 1 marine -> @ 15 seconds of marine, make 2nd rax, after marine -> reactor + 2nd gas Gives you fast 3 reaper cycles, and still expands rather fast, and goes into bio quite well. Byun went 15-0,amazing  He does something different everytime, but they both agreed opening 1base play is best in tvt. I saw his 15-0  | ||
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
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AKomrade
United States582 Posts
On May 05 2013 11:41 Kid-Fox wrote: TvP: What is the response to a mass 8gate push from 2bases? I'm talking special tactics mass zealot/archon, I think right as 2-2 finishes for protoss. It's a very powerful strat, so should I counter with mass bunker? It's like I'm getting hit by a protoss truck, and I need to hit back with a bio wall of bricks. Ghosts? Half of P's HP disappears with three or four emps. | ||
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WonDeRSC
United States234 Posts
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A Wild Sosd
Australia421 Posts
On May 05 2013 12:10 iiAreJordan wrote: I just realized that the reason why players like Polt turn their screen by pressing delete, or a similar key(when they stream) is to spot observers. Can someone confirm this? I had no clue why he would do it while watching Polt's stream. I personally zoom in and out when I think I see an observer as the blur is much more visible but I guess rotating the screen would work. | ||
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