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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On March 15 2013 05:12 zhurai wrote: note that because of the msc, the push comes even faster does it really? blink has been nerfed by 30 seconds... the observer you used on WOL took 30 seconds to build... protoss do spend 125 less minerals and 75 less gas (because they don't need the robo or the obs), but I believe the timing the attack comes is about the same... (maybe with 1 or 2 extra stalkers, but not earlier) | ||
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OwnDizzzld
United Kingdom18 Posts
 getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not good | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
What should be a basic opening to try out this push? How many factories can I support on one base? What should I be watching out for? | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 15 2013 05:35 OwnDizzzld wrote: TvP .. Help ! getting owned atm.. What are people doing atm. I sued to do a 2 Rax pressure but now thats not goodPlay more aggressive. Personally I open 1/1/1 and end most of the games within 10 minutes with me winning as most protoss are playing gimmicky at the moment and contrarily to what has been said that 1/1/1 doesn't work against toss due to the new planetary nexus ability it still works if you get your siege tanks in position, let it die out, and target fire the mothership core it w/e it's called. Not to mention if you open Raven if they clump up zealots you can get 1-2 seeker missiles off which help tremendously otherwise I use PDD. Also, if they play safe against your 1/1/1 just expand and aim for a go for a marine/tank stim/cs timing as those are strong as well. | ||
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Striker.superfreunde
Germany1120 Posts
On March 15 2013 06:28 Bleak wrote: Okay, I wanna mech as Terran against Zerg, and I plan to expand safely, get to three bases, and then push with 2/2 upgrades with a force consisting of Hellbats, Siege Tanks, and Widow Mines (possibly vikings as well for the Colossus) What should be a basic opening to try out this push? How many factories can I support on one base? What should I be watching out for? So... you want to mech against zerg or toss? 2 on one base(reactor, lab), 5 on two base (reactor, lab, lab) | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:45 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Play more aggressive. Personally I open 1/1/1 and end most of the games within 10 minutes with me winning as most protoss are playing gimmicky at the moment and contrarily to what has been said that 1/1/1 doesn't work against toss due to the new planetary nexus ability it still works if you get your siege tanks in position, let it die out, and target fire the mothership core it w/e it's called. Not to mention if you open Raven if they clump up zealots you can get 1-2 seeker missiles off which help tremendously otherwise I use PDD. Also, if they play safe against your 1/1/1 just expand and aim for a go for a marine/tank stim/cs timing as those are strong as well. What exactly are you targeting the mothership core with? Also, it's not the fact that planetary nexus can straight up kill a 1/1/1 that makes that build unviable, it's that the planetary nexus severely delays your push, as you have to 'wait for it to die out'. | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:50 kollin wrote: What exactly are you targeting the mothership core with? Also, it's not the fact that planetary nexus can straight up kill a 1/1/1 that makes that build unviable, it's that the planetary nexus severely delays your push, as you have to 'wait for it to die out'. Actually planetary nexus does not flat out kill 1/1/1, it only does 20 damage per shot if I'm not mistaken. I target the mothership core with vikings. I get a fast Raven which keeps me safe against cheese and allows potential mineral line harass right away instead of going for a banshee and I follow it up with vikings while constantly making marines and tanks. I scout out their front with an scv to see unit comp. and if they FE'd or tried anything gimmicky I pull all scvs and if they don't have a mothership core its an auto win pretty much as long as my micro is on point if they do have a mothership core I use my vikings to give me sight up the ramp and any units that come down the choke point are going to get killed with 4-5 siege tanks blasting them..... I try to snipe the mothership core with vikings though if I can right away, if the play aggressive with the mothership core it's even better as I can snipe it faster and end the game even sooner. If I don't snipe it eventually their energy will run out and I can push up the ramp a long with my reinforced units. Honestly my strengths lay in my micro and heavy aggression some might call it gimmicky but all styles are viable and the way I see it is if you lose you don't lose because your opponent played better you lost because you didn't play well enough as I believe that SC2 and all 1v1 games are a battle against yourself..... But regarding the TvP matchup I'd rather play very aggressive vs trying to go up against a late game protoss army which is very difficult to beat even if you're ahead or allowing the Protoss player to play aggressive early on potentially ending the game early on or doing heavy damage when I have the option to do the same thing and have an even stronger standing army early to mid game. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
of course you have to add vikings later with both composition Should i do traps with widow mines? or just in one control group and burrow them just before the fight happens? this game is so exciting :D | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
Reactor mines is really solid against the majority of builds, but anything one base can pretty much just come and kill you, if anyone else has had some success with reactor mine openings into mech against one base pushes I'd love to see them though, I did enjoy the mine laying. @saaa (hello from the mech channel! :D) I've personally found in TvZ that Tank/Hellbat with mine support is good, you obviously want to add ravens as you get past 3 bases with vikings if he's going heavy into air tech. Mix in some thors incase he does air switches, but you mainly want tanks/hellbats with some mines covering your flanks and turrets infront of your tanks to discourage cloud. Make sure to not overmake mines and if he goes mass ultra, unsiege your tanks. If he goes broodlords, deal with the broodlords using your few thors and viking/raven while sending your tanks unsieged around the map killing his far away bases (send hellbats too). Try not to be too agressive if he's going for a lot of lair tech or hydra/roach/viper and just worry about slowly pushing either forwards or in a path where you can expand/deny his expansions. You never want to be too quick around the map or you'll die to counter attacks or being caught unsieged. You'll want to be constantly doing blue flame hellion hurass too since it's powerful. Basically the way I've found TvZ is if he switches into anything mass hive, so broodlord/corrupter or ultra, then you never really want to be sieged (as you just end up hurting your self or straight up dying to ultras). | ||
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raQn
Poland21 Posts
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airbagface
United States8 Posts
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:27 HeyJude wrote: I have a question regarding general TvT play. I do 1v1s and 2v2s but mainly the 2v2 games. It seems like anytime my opponent has tanks I'm forced into tank play also, is there a way around this? I've never been a fan of siege tanks and I used to use banshees to counter tanks but one thor ruins that play. Marine/Marauder/Drop Ships and abuse your mobility by dropping all over and doing multi pronged attacks. | ||
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:42 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Marine/Marauder/Drop Ships and abuse your mobility by dropping all over and doing multi pronged attacks. Yeah I usually do that in 1v1 but in 2v2 people tend to do 1 or 2 base all-ins so it's hard to find places to drop effectively. What do you do if he sets up outside your main/expo with tanks? | ||
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 15 2013 11:55 HeyJude wrote: Yeah I usually do that in 1v1 but in 2v2 people tend to do 1 or 2 base all-ins so it's hard to find places to drop effectively. What do you do if he sets up outside your main/expo with tanks? Now that tanks don;t require siege tech and Ravens seeker cost a lot less energy and is more useful I'm finding 1/1/1 to be the best opener TvT right now. Back in WoL it was recommended to have two drop ships out asap, put your marines behind the siege hold, pull scvs towards army from the front while hitting the back with your marines and medivacs. BUT now that 1/1/1 is way stronger I honestly don't know as with a raven any early mines are taken out easily and if you can go a 2 pronged attack 1 seeker missile or autpo turrets make the army that much stronger not to mention 1/1/1 with 3 tanks hits much earlier now than it used to. If you want easy wins tvt I suggest going 11 gas, 12 rax, factory after OC, Starport, TL on Factory, fast banshee, followed up by tank/raven/viking/marine production and pushing out with 3 tanks after doign damage with your banshee. It will build your multi tasking ability AND since every terran is openeing with 1-2 reapers you are almost always going to damage with your fast banshee and you can either end the game out right with the 1/1/1 or contain them and expand. | ||
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Scurvy
United States117 Posts
On March 14 2013 02:49 Aveng3r wrote: In tvt, is a gasless 1 rax FE safe against a 1 rax reaper opening? what about a reaper opening from more than 1 barracks? Yeah I can say that defending that reaper opening with a 1 rax FE is incredibly difficult and frustrating, I don't recommend it. I learned that the hard way today. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:47 Striker.superfreunde wrote: So... you want to mech against zerg or toss? 2 on one base(reactor, lab), 5 on two base (reactor, lab, lab) Hopefully both. And possibly in TvT too. I'm tired of bio, played it enough imo in WoL. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do) but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting... if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots... really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat... is there a proper way to engage I'm missing? | ||
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Swordland
232 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 15 2013 22:22 tisalgado wrote: question: how does one dodge storms? I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do) but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting... if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots... really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat... is there a proper way to engage I'm missing? Are you not making Ghosts to deal with the Templar? Generally if you're at the super late game and the Toss has a mixture of a Colossus force and a Templar force you really need Ghosts with Cloak, scan away the observer and go in and try to snipe/EMP the HT before the engagement. Trying to engage that type of army composition with MMM is never going to work regardless of how well you micro the battle. | ||
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