EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 365
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On August 31 2015 17:16 LoneYoShi wrote: I'm struggling vs mech players as well. I'll try that doomdrop with raven, since I generally open raven anyway. I'm also toying with the following gameplan, and I'd like your input on it: - I generally open with a raven, 2 vikings (produced one by one), and then I add the reactor on the starport and switch to medivacs. - What if I continued with vikings instead of medivacs after the reactor to get/keep air control ? - Since I won't have medivacs, I won't be able do several attacks with my bio army, that means I'll have to concentrate everything into 1 single (all-in) attack - What I can still do however is threaten/posture around the map but never really attack unless I actually have to (stopping an incoming attack)/see a great opportunity (unsiege or something). The goal will still be to delay the third as much as possible. - My objective would be to spare some gas to add on a quick second starport with techlab (maybe cut upgrades ? or go lighter on marauders ?) in order to get additional ravens or banshees ASAP. - Once this is done (air control secured with vikings, one or two banshees), I try to force an unsiege with banshees, and then run in with my stimmed bio and landed vikings to try and end the game right there (break the third ? go for the nat/main ?). - If he doesn't unsiege, I nibble at his tanks with my air control until I've killed a few, then land my vikings/stim in anyway. I think this could have potential as a strong all-in attack against mech players. Any opinions ? I face bio/viking production into banshee on ladder occasionally, and it's easily shut down by a thor or two. It relies on not being scouted, but the problem is that mech players have scans to burn. They'll also see you quite obviously attempting to take air control with no/low medivac count and should add a thor as a precautionary measure. You'll pick up some wins with a strategy like that, but, again, it's a strategy that relies on your opponent making mistakes. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On August 31 2015 19:31 Absentia wrote: I face bio/viking production into banshee on ladder occasionally, and it's easily shut down by a thor or two. It relies on not being scouted, but the problem is that mech players have scans to burn. They'll also see you quite obviously attempting to take air control with no/low medivac count and should add a thor as a precautionary measure. You'll pick up some wins with a strategy like that, but, again, it's a strategy that relies on your opponent making mistakes. Yeah pretty much this. The only really 'consistent' way to win is to create openings by threatening multipronged attacks until an opportunity arises. If the mech player moves out, you can crush their army with a clever engagement / surround or basetrade, but it's pretty rare for mech players to move out. Good mech players just max out and split the map. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16098 Posts
On August 31 2015 18:59 AleXusher wrote: I would say, Reaper FE, scout oracle, build turret, P goes no exp at 5:30 ? Evac to your main, get bunker and turret, pull SCVs and repair bunker, either go Marine Medic WM, or mass Marine with Combat Shield, keep reaper active to see if he expands. Evacuating to the main is a bad idea in my experience because the protoss can then just decide to contain you on 1 base and expand behind. It becomes really hard to retake your natural and once you've done it the protoss is already ahead or at least even. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On August 31 2015 19:50 Pursuit_ wrote: Yeah pretty much this. The only really 'consistent' way to win is to create openings by threatening multipronged attacks until an opportunity arises. If the mech player moves out, you can crush their army with a clever engagement / surround or basetrade, but it's pretty rare for mech players to move out. Good mech players just max out and split the map. I don't think you can win a maxed fight against mech with bio/biomech, even with a good spread/concave. Not unless he blunders massively (super late siege, move command, no vikings to protect from drops on tanks, etc). So there's basically no other way than multitasking like crazy, hoping he has a blindspot in his turret ring/sensor tower coverage and never lose a drop for free because he can just counter attack for the win ? Hmm. I guess that's the reason why most pros go for mech nowadays. It's just so... boring. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
i had that game: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6170796 And the guy i played told me "i was fricking bad" and gambled a lot with my reaction. So aside that i think that he is super arrogant, i would like to know if i had only luck, if my reactions where rly bad, and if what i should have done instead. Thank you very much  | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
On September 01 2015 00:12 LoneYoShi wrote: I don't think you can win a maxed fight against mech with bio/biomech, even with a good spread/concave. Not unless he blunders massively (super late siege, move command, no vikings to protect from drops on tanks, etc). So there's basically no other way than multitasking like crazy, hoping he has a blindspot in his turret ring/sensor tower coverage and never lose a drop for free because he can just counter attack for the win ? Hmm. I guess that's the reason why most pros go for mech nowadays. It's just so... boring. So ive played this super long TvT today which i would like to share: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6171841 It was Bio vs Mech with a transition into Skyterran vs Skyterran, BC, Viking Raven with some bio CAN win vs Mech, but it takes a long time tbh^^ | ||
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NexT_SC2
United States117 Posts
Thanks | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On September 09 2015 06:34 NexT_SC2 wrote: So are banshee openers not as efficient right now in tvz? I do a cc first into 6 reactor hellion into cloak banshee build(no hellbats) with 3rd base, 2nd and 3rd rax, and double ebay behind it. It seems that a lot of zergs are just putting spores in their mineral lines(pretty sure they didn't scout) to deflect hellbat banshee stuff. So then should I just skip the banshee for a faster 3rd? btw I play bio mine or bio hellbat thor, no mech. Thanks You can skip the banshee, but even with spores you should be able to find enough damage to make the game even if you open CC first. Banshee build (in any matchup) really isn't a cheese; you shouldn't be pushed away by spores alone, and with good play you should either always find drones or just delay zerg's econ and keep their creep spread very, very far back. | ||
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NexT_SC2
United States117 Posts
How do i deal with Roach Hydra 2/2 Timing attack? I was told from a GM that i should go double Starport Medivac and mass bio with 2:1 Marine/Marrauder Ratio, but it seems i die everytime. Do i need to go 2-3 Fax Tanks instead? But he told me not to do, it wouldn't be neceesaary I'm not too great myself but I'll say what little knowledge I have. Once bio gets around max supply on even or better upgrades, it is supposed to roll over roach hydra. Idk about the double starport part as it seems unorthodox but your described response seems very greedy and relies on having just enough units/ stuff to defend(when did the gm tell you this?). What you can do is produce tanks off of just 1 or maybe 2 factories if you want to help defend(doesn't take away too much from your bio army). 2:1 Marine/Marauder ratio seems a bit too many marines(although if you are up on upgrades you probably could get away with it). You want a lot of marauders to kill the roaches faster and soak some hydra dmg. Make sure you get your upgrade as bio trades well with roach hydra on even upgrades. Then just setup a concave and wait for the timing. You might have to lift your third if it's too difficult to defend or for some reason you don't have enough units. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On September 07 2015 19:29 AleXusher wrote: So ive played this super long TvT today which i would like to share: http://ggtracker.com/matches/6171841 It was Bio vs Mech with a transition into Skyterran vs Skyterran, BC, Viking Raven with some bio CAN win vs Mech, but it takes a long time tbh^^ I'll look into your game, thanks ! On September 10 2015 07:09 NexT_SC2 wrote: I'm not too great myself but I'll say what little knowledge I have. Once bio gets around max supply on even or better upgrades, it is supposed to roll over roach hydra. Idk about the double starport part as it seems unorthodox but your described response seems very greedy and relies on having just enough units/ stuff to defend(when did the gm tell you this?). What you can do is produce tanks off of just 1 or maybe 2 factories if you want to help defend(doesn't take away too much from your bio army). 2:1 Marine/Marauder ratio seems a bit too many marines(although if you are up on upgrades you probably could get away with it). You want a lot of marauders to kill the roaches faster and soak some hydra dmg. Make sure you get your upgrade as bio trades well with roach hydra on even upgrades. Then just setup a concave and wait for the timing. You might have to lift your third if it's too difficult to defend or for some reason you don't have enough units. When I try to go pure bio against roach or roach/hydra and play it defensive, I get stomped because at the time of their 2-2 timing attack, they have way more supply than I do. So I get overwhelmed despite having a concave and similar/better upgrades. In my experience, having a few tanks doesn't make a big difference: you need to have either a good amount (~8 or more), or you can skip them. Having 3-4 won't really change much. I've had more success holding this attack by going super active with drops as soon as I saw my opponent going roaches or roach/hydra. Force him to be defensive, to split his army into smaller pieces, to rebuild drones, to add spines/spores, etc. Do everything you can to delay him, but don't waste your troops either. The later his attack hits, the better for you (roach hydra doesn't scale well in the lategame when your own supply grows and nears max). If you manage to get to 170-180 supply or more, then you should be able to win a direct engagement with decent concave. Also, if you manage to delay their attack enough and/or he changed his plans and doesn't attack, consider adding 4-6 vikings to your army as zergs will probably be getting vipers. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
i lost hard in this game http://ggtracker.com/matches/6174888 how do i win vs roach hydra into Bane, speedling Ultra? I see no way winning! | ||
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wjat
385 Posts
On September 10 2015 16:54 LoneYoShi wrote: I'll look into your game, thanks ! When I try to go pure bio against roach or roach/hydra and play it defensive, I get stomped because at the time of their 2-2 timing attack, they have way more supply than I do. So I get overwhelmed despite having a concave and similar/better upgrades. In my experience, having a few tanks doesn't make a big difference: you need to have either a good amount (~8 or more), or you can skip them. Having 3-4 won't really change much. I've had more success holding this attack by going super active with drops as soon as I saw my opponent going roaches or roach/hydra. Force him to be defensive, to split his army into smaller pieces, to rebuild drones, to add spines/spores, etc. Do everything you can to delay him, but don't waste your troops either. The later his attack hits, the better for you (roach hydra doesn't scale well in the lategame when your own supply grows and nears max). If you manage to get to 170-180 supply or more, then you should be able to win a direct engagement with decent concave. Also, if you manage to delay their attack enough and/or he changed his plans and doesn't attack, consider adding 4-6 vikings to your army as zergs will probably be getting vipers. "Having 3-4 won't really change much." Well I think it will make a huge difference, 3-4 tanks supported by bio just rekt Roach Hydra 2-2 timming. And I think tanks are one of the best way you can defend vs 2-2 Roach Hydra, if you went bio. people blame terran for playing mech, but it allows the terran to be generally safe vs this type of builds." | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 10 2015 21:30 wjat wrote: yea 3-4 tanks are a big deal against roach hydra for sure. i'm a z player but generally the response i see from top terrans is to build 1-2 tanks against upgraded roaches and continue tank production upon scouting hydra den. literally the entire point of 2 2 roach hydra is to outproduce bio and take one big fight at the third base to win you the game, and tanks in the back do make a big difference, even just 2+. if the game continues from there z needs 4 base gas for viper transition as he said which opens him up even more for drop harass."Having 3-4 won't really change much." Well I think it will make a huge difference, 3-4 tanks supported by bio just rekt Roach Hydra 2-2 timming. And I think tanks are one of the best way you can defend vs 2-2 Roach Hydra, if you went bio. people blame terran for playing mech, but it allows the terran to be generally safe vs this type of builds." | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176167 | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On September 11 2015 22:17 AleXusher wrote: how do i scout a 2 base bane bust? He even pulled out Drones out of gas to trick me, so how can i tell? Because it is very risky for the reaper to stay to long, as speed will finish. Help pls http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176167 You can't reliably scout it but you can defend it with good reaper-hellion micro. Your hellions should have been earlier, so you should have had 2 already finished with another 2 on the way. In that case you just pull back into your main if you haven't walled your natural and delay for 6 hellions. If they baneling bust you before you have 6 hellions their ling count will be lower, so you should be able to hold with less, as long as you don't lose hellions and block with scvs appropriately. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176449 ok i played him again, this time i won but i dont feel good about it <.< http://ggtracker.com/matches/6176453 | ||
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