EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 2
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T.O.P
469 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
Is there a list of common HotS openings and strategies that developed at the end of the beta somewhere that i missed or do i have to go through recent VODs one by one to figure them out myself? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On March 14 2013 06:26 Morfildur wrote: I didn't watch a lot of HotS streams and games during the beta but now that HotS is released, i have a hard time finding common openings and strategies. I checked all the recommended threads but none of them appears to be updated and Liquipedia doesn't help either. Is there a list of common HotS openings and strategies that developed at the end of the beta somewhere that i missed or do i have to go through recent VODs one by one to figure them out myself? On March 14 2013 02:52 kollin wrote: The standard opener for TvT I outlined above. For TvP, it is either 1 rax FE or once again a reaper opening, and for TvZ it can be reapers, or hellion banshee (though that is risky because your opponent might go for muta play). In terms of core units, it is mostly the same. In all matchups, it is not a bad idea to mix in widow mines for defence. Obviously you want hellbats if you are going mech and your opponent is going for a lot of direct attacks, but if you are going pure bio in TvZ and TvP they are also very good to mix in. Don't rely on them as a core unit though, they should be there to supplement the main bio force and provide a bit of additional AoE damage. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Strykerz
United States85 Posts
On March 14 2013 07:42 Maxie wrote: How do I best deal with swarm hosts when going mech? I second this question. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 14 2013 02:49 Aveng3r wrote: In tvt, is a gasless 1 rax FE safe against a 1 rax reaper opening? Not with a Marine cut, because then it's game if the first Reaper kills your first Marine. On March 14 2013 02:51 Dutra wrote: whats the core units that proplayers r using in the 3 matchups? TvT: same as WoL (except Hellbats instead of Hellions depending on the situation for mech). TvZ: same as WoL + 4M (Marines/Marauders/Medivacs/Mines), sometimes with Hellbats mixed in. TvP: same as WoL, sometimes with Hellbats mixed in. Still unclear for mech. On March 14 2013 02:58 Dutra wrote: 1 more thing: the armor of flying vehicles is the same of the ground now? Yes. On March 14 2013 03:33 Smackzilla wrote: When people say "1-rax reaper" in hots, is that: 1) rax marine, reactor, 2x reaper? 2) rax reaper, ?, ? 3) rax, reactor, 2x reaper.... Depends. It can mean Marine Reaper (gas 13 or 14) or Reaper Reaper (rax 11 gas 11 or rax 12 gas 12). The add-on on the Barracks is built after you're done producing Reapers. On March 14 2013 05:27 zhurai wrote: hi, what build do you advise doing. cause what I had planned for myself is to do um (TvZ) reaper expand into mines+starport, and then do a mine drop if able into either bio mines (double ebay, stim researching) or mech (double gas, double fact, 1-2 armories, get mines or thors vs muta...) or so? and for TvP, reactor marine expo into mines (either play defensively if they look like they are going to attack, or drop with 2 mines and 4 marines) basically the builds I saw yoda did in IEM. or are those builds already out of date == No, they're fine. On March 14 2013 06:26 Morfildur wrote: Is there a list of common HotS openings and strategies that developed at the end of the beta somewhere that i missed or do i have to go through recent VODs one by one to figure them out myself? Yes, you can/should check the VODs at the last IEM. Some of the new things: TvT: rax gas Reaper Reaper CC fact reactor gas port. TvZ: rax gas Reaper Reaper CC fact reactor with different transitions you can apply from the WoL build orders with the possibility to include Mines. TvP: 1) rax gas 14 Marine Reaper CC lab stim rax rax EB; 2) rax gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port. | ||
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GimliGloin
Canada24 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:00 GimliGloin wrote: How do you deal with Stalker/ MSC pressure? I usually get busted down really fast when trying to do a WM drop opening Just build a bunker at the ramp to your natural, and keep a single marine in it while the rest to and deal with the MSC. That's assuming you do a 1 base widow mine drop. What you could do is reactor expand, then widow mine drop like Yoda did in IEM. You stay safe against early stalker MSC shenanigans and should be able to do some damage with the mine drop, as well as have a better economy. | ||
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
Is the caduceus reactor still useless? And if you don't like to play mech at all in tvt, how are you supposed to fight a hellbat tank army? I know bio/bio-mech require's far more control but I dislike playing mech in all mu's, so yeah just try to put the pressure on the meching player with drops and widow mines? But how how do you put pressure on when he just builds turrets and widow mines and continues to build a mech army. Should I go full sky terran before he does? | ||
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ruro23
3 Posts
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
Mech in TvP is still fucking hard to pull off. It probably was viable in Wings of liberty already but it was too fragile and too hard (check lyyna's thread) that any good protos could have found slightest holes in the builds and win the game outright. In Hots the mech is not really any better, only really usable mech unit is hellbat but mostly composition will still be bio sentric. I cannot believe how blizzard failed to make mech a viable option in tvp. Instead, they promoted bio play even more since it is not very powerful in TvZ because you can switch tanks into widow mines which are cheaper and take less time to make. Goliath was absolutely needed unit but apparenly blizzard is not gonna introduce that unit. | ||
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TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On March 14 2013 15:31 PanzerElite wrote: I was diamond in wol with ok-ish macro(for diamond that is) and terrible terrible unit control. Is the caduceus reactor still useless? And if you don't like to play mech at all in tvt, how are you supposed to fight a hellbat tank army? I know bio/bio-mech require's far more control but I dislike playing mech in all mu's, so yeah just try to put the pressure on the meching player with drops and widow mines? But how how do you put pressure on when he just builds turrets and widow mines and continues to build a mech army. Should I go full sky terran before he does? Basically yeah. What you can do, assuming you are on 3 bases, is get 3 factories and around 5 barracks instead of a normal 7 barracks 2 factories. Assuming you can keep air control, this makes it very hard for a meching player to push into you, and you can easily transition into skyterran off the back of it while still having a strong army and strong economy. On March 14 2013 15:57 ruro23 wrote: I was a gold Terran player in WoL and am now going through my placement matches in HoTS and I am thinking about changing my game style from bio to mech. My only issue is that I am TOTALLY LOST on mech and even more lost with the changes to mech in HoTS. Please if someone could help me get Vod's of successful mech play in HoTS or a good beginner's build order to help me get started in meching the other races cry!:D Despite what some people are saying, mech is still extremely viable. You can use widow mines to help position your army, and hellbats make most Zergling based compositions extremely inefficient. An example of mech in TvT would be Yoda vs MVP on Daybreak, in the IEM WC. For mech in TvZ, I suggest you watch some of the TvZ's Yoda played as he showed off a very strong meching style. Sadly so far, nobody has really gone mech in TvP at the highest level. That is not to say the won't, and I suggest you keep an eye out for MLG this weekend, as we may well see new and exciting strategies there. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote: Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay. About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order. EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. I respectfully disagree as I hate the standard macro style that most pro terrans play. I believe that it's best to base your play around your style so if he feels he can play good with reapers & banshees than he can refine his build from there. Personally I almost always open up aggressive such as gas first banshee into 1/1/1 pressure vs T/Z/P followed up by an expansion as being very aggressive opens up the window for your opponent to slip up and make mistakes while you build up an army safely as you're on the offense. You can end the game right from the get go opening up aggressive and you're safe against most all ins and pressure builds as you're aiming for an army early on vs econ. Personally I can't stand playing passive as Terran it's almost as though the race was designed to be aggressive with all of the harass units available early on not to mention siege tech is gone so you can hit with a 1/1/1 pressure or all in (depending on how much harass damage you do and scouting) very, very fast now. I used to be high masters and there are some pros that play the same style as me but I can't stand the whole sit back and macro style (fast expanding first) that players like polt and MVP play with for the most part. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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SjPhotoGrapher
181 Posts
On March 14 2013 17:07 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Against protos early aggression is useless. They have so many ways to make their defences unbreakable. Drops absolutely do not work before later stages of the mid game. From what I've seen in my games so far 1/1/1 is still very viable and even more powerful than it was in WoL. You can hit with it and be at their base around the 7:30 mark with 3 tanks, handful of marines, and Raven with enough energy for PDD's/HSM or vikings. | ||
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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