EPT[L][D]HotS Terran Mech Resources/Q&A - Page 23
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AmicusVenti
United States61 Posts
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
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AmicusVenti
United States61 Posts
On November 06 2013 20:16 hfsrj wrote: As a lower league player, just make worker and army continuously. Seriously, you win. I understand that. In fact that's the entire reason I'm asking. If I didn't think this was true, I would be more worried about composition, micro, etc. However I think that in the environment of a single build, it becomes easier to make units and production consistently as you can identify things such as 'this structure is late' or 'I should have more workers at this point.' That's why I was asking for a single build. | ||
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
too much specifics play bio it will learn you to macro properly and builds/scouting is a bit easier | ||
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AmicusVenti
United States61 Posts
On November 07 2013 05:44 Val_ wrote: as mech gml terran i can say that i think mech is not for non experienced players too much specifics play bio it will learn you to macro properly and builds/scouting is a bit easier I do play bio, for now. I was just interested in getting my feet wet with a little bit of mech. To be honest I was mostly going to use the build in custom games with friends to get a sense of it. | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
Best way to learn that is to watch pro streams. My favourite one is http://www.twitch.tv/dzerzhinsky. Unlike other notable mech players there is no bm assosiated with him (eg like avilo, nothing against him, its just that its common to see the chat get toxic sometimes from my experience) and i think he has the some of the best late game play out of any meching terran which is ideal to learn from as mech only gets stronger as the game goes by. He aint the best by any means, just a very nice stream to learn from imo. Low apm and clear openings make it easy to learn and copy. Also learning how to play it one mu at a time is advised. TvT is very unforgiving but will really test your ability to deal with defending multi pronged attacks and ability to play positionally where as TvZ will test your ability toscout and read your opponent. Not seeing that tech switch can be game ending when playing mech, eg having no aa then dealing with 10-20 mutas with no warning. Also i find having a good tvz helps build confidence going into the late game. Once you are on 4base with mech you can out trade opponents with 2-3 more bases than you with constant favourable fights (exception tvp because "insert choice of toss is op reference here") | ||
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Arthorn
Netherlands2 Posts
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Taefox
1533 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:34 Arthorn wrote: Maybe a stupid question but are there also guides on TVT as mech? :p You can transit to Mech TvT with forGG build http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=412904 | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
I play defensive mech, Master league, got placed into Diamond this season, should be promoted back soon as long as I can figure out the maps. Last season I thought Yeonsu and Polar Night would be horrible mech maps but they are actually alright (maybe the best mech maps in the current map pool?). I don't like Derelict Watcher as any non TvZ matchup seems to be quite difficult on it, it's also a dumb map overall. TvP on it is a nightmare as taking a 4th seems impossible without getting some other base sniped. Frost seems to be absolutely terrible but to be fair I only played a single mech game on it (and I won), it just looks scary with all the bases and attack paths. So I veto'd it right away last season. Star Station...mehh, I don't like it, expanding on it is kind of weird BUT with the new version it's harder to sneak in ninja bases and it's also easier to deny/kill enemy bases on it. I'm still not sure if I should play it, if i figure out the key points to defend on it, it might not turn out so bad. Belshir...I never liked it, it's also old and kind of dumb as well. Alterzim....LOL, played a TvP on it and it's so fucking huge, jesus christ. It was horrible because Terran can't just spawn units anywhere on the map and the fact that mech is actually much slower than bio just makes it all worse. I guess it's not too bad in NON-TvP matchups, where you can actually defend bases without comitting your whole army to that. So basically I'm kind lost here guys, I must summon the help of Dzerzhinsky, Lyyna, Avilo and other high level defensive mech players, which ones would you veto? So far mine are: Belshir Derelict Alterzim I really wanna veto Frost but I'm not sure about Derelict and Belshir though. My problem with these maps overall is playing TvP on them (but I guess that's a problem with mech in general >.<), I don't mind the other two matchups so much. So far my only "sure" veto is Alterzim, I can change the other two if you guys can convince me of it :D | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
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Duckvillelol
Australia1257 Posts
Just in case anyone wanted some VoD content, I've done a couple of Dzerz' games, here they are: TvZ: and TvP: | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
On a sidenote: The casting style is very nice, explaining very well what's going on! | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On November 12 2013 20:50 BurningRanger wrote: Thx! I just watched Dzerz' TvZ and really like it a lot. Doesn't even look too difficult to pull off (even with my slow hands). Also the Roach drop defense was very nice. Can't wait to watch the TvP as well. On a sidenote: The casting style is very nice, explaining very well what's going on! Yeah, I've had opponents and clan-mates say that this style is "easy to pull off", what they don't realize is there is an infinite ammount of random things you can die to at any point in the game, and players like DZ already have a really deep understanding of the workings of mech AND the other races in general (check AlaxWayLaxed's post above, he nailed it), you don't need stellar mechanics to pull it off but you need a lot of experience, planning ahead and fine tuning of each of your builds to make this work at higher levels. If this was easy a lot of people would be sucessfully doing it on the ladder, what happens in reality is that bored Terran players will "try out some mech" and get absolutely raped on the ladder (despite having 200apm) and give it up after a few games. Check out Bunny's statement about mech on the last episode of Meta. | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
You're right that you still need a deep understanding. That's actually the point why I like it so much. I don't have the time to practice mechanics, but I have time to think about strategic decisions, about what should work where and when or not. Mech is not something that you can "try out some". I've even seen pros try it and do major mistakes resulting in a loss (and then people who don't understand it take that game as a prime example for how Mech can't work). Mech isn't called the 4th race for nothing. You have to learn it from scratch like you'd have to do when switching to Zerg or Protoss. | ||
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1257 Posts
On November 12 2013 21:47 BurningRanger wrote: Ok, I have to admit my statement was a bit oversimplified. What I meant is that it's mechanically less demanding, so even I could pull it off with my ridiculous low APM. You're right that you still need a deep understanding. That's actually the point why I like it so much. I don't have the time to practice mechanics, but I have time to think about strategic decisions, about what should work where and when or not. Mech is not something that you can "try out some". I've even seen pros try it and do major mistakes resulting in a loss (and then people who don't understand it take that game as a prime example for how Mech can't work). Mech isn't called the 4th race for nothing. You have to learn it from scratch like you'd have to do when switching to Zerg or Protoss. Dzerz has a low APM too; around 60 iirc (I'm sure he'll post to clarify!) so yeah it's quite possible even for folks with lower APM. But that's not to take anything away from the style though, because people often think that mech can be a simple "make tank, make thor, make hellbat, 1a" kinda thing - when it really isn't. You have to be perfect with your scouting, reactions, tactical positioning, composition choices, and many other facets that make it a really difficult task to undertake. It's partly why I've never really considered TvP mech "impossible" - it just takes those things I mentioned above to a ridiculous level because you have to deal with some of the "hard counter" stuff that Protoss can bring into the fold. It's not impossible, you just have to play at an immaculate level, one small slip up and you're dead. Also thank you for the compliment about the cast  | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Just someone who opens oracle into nexus into 3-4 oracles for general harass, I'm having a really hard time with just reactor marines and wouldn't want to spam missile turrets everywhere so early on. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On November 13 2013 22:24 Bagi wrote: How do you guys figure one should open against a protoss player now? Just someone who opens oracle into nexus into 3-4 oracles for general harass, I'm having a really hard time with just reactor marines and wouldn't want to spam missile turrets everywhere so early on. If you don't do all-in, then any mech matchups need to have a lot of turrents. | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
On November 13 2013 00:10 Lyyna wrote: By the way, since i see i'm not in the stream list in the op , and i started to stream again few weeks ago. . :p http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna u're welcome here :D | ||
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BurningRanger
Germany303 Posts
TvZ on Yeonsu: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4360822 He tried to bust me and I didn't react quick enough. Maybe I could have saved some more units. After checking the replay, I probably should have moved out immediately to pressure him. Then later I should have placed some turrets at edges. The Nydus worms were too effective. Anyways, I think my biggest problem on this map was that I didn't know how to take a 4th, so eventually I lost a war of attrition. Up to the 3rd it's quite easy to take and hold them, but how do I take a 4th (I guess it should be the one next to the natural?) without opening up the 3rd (and main behind it) too much? Also the 4th here is quite open so the opponent can come from all sides at once. On a sidenote, the opponent was a bit bm (premature gg into losing all his stuff :D ). He even wasted some time telling me how bad I am after the game (as if I didn't know that myself  ).TvP on Derelict Watcher: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4360823 Here I can actually get up to 4 bases and be quite fine. I think I have quite nice positioning, throw PDDs against Tempest shots, and hunt those down with Vikings. 1 mistake I see is getting BCs. They don't do much else than getting feedbacked. More Vikings would have been better I guess. Quite a difference to Dzerz' game above, the Protoss did go very Air heavy. I didn't know exactly how to react. Throw away all the Tanks and replace them with more Thors and Vikings? I was a bit too afraid of his HTs for that I guess. Also the Voidrays bugged me a bit, because PDDs don't catch their shots. All that made me too afraid to move out, which I would have needed to keep him from taking the whole map. Any tips would be very much appreciated. Just a warning, the games are very long. Oh, and it's just Silver level (dropped down from Gold now  ) so the macro is rather crappy. | ||
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