Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
On March 15 2013 22:22 tisalgado wrote: question: how does one dodge storms?
I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do)
but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting...
if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots...
really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat...
is there a proper way to engage I'm missing?
Are you not making Ghosts to deal with the Templar? Generally if you're at the super late game and the Toss has a mixture of a Colossus force and a Templar force you really need Ghosts with Cloak, scan away the observer and go in and try to snipe/EMP the HT before the engagement. Trying to engage that type of army composition with MMM is never going to work regardless of how well you micro the battle.
I am making ghosts, but one of the 2 situations usually occurr: 1- I don't have enough snipes/emp, and when I think it's safe to engage he had 2 or 3 spare storms, and that kills me 2- I have enough ghosts and kill/emp all his HTs... when this is the case, sometimes I win the battle (rare ocasion), more often he retreats and adds HT for the next engagement (meaning I only won some positioning, but I'm usually not good enough to capitalize on that)... but more often than not, when I'm able to snipe/emp all his stuff, I get rolled by the remaining zealots... (as in I didn't have enough army to back that up)...
My main problem, I believe, is that as a former zerg, when I look at my terran army and at my oponent's army, I'm bad at judging if I should be able to win the fight or not...
On March 15 2013 10:32 airbagface wrote: quick cuestion: is it better to target fire with a+click or just right click?
Really this can come down to preference, but A+Click is safer in the case of a miss-click.
If you missed the right click, you have now ordered those units to move to the target location which will stop all shooting. While if you were A+Clicking you will simply attack whatever those units are close to
On March 15 2013 22:22 tisalgado wrote: question: how does one dodge storms?
I mean the colossus + HT late game army... when there are only zealot archon HT, I can go for cost efficient trades with MMM the same way I'd deal with ling bane... (not great, but I understand what to do)
but when engaging a complete protoss army, I have no Idea what to do... whenever I start to get close, colossi start dishing pain.... if I engage he storms... I can then see these 2 options: retreat or move forward to try to avoid the storm while still fighting...
if I retreat, I just lost units for nothing on the colossi (when aproaching and when retreating) and lost a position. if I try to keep engaging, I get another storm and chopped apart by the zealots...
really, I have no clue on how to deal with lategame protoss army... I tried adding in some hellbats to deal with the zealots, but that made it even worse because they are not fast enough to run from the storms and colossi when I decide to retreat...
is there a proper way to engage I'm missing?
Are you not making Ghosts to deal with the Templar? Generally if you're at the super late game and the Toss has a mixture of a Colossus force and a Templar force you really need Ghosts with Cloak, scan away the observer and go in and try to snipe/EMP the HT before the engagement. Trying to engage that type of army composition with MMM is never going to work regardless of how well you micro the battle.
I am making ghosts, but one of the 2 situations usually occurr: 1- I don't have enough snipes/emp, and when I think it's safe to engage he had 2 or 3 spare storms, and that kills me 2- I have enough ghosts and kill/emp all his HTs... when this is the case, sometimes I win the battle (rare ocasion), more often he retreats and adds HT for the next engagement (meaning I only won some positioning, but I'm usually not good enough to capitalize on that)... but more often than not, when I'm able to snipe/emp all his stuff, I get rolled by the remaining zealots... (as in I didn't have enough army to back that up)...
My main problem, I believe, is that as a former zerg, when I look at my terran army and at my oponent's army, I'm bad at judging if I should be able to win the fight or not...
There are some simple rules of thumb for judging the strength of a Protoss army versus your Terran composition. It mostly comes down to countering his units with supply. So for every 1 Colossus you want 3 Vikings. For every 1 HT you want 1 Ghost. For every 1 Zealot you want 2 marines. For every Stalker you want a Marauder. If your composition is way out of proportion to what he has you can generally understand if you will win or lose the fight. Obviously these numbers are flexible and far from "the whole story" but they're a good starting point for judgement. But in the latter part of the game you really need to try and keep your Vikings and Ghosts in proportion to the number of high tech units Protoss has on the field.
Also speed medivacs in HOTS add another dimension to the Terran army where you can split up his APM and army trying to do multiple things at once. Generally what a Protoss has to send to deal with a drop is greater than the threat of those units if they're added to the ball.
I'm here to get some advice of how to hold an 1 base voidray all-in because even if I know it is coming I cannot defend it at all and with the first bunker going down it is basically over.
My level: ~rank 10 masters in both hots beta and wol
Description: - I open like Polt does in TvP: rax, gas, 2 marines then a reaper then 2 more rax (see replay for more detail) - I saw his probe scouting early and leaving my base early so after I saw no expansion and additional buildings with my reaper scout I knew he would proxy either void rays or oracles / dt's - By the time my reaper scouts the stargate I immediately build an engineering bay because I thought he might go for 2 void rays and then harass my back with MSC and 1 oracle or something so I need static defense. - I feel like I can not get addons onto my rax or I will just die because the bunkers are empty - I pull scv's right at the time to repair and also got stim when he pushed in - My bunker goes down instantly although I repair with a whole bunch of scv's right at the time - I wanted to get my faktory to produce widow mines cause he got no detection but by the time my faktory finishes I'm already dead
What frustrates me: A player that is not on my level can pull out a game from me with a simple a-move even if I 1) knew it is coming 2) got 2 bunkers up and scvs to repair 3) scoutet the allin and the proxy 4) did no major mistake in my opinion (the time window you got to micro which will decide the game is like 10 seconds)
So I don't really know how to open economic and still be save against this allin
did anyone catch innovation vs huk game 2? demuslim has been doing that build on his stream tvp but I'm misunderstanding something about it.
what is the gas timing? I went through some of demuslim's vods but it's a tedious way to find it, especially since it's hardly the only tvp build he's doing.
the one I found from the last few days has him taking gas @ 15 but I'm curious if anyone caught exactly how innovation did it.
it's reactor-on-rax expand, then adds a fac and starport off 1 gas to do a 4 marine/2 mine drop. then you add 2 rax and a tech lab on the fac and starport to start mmm upgrades.
it's a great build obviously but I am just trying to get the exact gas timing down.
don't have the MLG pass for this event (although I expect by the end of tomorrow's games I'll buy it just to steal builds) but if I can grab this one from someone here that'd be great.
So I'd say I'm somewhere between Noob and Experienced as a player. I'm hoping to become a really good player. So after playing a lot of 1v1 Obs and learning from people, I ranked up from low-mid silver to low-mid gold. A lot of the problems I still have are scouting, harassing, and changing strategies. Changing strategies would have to be my biggest problem. Once I find a strategy that wins me a good amount of games, I get too comfortable with it, and stick with it, but this is a problem when 1 enemy develops a build that counters it. So my first question is, how can i get out of my comfort zone? My next questions are semi-related. But I was wondering on how to analyze a game I'm in. How and what do I look for in a game to figure out what someone is doing. Let's say my enemy is getting a gas at a certain time after or before a certain building, how do I figure out what he's working for. I know you can't figure out every single branch off from something, but what's a good basis for knowing. And also, what's a good way to figure out what to counter with? So after figuring out that they're going for a certain build, how do I know that I need to go marauders, or that I can go ahead and expand, etc. I'm gold level rank 58 currently. My main strategy that I seem to stick with a lot is Marines Marauders Medivacs with a few Widow Mines, this works well against zerg most of the time, but I do terrible against terran and zerg. Help please?
On March 16 2013 09:20 Vari wrote: did anyone catch innovation vs huk game 2? demuslim has been doing that build on his stream tvp but I'm misunderstanding something about it.
what is the gas timing? I went through some of demuslim's vods but it's a tedious way to find it, especially since it's hardly the only tvp build he's doing.
the one I found from the last few days has him taking gas @ 15 but I'm curious if anyone caught exactly how innovation did it.
it's reactor-on-rax expand, then adds a fac and starport off 1 gas to do a 4 marine/2 mine drop. then you add 2 rax and a tech lab on the fac and starport to start mmm upgrades.
it's a great build obviously but I am just trying to get the exact gas timing down.
don't have the MLG pass for this event (although I expect by the end of tomorrow's games I'll buy it just to steal builds) but if I can grab this one from someone here that'd be great.
The Reaper FE Demuslim does is a 14 gas, the WM drop from MVP @ IEM is 15 gas.
So for WM Drop 12 Rax 15 Gas 16 Marine 17 Orbital 20 Reactor (Rax) 20 Command Center 21 Factory 30 Starport/Mine
2 Mines, 4 Marines load into Medivac as it pops, and go go go. I kill with this build ^^ also love demuslim's Reaper FE though to ^^ can use it into WM drop as well so.
I'm here to get some advice of how to hold an 1 base voidray all-in because even if I know it is coming I cannot defend it at all and with the first bunker going down it is basically over.
My level: ~rank 10 masters in both hots beta and wol
Description: - I open like Polt does in TvP: rax, gas, 2 marines then a reaper then 2 more rax (see replay for more detail) - I saw his probe scouting early and leaving my base early so after I saw no expansion and additional buildings with my reaper scout I knew he would proxy either void rays or oracles / dt's - By the time my reaper scouts the stargate I immediately build an engineering bay because I thought he might go for 2 void rays and then harass my back with MSC and 1 oracle or something so I need static defense. - I feel like I can not get addons onto my rax or I will just die because the bunkers are empty - I pull scv's right at the time to repair and also got stim when he pushed in - My bunker goes down instantly although I repair with a whole bunch of scv's right at the time - I wanted to get my faktory to produce widow mines cause he got no detection but by the time my faktory finishes I'm already dead
What frustrates me: A player that is not on my level can pull out a game from me with a simple a-move even if I 1) knew it is coming 2) got 2 bunkers up and scvs to repair 3) scoutet the allin and the proxy 4) did no major mistake in my opinion (the time window you got to micro which will decide the game is like 10 seconds)
So I don't really know how to open economic and still be save against this allin
I would appreciate any thoughts on this.
Greetings Spex
I'm watchting the replay right now.
- I like your APM spam, you get 300 APM at the start, but once the game starts your apm drops to 60~120. Giving you a false indication of what your real apm is actually like. - You're not really spending your money as well as you could be. - You are sacreficing marines because of a bad rally
Protoss has more APM, Protoss was spending his money better. I don't see how he was worse than you in any way, shape or form.
9:00 you GG... WHAT? The game wasn't decided yet, you had a widow mine on the way and he had no form of detection.
If you can't handle a voidray all-in from 2 bases, consider going back on 1. You will still be ahead and you don't have to invest as much in defense so it doesn't really matter anyway.
So.. I'm basically pretty much lost with HotS. I feel like I'm playing a completely different game and have no idea what I'm doing. I mean, I'm a silver level player, so I do marginally better than someone rolling their face over their keyboard, but at least in WoL I had a vague idea what what going on and why.
Now... I have no clue. I feel like everyone is pumping out more units, and they're doing it faster. I also have no idea how to use any of the new stuff, what all of the new stuff is, or how to counter it. I was doing 1rax FE builds in WoL, but apparently those are kind of out the door now. Unless I'm wrong. Also, it seems Reapers are a thing now, but every time I try to use them, they fall apart like tissue paper and just waste my resources. Hellbats are fun, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Widow Mines are pretty sweet, but I have no inkling what to actually do with them besides parking a bunch of them outside the enemy base and hope they don't move out with detection.
It's like I've completely forgotten how to play the game. Either that, or I never really learned. Is there anything that can help me?
On March 16 2013 09:20 Vari wrote: did anyone catch innovation vs huk game 2? demuslim has been doing that build on his stream tvp but I'm misunderstanding something about it.
what is the gas timing? I went through some of demuslim's vods but it's a tedious way to find it, especially since it's hardly the only tvp build he's doing.
the one I found from the last few days has him taking gas @ 15 but I'm curious if anyone caught exactly how innovation did it.
it's reactor-on-rax expand, then adds a fac and starport off 1 gas to do a 4 marine/2 mine drop. then you add 2 rax and a tech lab on the fac and starport to start mmm upgrades.
it's a great build obviously but I am just trying to get the exact gas timing down.
don't have the MLG pass for this event (although I expect by the end of tomorrow's games I'll buy it just to steal builds) but if I can grab this one from someone here that'd be great.
Odd you guys are just seeing the 15 gas openers - The thing about this is that you can ALLOW the protoss to see you have no gas, he leaves before you can close off the doors, you get gas asap. You still expand, but the early gas timing allows you to be very meta.
Back when all protosses were doing were 5 gate allins or nexus/ double expands vs 1 rax FE, reactor on rax into marine tank from this opener was amazing for me
On March 16 2013 19:17 ooweeookillertofu wrote: So.. I'm basically pretty much lost with HotS. I feel like I'm playing a completely different game and have no idea what I'm doing. I mean, I'm a silver level player, so I do marginally better than someone rolling their face over their keyboard, but at least in WoL I had a vague idea what what going on and why.
Now... I have no clue. I feel like everyone is pumping out more units, and they're doing it faster. I also have no idea how to use any of the new stuff, what all of the new stuff is, or how to counter it. I was doing 1rax FE builds in WoL, but apparently those are kind of out the door now. Unless I'm wrong. Also, it seems Reapers are a thing now, but every time I try to use them, they fall apart like tissue paper and just waste my resources. Hellbats are fun, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Widow Mines are pretty sweet, but I have no inkling what to actually do with them besides parking a bunch of them outside the enemy base and hope they don't move out with detection.
It's like I've completely forgotten how to play the game. Either that, or I never really learned. Is there anything that can help me?
If you were any good in WoL with terran, the changes made in HotS should be super comfortable. (Dropship improvement, space controller, aoe buff unit)
1 rax FE is still tried and true AFAIK, reapers/widow mine aggression openers are APM intensive, and if you dont like it, dont use them. Stick to what you know first and slowly introduce yourself to the new units is much, much better.
Hellbats are amazing for mech vs protoss, or specifically, mech vs bio in TvT - you CANNOT just go marauders against mech now with the firebat upgrade - they dont die fast enough to marauders, and going heavy marines vs mech is suicide.
Widowmines are very, very good at controlling space against terran and zerg, since the splash damage will easily kill off a huge group of ling/blings, snipe a muta or two, and it forces the opponent to play very careful once they know the risk of walking over those.
But really, take it slow. Theres not reason to suddenly to using all the new units into your games. Stick to standard WoL openers and gently tweak towards the new metagame.
On March 16 2013 09:20 Vari wrote: did anyone catch innovation vs huk game 2? demuslim has been doing that build on his stream tvp but I'm misunderstanding something about it.
what is the gas timing? I went through some of demuslim's vods but it's a tedious way to find it, especially since it's hardly the only tvp build he's doing.
the one I found from the last few days has him taking gas @ 15 but I'm curious if anyone caught exactly how innovation did it.
it's reactor-on-rax expand, then adds a fac and starport off 1 gas to do a 4 marine/2 mine drop. then you add 2 rax and a tech lab on the fac and starport to start mmm upgrades.
it's a great build obviously but I am just trying to get the exact gas timing down.
don't have the MLG pass for this event (although I expect by the end of tomorrow's games I'll buy it just to steal builds) but if I can grab this one from someone here that'd be great.
Odd you guys are just seeing the 15 gas openers - The thing about this is that you can ALLOW the protoss to see you have no gas, he leaves before you can close off the doors, you get gas asap. You still expand, but the early gas timing allows you to be very meta.
Back when all protosses were doing were 5 gate allins or nexus/ double expands vs 1 rax FE, reactor on rax into marine tank from this opener was amazing for me
On March 16 2013 19:17 ooweeookillertofu wrote: So.. I'm basically pretty much lost with HotS. I feel like I'm playing a completely different game and have no idea what I'm doing. I mean, I'm a silver level player, so I do marginally better than someone rolling their face over their keyboard, but at least in WoL I had a vague idea what what going on and why.
Now... I have no clue. I feel like everyone is pumping out more units, and they're doing it faster. I also have no idea how to use any of the new stuff, what all of the new stuff is, or how to counter it. I was doing 1rax FE builds in WoL, but apparently those are kind of out the door now. Unless I'm wrong. Also, it seems Reapers are a thing now, but every time I try to use them, they fall apart like tissue paper and just waste my resources. Hellbats are fun, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Widow Mines are pretty sweet, but I have no inkling what to actually do with them besides parking a bunch of them outside the enemy base and hope they don't move out with detection.
It's like I've completely forgotten how to play the game. Either that, or I never really learned. Is there anything that can help me?
If you were any good in WoL with terran, the changes made in HotS should be super comfortable. (Dropship improvement, space controller, aoe buff unit)
1 rax FE is still tried and true AFAIK, reapers/widow mine aggression openers are APM intensive, and if you dont like it, dont use them. Stick to what you know first and slowly introduce yourself to the new units is much, much better.
Hellbats are amazing for mech vs protoss, or specifically, mech vs bio in TvT - you CANNOT just go marauders against mech now with the firebat upgrade - they dont die fast enough to marauders, and going heavy marines vs mech is suicide.
Widowmines are very, very good at controlling space against terran and zerg, since the splash damage will easily kill off a huge group of ling/blings, snipe a muta or two, and it forces the opponent to play very careful once they know the risk of walking over those.
But really, take it slow. Theres not reason to suddenly to using all the new units into your games. Stick to standard WoL openers and gently tweak towards the new metagame.
Do you guys know some good terran who plays Mech vs Z? I would like to see some Games to see what to do. I sometimes get caught by Mutas or early Broods. And Siege-Mushrooms are also pretty hard to deal with if the Z is good.
On March 16 2013 21:44 Talos[GER] wrote: Do you guys know some good terran who plays Mech vs Z? I would like to see some Games to see what to do. I sometimes get caught by Mutas or early Broods. And Siege-Mushrooms are also pretty hard to deal with if the Z is good.
How are you opening? I really like quick Reapers into Hellion/Mine contains for 3CC mech, just because it forces lings/defense rather than Drones. Zerg can deal well with mech when they are unimpeded and go for Vipers, because Abduct/Blinding Cloud is SO good versus Tanks. Once you've established it, you can just do repeated Hellion run-bys to keep gas drone counts low (i.e. no Mutas/Broods), and Turret rings in case of 2-base Spire play.
As for games, have you checked out all the VoDs from IEM and MLG as they go up? I can't remember how many games are mech versus Z, but looking at MVP, Yoda, and Flash should tell you how to play Terran.
As for games, have you checked out all the VoDs from IEM and MLG as they go up? I can't remember how many games are mech versus Z, but looking at MVP, Yoda, and Flash should tell you how to play Terran.
As for games, have you checked out all the VoDs from IEM and MLG as they go up? I can't remember how many games are mech versus Z, but looking at MVP, Yoda, and Flash should tell you how to play Terran.
They all play Bio...
I'm pretty sure Yoda played mech once or twice. Also, Flash played mech against Bly yesterday I believe, and there's obviously more MLG games over the weekend for you to check out.
Quick Question what is a solid build vs Zerg At the moent! I feel like going widow mine drops into expo is too predictable now! Zergs tend to get that 1 spore at every base!
EPT
