EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 4
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On March 14 2013 20:38 Mongolbonjwa wrote: What do you guys think on my build. I open with reapers, then build factory and barracks and then starport. Reactor on factory to make double widow mines constantly, and constantly producing medivacs, one tech labbed and one reactored barracks, producing marauders and marines then dropping around with many widow mines. I have won all my games against zergs that go zerglings and baneling. -_- Replay? | ||
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Ruiz
5 Posts
I just want to trought out there my standart builds in WoL (they work pretty well for gold level) and see if you have any suggestions for me to adapt in HoTS: TvT: 2 cloacked banshee harass followed by push with 2 or 3 tanks push at their natural with vision from vikins. TvZ: I have being working on Bomber 3 base all-in TvZ (Day[9] #530) TvP: 15 CC followed by 6Rax push, then transition to vikings, medivacs and marauders (and working on y ghost EMPs against HT) Any thoughts? Best. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On March 14 2013 21:29 Ruiz wrote: Hi All, I just want to trought out there my standart builds in WoL (they work pretty well for gold level) and see if you have any suggestions for me to adapt in HoTS: TvT: 2 cloacked banshee harass followed by push with 2 or 3 tanks push at their natural with vision from vikins. TvZ: I have being working on Bomber 3 base all-in TvZ (Day[9] #530) TvP: 15 CC followed by 6Rax push, then transition to vikings, medivacs and marauders (and working on y ghost EMPs against HT) Any thoughts? Best. how do you stop the stalker mothership core harrass with cc first? | ||
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mika0023
Germany11 Posts
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Ruiz
5 Posts
On March 14 2013 21:36 tisalgado wrote: how do you stop the stalker mothership core harrass with cc first? So far I have being able to hold 4 gate push with a few bunkers and then push. Do you think that the MC + stalker would be harder? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
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butchji
Germany1531 Posts
On March 14 2013 18:59 uNreaLTT wrote: Well obviously you would have marines and bunkers but even then you would need to delay the opponent long enough to break whatever contain or get whatever tech, it's a build what im going to work on anyways  You can deactive the mine to avoid exploding on a single ling though. I think it should be pretty standard to deactivate it if its purely defensive infront of your base vs Z. | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
On March 14 2013 07:55 kollin wrote: In my opinion mines and a decent amount of hellbats are good. If you're in a position where you can easily sim city with supply depots/turrets that's ideal, so the locusts have to get through repairable, fairly tanks buildings before they can even touch your tanks. I think you're right about simcitying, but when on the offense that's pretty hard to do... and I find the issue to be twofold, one is actually getting to the swarm hosts in between waves, and the other is avoiding friendly fire splash while still taking out the locusts without any (significant) losses, and well, widow mines are pretty good at causing friendly fire, so it seems slightly risky. I'll try out having a more widow mine/hellbat heavy comp and less tanks and see if it works any better, but either the issue is just my macro vs my friend's or there might be some other solution than what you proposed. I'd like more input from more people on how to deal with swarm hosts as mech. | ||
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Endarr
Canada1 Post
Additionally, this type of thread is incredibly helpful for someone like me who just picked up the game and am trying to not be garbage at it. Thank you to all the contributors. | ||
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BurgerFreak
Denmark37 Posts
Guys try this build TvZ.. it seems far more powerful in HOTS now than in WoL.. Why? Because a) Hellions can now transform into hellbats, and they can even take more dmg from lings +baneling, making thors even stronger and survive longer vs roach and muta.. b) Thors can even kill broodlords now, with their secondary weapon upgrade, you can switch .. gglords c) Fungal growth and infestors have since WoL been nerfed in HOTS = good Basically, mass 0-2 armor thors, hellbats, scvs for repair, and sprinkle marines for help vs mutas etc.. and just alliin him on 2 bases like the strat says... and pressure a little if u can early... Sounds pretty strong no ? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On March 14 2013 16:56 TurboMaN wrote: Is there a way to play TvZ with the 4M build when Zerg switches to Roach/Hydra? I haven't found a way without switching from Mines to tanks. Tanks are pretty much a necessity against roach/hydra, especially when vipers come into play. In WoL, pure bio would usually come out ahead of roach/hydra (just) in a maxed fight, but blinding cloud and the ability to use abduct to whittle down the medivac count really limits how much you can do on a pure bio composition. On March 14 2013 17:03 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: I respectfully disagree as I hate the standard macro style that most pro terrans play. I believe that it's best to base your play around your style so if he feels he can play good with reapers & banshees than he can refine his build from there. Personally I almost always open up aggressive such as gas first banshee into 1/1/1 pressure vs T/Z/P followed up by an expansion as being very aggressive opens up the window for your opponent to slip up and make mistakes while you build up an army safely as you're on the offense. You can end the game right from the get go opening up aggressive and you're safe against most all ins and pressure builds as you're aiming for an army early on vs econ. Personally I can't stand playing passive as Terran it's almost as though the race was designed to be aggressive with all of the harass units available early on not to mention siege tech is gone so you can hit with a 1/1/1 pressure or all in (depending on how much harass damage you do and scouting) very, very fast now. I used to be high masters and there are some pros that play the same style as me but I can't stand the whole sit back and macro style (fast expanding first) that players like polt and MVP play with for the most part. I'm not saying he has to do the standard. Nor am I saying he has to fast expand all the time. What I was saying that what I thought he was doing was inefficient and worse than other aggressive options. On March 14 2013 17:14 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: From what I've seen in my games so far 1/1/1 is still very viable and even more powerful than it was in WoL. You can hit with it and be at their base around the 7:30 mark with 3 tanks, handful of marines, and Raven with enough energy for PDD's/HSM or vikings. 1/1/1 is not really viable any more, as if your opponent got an MSC it delays your push to the point of uselessness. While tanks outrange a nexus cannon with absolutely perfect positioning, you still can't get vision of the nexus without an air unit. Which will be shot by the nexus cannon. It's a vicious circle, and I don't think 1/1/1 in it's current form can break it. On March 14 2013 17:42 uNreaLTT wrote: is rax cc, cc viable with widow mine defense in tvx, the only insta lost seems double proxy reapers, am i way off in thinking this ?? I don't think it's particularly viable. You lose to all one base aggression, especially blink stalkers, early two base roach pushes, and honestly with good micro from the Zerg you'd be pretty helpless against fast mutas. That's just off the top of my head, so personally I would not use that on the ladder. On March 14 2013 20:14 panicz wrote: Wow, my first few games of HOTS and I feel so lost. It seems like I don't know how to play this game anymore. I have a question regarding TvT - is it better to expand after 1 rax reaper or should I get a factory first? Expand first is much better, it doesn't significantly delay your widow mines and you obviously have that slightly superior economy to a player who went factory first. On March 14 2013 21:29 Ruiz wrote: Hi All, I just want to trought out there my standart builds in WoL (they work pretty well for gold level) and see if you have any suggestions for me to adapt in HoTS: TvT: 2 cloacked banshee harass followed by push with 2 or 3 tanks push at their natural with vision from vikins. TvZ: I have being working on Bomber 3 base all-in TvZ (Day[9] #530) TvP: 15 CC followed by 6Rax push, then transition to vikings, medivacs and marauders (and working on y ghost EMPs against HT) Any thoughts? Best. On March 14 2013 02:52 kollin wrote: The standard opener for TvT is reaper expand (no marines), into widow mines for defence. Then you can transition into either mech or marine tank, depending on map/preference. For TvP, it is either 1 rax FE or once again a reaper opening, and for TvZ it can be reapers, or hellion banshee (though that is risky because your opponent might go for muta play). In terms of core units, it is mostly the same. In all matchups, it is not a bad idea to mix in widow mines for defence. Obviously you want hellbats if you are going mech and your opponent is going for a lot of direct attacks, but if you are going pure bio in TvZ and TvP they are also very good to mix in. Don't rely on them as a core unit though, they should be there to supplement the main bio force and provide a bit of additional AoE damage. On March 15 2013 00:40 Endarr wrote: Hey guys, incredibly sorry if this seems lazy but I keep seeing reference to YoDa's games in IEM as a good starting point for the match ups as they are apparently standard. I have been looking but I seriously have no idea where to look any more. I tried under the "video" section here with a array of different searches. I tried googling it (obviously) and got overwhelmed with possible information. If someone could link the VOD's in question or point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated. Additionally, this type of thread is incredibly helpful for someone like me who just picked up the game and am trying to not be garbage at it. Thank you to all the contributors. http://en.esl.tv/channel/cvideos/esltv-sc2/ The ESL website is still a pain in the arse to navigate  | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On March 14 2013 22:03 Ruiz wrote: So far I have being able to hold 4 gate push with a few bunkers and then push. Do you think that the MC + stalker would be harder? It'd be earlier... going 12 rax 15cc it gets to my base when I have 3 marines or so... also, bunkers in the front won't save you from mommacore in your mineral line | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Often my economy is significantly stronger then my Protoss opponent but since I lose all the lategame battles no matter what composition I use, the matchup feels unplayable. I hate matchups where micro decides the game even on lower levels. In TvT and TvZ you can win by being strategically smarter and having better macro, in TvP you lose if you micro is not better than your opponents, no matter how much better you play. I can take down Zerg Master players but have a 30% winrate against Plat Protoss basically. | ||
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ff7legend
United States213 Posts
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On March 15 2013 04:03 ff7legend wrote: How do you deal with 4gate blink. I am constantly scouting their gas and even their gates, but unless i see the twilight i still have no clue what they could be doing. It could be 4 gate with alot sentries, proxy voidrays, dts, etc. And if for some reason i do scout their twilight, where do i put bunkers and such so that i can actually defend the attack. the answer is in the original OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694 + Show Spoiler + Q. If I 1 rax FE into 3 rax, how to hold Blink Stalkers all-ins? - Hide Spoiler [Answer] - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TheDwf wrote: Against Blink Stalkers all-ins I never have troubles when scouting it early. Signs are: - 2 gas; - 3 Pylons in his base (and thus no proxy) with one of them being able to fuel a building in the back of his base (outside of common scan areas); - A favorable map (e. g. Daybreak and Entombed Valley are impractical due to the map layout); - No Zealot, no Sentries (some builds can get a Zealot, but no Sentry is sure); - One or two Stalkers camping in front of his natural to dispose of your scouting SCV; - No scout or 9 scout from him are also a possible sign (he doesn't scout because he doesn't care since he wants to blindly all-in, or he wants to make sure you go 1 rax FE). With my first 50 gas I make 2 Tech Labs, then I continuously make Marauders and search Concussive (first) and Stim (second). When Protoss makes his first Blink in my base (7'15 - 7'30) I have enough to fend him off without pulling any SCV, then I defend while teching to Medivacs. Be sure you never get supply blocked and pay attention to the location of your Tech Lab searching Stim, you don't want it to be cancelled. Common follow-ups when Protoss fails are: Protoss tries harder; Dark shrine; expand, so be wary about this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On March 15 2013 04:03 MockHamill wrote: Does anyone know how to play TvP in HOTS? I had lots of problem in WOL but it seems to be even worse in HOTS. Bio is still awful in TvP if you have low APM, mech sucks even more than it did in WOL. Often my economy is significantly stronger then my Protoss opponent but since I lose all the lategame battles no matter what composition I use, the matchup feels unplayable. I hate matchups where micro decides the game even on lower levels. In TvT and TvZ you can win by being strategically smarter and having better macro, in TvP you lose if you micro is not better than your opponents, no matter how much better you play. I can take down Zerg Master players but have a 30% winrate against Plat Protoss basically. you have low apm but you can take down zerg masters? Wat? If you have apm to take down zerg masters just abuse the fricken dropship before they nerf it - just kill some probes, dash away, drop somewhere else for a pylon, dash away, drop for some more probes, dash away etc etc etc. Doing 2-3 areas at once is considered blatant abuse and should be used as much as possible. Btw If you want to practice bio, play pure bio with widowmines against zerg. Its very very exciting and fun. Soon your opponent will start raging at you :/ On March 15 2013 04:03 ff7legend wrote: How do you deal with 4gate blink. I am constantly scouting their gas and even their gates, but unless i see the twilight i still have no clue what they could be doing. It could be 4 gate with alot sentries, proxy voidrays, dts, etc. And if for some reason i do scout their twilight, where do i put bunkers and such so that i can actually defend the attack. If you do scout their twilight it could still be DTs. Are you gasless expanding? My rule of thumb personally, is that if the opponent goes double gas without expand is to go 4-5 rax instead of 3, and stay on one gas, pump heavy marines only and grab fast stim and +1 to weapon. The added barracks gives you so much more marines by the time any allin hits usually the protoss just backs off and expands - in which I expand again and grab all 4 gasses for fast tech + starport. If you insist on playing pro style 3 rax, float all your shit back to your main if needed and just bunker up the area, then pray to god your addon placement isnt for easy pickings. 4gate blink stalker is strong because he can easily control your marine count if you mess up bunker placements. Having extra barracks counters that significantly so at the VERY LEAST you can delay easily until stim is up and then just go kill him :/ If you want you can also skip the plus one, grab two gas and go 3 techlab marauders (on 5-6 rax) when you can. This is ONLY if you are 100% sure the opponent is going for blink stalkers (already have high stalker count), then just go kill him:/ | ||
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Spoink
Austria150 Posts
Thanks in advance! | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On March 15 2013 04:38 tisalgado wrote: the answer is in the original OP: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251694 + Show Spoiler + Q. If I 1 rax FE into 3 rax, how to hold Blink Stalkers all-ins? - Hide Spoiler [Answer] - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TheDwf wrote: Against Blink Stalkers all-ins I never have troubles when scouting it early. Signs are: - 2 gas; - 3 Pylons in his base (and thus no proxy) with one of them being able to fuel a building in the back of his base (outside of common scan areas); - A favorable map (e. g. Daybreak and Entombed Valley are impractical due to the map layout); - No Zealot, no Sentries (some builds can get a Zealot, but no Sentry is sure); - One or two Stalkers camping in front of his natural to dispose of your scouting SCV; - No scout or 9 scout from him are also a possible sign (he doesn't scout because he doesn't care since he wants to blindly all-in, or he wants to make sure you go 1 rax FE). With my first 50 gas I make 2 Tech Labs, then I continuously make Marauders and search Concussive (first) and Stim (second). When Protoss makes his first Blink in my base (7'15 - 7'30) I have enough to fend him off without pulling any SCV, then I defend while teching to Medivacs. Be sure you never get supply blocked and pay attention to the location of your Tech Lab searching Stim, you don't want it to be cancelled. Common follow-ups when Protoss fails are: Protoss tries harder; Dark shrine; expand, so be wary about this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- note that because of the msc, the push comes even faster | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
What is your opinion the best way to open against zerg as a meching player? Should i do a reaper pressure Double expand or like in WoL Reactor Fac+Banshee or go for a relative quick 3rd like no gas/cc first with a follwed fac reactor fe into Mech? Do i need Starport or should i go for total of 3-4 facs right after my armories? | ||
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