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use depots in your base to get full vision early on instead of just putting it next to your geyser
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On September 12 2015 12:38 julyterran wrote:use depots in your base to get full vision early on instead of just putting it next to your geyser
I already do that, i also scouted the proxy gate as he placed it right in the middle of my main, still need to figure out the best way of dealing with it  So pls, someone, if you have time and know how to react, watch pls the replays, they dont take much time, and give me advice
ok PLS HELP ME!! >.<
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176997
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On September 12 2015 14:26 AleXusher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2015 12:38 julyterran wrote:use depots in your base to get full vision early on instead of just putting it next to your geyser I already do that, i also scouted the proxy gate as he placed it right in the middle of my main, still need to figure out the best way of dealing with it So pls, someone, if you have time and know how to react, watch pls the replays, they dont take much time, and give me advice ok PLS HELP ME!! >.< http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176997
cut worker production if you feel, add a 2nd rax, no gaz, add bunker in mineral line and your fine. don't even need to pull scv.
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If i dont pull SCVs his Gateway will be faster done than my Baracks so his zealot will be faster than my first marine, which is very bad.
i've read that i might be able to sneak out one scv, get gas, build a proxy factory, get 3 hellions and screw his income, behind as you said 2 rax bunker defend. What do you think about it?
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On May 23 2015 06:24 EJK wrote:
this is the correct move after you see the proxy gateway or scout that it is happening in your base
1) pull 7-8 scvs
2) attack gateway, zealot should never pop out.
3) put down command center and play macro game from ahead
Edit: I think it's funny how we're still discussing this after the game has been out for 5+ years. Shows the effectiveness of a simple build that requires little skill to execute.
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Is there a Replay i could watch where you did that EJK, or Bojay? I rly would like to see THAT work^^
Edit:
heyjo i got this game today, no clue why or how i won. To know my "build" i wanted to go for the double reactor hellion and marine attack like i saw in WCS this season. But as i scouted gasles opening and slow zerglings i went defensive for 2 tanks, cause i did wanted to be prepared vs roach attack which might happen, after i didnt saw 2 evos at ~7:00 i switched to WM production, at least that was the rough plan. So i never was able to really harras, he sniped my 4th and killed a lot of SCVs, i would like to know why i won, and what i could have done better, esp with scouting and reaction and adjusting my build/gameplan, drops where out quite late, i never pushed back creep as well, so... yeah
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6181887
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On September 16 2015 05:04 AleXusher wrote:Is there a Replay i could watch where you did that EJK, or Bojay? I rly would like to see THAT work^^ Edit:
I've faced this once and did what EJK did, and what he said seemed pretty true as we transitioned into a macro game and I won because of the macro lead. It was months ago so I don't have the replay about it, but take my (and mostly EJK's, he's high GM on NA and like mid to top GM on EU) word on it.
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A couple questions about scouting proxies vs P. I always do reaper expand.
What are the timings for when each pylon in the early game starts building? Do pros usually send out scvs as soon as they suspect something, or is it better to pull back the reaper? Can I see what they're likely to be proxying based on what's going on in their base, such as gas timings or the amount of pylons that went up in their base before the proxy?
Besides building my first supply depot at the ramp and checking behind the natural minerals with my reaper, is there anything I should do "by default" before I have a reason to suspect proxies, such as checking close proxy locations with an SCV, and if so, when and how much?
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What are some good pro replays I can watch for standard macro builds, with bio/tank composition vs T and Z and bio vs P? Early game specifics are secondary, but I currently go for reaper expand with the CC before 2nd supply depot. In TvT I then go 1/1/1, in TvP I go 3 rax, in TvZ I go 1/1/1 with reaper/hellion harass.
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On September 17 2015 06:32 J_Ason wrote:
A couple questions about scouting proxies vs P. I always do reaper expand.
What are the timings for when each pylon in the early game starts building? Do pros usually send out scvs as soon as they suspect something, or is it better to pull back the reaper? Can I see what they're likely to be proxying based on what's going on in their base, such as gas timings or the amount of pylons that went up in their base before the proxy?
Besides building my first supply depot at the ramp and checking behind the natural minerals with my reaper, is there anything I should do "by default" before I have a reason to suspect proxies, such as checking close proxy locations with an SCV, and if so, when and how much?
I send out my scouting scv as soon as I put workers in my gas. I check the back of my natural with that scv, and then send it straight to protoss's base, and I only put down my CC once I see a gateway. If I don't, I wall off my ramp with bunker/depot (which already had my first depot on it) and this is almost always fast enough to defend.
For proxies after cyber core, you know there is one if your scv gets to their base and they don't have 2 finished pylons and have 2 mining gases. If you see a missing pylon and double gas, you HAVE to build an ebay and a turret because you can't find and kill a stargate proxy in time. But you do need to look for the proxy so you can determine if it's blink or robo or stargate for sure.
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dunno if that inbase gateway protoss was the same guy i played against who beat me with it twice in a row the other day.
guy who says dont even need to pull scvs, I dont understand that, as his zealot is out before marines and before can finish bunker I think. i guess you mean just mineral walk until bunker/marine done, if he goes for bunker scvs can surround him? If you didnt wall off and built your supply depot next to your gas I can't think of a better approach than this.
However if you have walled a cool trick i used to do which always worked (before) is just float your cc to your natural and defend your wall from the lowground vs zealots
however this guy he always built a forge after gateway so he could cannon if you bunkered your mineral line and with the base positioning on the map with 3 golds his 1st cannon could hit my wall, which i didnt expect so didnt have a bunker in natural in time, I think if i built a bunker at my natural as soon as possible I would have held and won.
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On September 17 2015 06:50 J_Ason wrote:
What are some good pro replays I can watch for standard macro builds, with bio/tank composition vs T and Z and bio vs P? Early game specifics are secondary, but I currently go for reaper expand with the CC before 2nd supply depot. In TvT I then go 1/1/1, in TvP I go 3 rax, in TvZ I go 1/1/1 with reaper/hellion harass.
bio/tank isn't really standard in tvz anymore. bio mine is more common, mixing in a couple of thors versus muta late on.
Not sure about replays but demuslim streams relatively often and usually plays very standard in all matchups
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Hi, if any of you here are WoL veterans, you will have known about how Protoss can take a quick third base on certain maps, exploiting the fact that Terrans generally do not attack before Medivacs are out, which occurs around 9 minutes.
Recently, as the maps have expanded in size in HotS, and with the addition of the Mothership Core, Protoss can now take 3 bases very easily, allowing them to get a good economy, and get out at least 1 Colossi and several Stalkers out, which can then shut down harassment very easily with Photon Overcharge.
My question is, is there any way to punish a Protoss player without Medivacs before the 10th minute? MM without Medivacs is pretty awful, and sometimes with 1/1/1 openings (that get completely shut down, ie. Cloak Banshees/WM drops) I don't even have Stimpack and CS at 10 minutes. How do I prevent Protoss from getting a third base before 10 minutes, with or without 3 Barracks openers?
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In addition, TvZ is now very difficult. Bio play is now extremely hard on those very big maps like Cactus Valley, and just the walking distance weakens the strength of bio pressure, and this allows Zerg to get an astounding 80+ drones and 5 hatcheries(1 macro) and just overwhelm me with endless Zerlings and Banelings.
How to play Bio on these large maps? I tried making more WMs than usual (>15 in most of my games now) but then the Mutalisk death flock just snipes them, or sending a single ling or 2 to trigger them; I cannot stop these from happening because my Marines are very spread out off-creep, and cant kill the Mutalisks, but even if my Mines get reasonable hits(>10kills) I just get overwhelmed.
What is the appropriate tactical procedure for bio TvZ? I usually spread all my Marines off-creep, and then burrow my mines, and then send a few Marines onto creep, scan, and kill a few tumours But the thing is, he just kills this hit squad with mutas and respreads the creep. And if I just keep waiting off creep he just waits as well, and since I know he is macroing I have to walk onto creep, upon which I just die.
Is mech the new way?
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Is there any way to win when starting bio into mech vs pure turtle mech with 100 turrets?
Split maps are such a dumb game mechanic where a player can sit safe on 5 bases and just bank resources while the bio player has to effectively trade out. Pardon my salt, an hour long game where I actually think I can win, only to lose because he has such a bank is frustrating. Especially since i effectively mined more bases than him and he only won because he just sat back and massed tanks.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6184518
I don't like tank vs tank in SC2. It is super boring, and virtually impossible to achieve if you fall behind in the viking count. I did viking/thor to thin out his viking/raven and try to trade with the tanks. I denied bases/planetaries throughout the game, only to get absolutely bopped an hour in the game because he had a ridiculous bank that I cannot deny because of turrets/tanks/vikings/sensor towers. I just hate maps where a player who effectively does no aggression in the first 30 minutes can absolutely dominate you in the late game. It is sooooo boring to play against, and I really dislike the mechanics and gameplay of turtle mech.
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I haven't had the chance to play much in the last 6 months. Can someone please summarize the current meta in keywords? Big thanks!
TvZ: Still 3CC banshee?
TvT: Still many mech players?
TvP: Still widow mine drop?
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On September 19 2015 17:30 TurboMaN wrote:
I haven't had the chance to play much in the last 6 months. Can someone please summarize the current meta in keywords? Big thanks!
TvZ: Still 3CC banshee?
TvT: Still many mech players?
TvP: Still widow mine drop?
TvZ: Hellbat pushes aren´t as common as they used to be. In Korea the meta has changed heavily into mech. Most player try to turtle until they get bcs out and want to buil a really unbeateble army.
TvT: Nothing really changed. Still many gas first plays, bio and mech is both viable. I would say mech is a bit more used than bio.
TvP: Yes, still many mine drops. Scv pulls are pretty rare. Mostly VERY Drop heavy play, trying to catch collosus out of position.
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On September 17 2015 22:34 EatingBomber wrote:
Hi, if any of you here are WoL veterans, you will have known about how Protoss can take a quick third base on certain maps, exploiting the fact that Terrans generally do not attack before Medivacs are out, which occurs around 9 minutes.
Recently, as the maps have expanded in size in HotS, and with the addition of the Mothership Core, Protoss can now take 3 bases very easily, allowing them to get a good economy, and get out at least 1 Colossi and several Stalkers out, which can then shut down harassment very easily with Photon Overcharge.
My question is, is there any way to punish a Protoss player without Medivacs before the 10th minute? MM without Medivacs is pretty awful, and sometimes with 1/1/1 openings (that get completely shut down, ie. Cloak Banshees/WM drops) I don't even have Stimpack and CS at 10 minutes. How do I prevent Protoss from getting a third base before 10 minutes, with or without 3 Barracks openers?
I think the proper way to deal with this is not by killing the third, but by scouting the early third with your mine drops, and then building a 3rd CC before any extra barracks yourself. With good mine drop pressure Protoss shouldn't be able to get away with extended play on 1 gateway anyway, which rules out a third before 7 minutes, and realistically until 8 minutes (when he stabilizes against your pressure.) That's a late enough timing that you can easily put yourself even with an earlier third of your own. But if Protoss are building a 5'30 or 6' third against you, then the problem is probably with your execution, because that shouldn't happen.
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On September 17 2015 22:50 EatingBomber wrote:
In addition, TvZ is now very difficult. Bio play is now extremely hard on those very big maps like Cactus Valley, and just the walking distance weakens the strength of bio pressure, and this allows Zerg to get an astounding 80+ drones and 5 hatcheries(1 macro) and just overwhelm me with endless Zerlings and Banelings.
How to play Bio on these large maps? I tried making more WMs than usual (>15 in most of my games now) but then the Mutalisk death flock just snipes them, or sending a single ling or 2 to trigger them; I cannot stop these from happening because my Marines are very spread out off-creep, and cant kill the Mutalisks, but even if my Mines get reasonable hits(>10kills) I just get overwhelmed.
What is the appropriate tactical procedure for bio TvZ? I usually spread all my Marines off-creep, and then burrow my mines, and then send a few Marines onto creep, scan, and kill a few tumours But the thing is, he just kills this hit squad with mutas and respreads the creep. And if I just keep waiting off creep he just waits as well, and since I know he is macroing I have to walk onto creep, upon which I just die.
Is mech the new way?
The meta for bio play has shifted to 2 base starport builds a bit. (look for some of innovations replays in the recent MSI tournament for perfect examples of 2 base starport)
Some perks of 2 base starport:
- ability to control creep better, since you can't do much to control creep (with 3cc) vs good Zergs, they will have creep at their fourth base which enables them to defend it better which in turn means enough gas income to fund those big muta flocks
- keep the zerg occupied with small drops/cloakshees/vikings, most zergs won't mess up their injects/creep when they're up against a 3CC opener, it's obviously a lot harder to inject and spread creep
- economic difference is minimal, you might have less scvs, but the Zerg needs to make units so he won't drone as hard, and you will still make your third at ~8:10, so you can float out at roughly the same time as you would with a super early third
Also, it is absolutely key to keep trading with small bio armies, keep forcing new banes out of the zerg, on some maps you're almost on a timer to make something happen, if the muta flock becomes too big you're in huge trouble on a big map like Cactus Valley. If he isn't forced to make new banes and is mining out of 8 gasses, that is going to happen in no time.
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EPT
