Do you have any replays where you start the fight with strike cannons or you use them in the first BIG engagement? In the last replay #2 you only used in the end where it kind of didn't do anything since the game was over already.

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 27 2013 23:57 GMT

#43

This isn't really a build, more of a 2 base all in. Not even a mech one at that.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:06 GMT

#44

kollin your dumb. Its not a build? Imo? and its kinda of a 2base all in but you double expand behind it so if you dont kill his 3rd(you almost always kill 3rd) you can take a pf and a macro cc. And not mech? lol? its 6 thors 20 helions and 6 banshees and some marines. Why is that not mech? the marines?? xD dude its mech the marines are just there for anti air in case of carriers so really not sure what you were thinking when you made your comment.

User was warned for this post

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:10 GMT

#45

Ok, I phrased myself incorrectly. Not a viable build. This is a 2 base all in, as you are completely and utterly fucked tech wise if you do not win the game because you have no upgrades at all. Why you'd build marines for carriers, which could not possibly be out at that time anyway, makes no sense at all. And don't even think about calling thors mech units. What thors are is bigger, more expensive tankier marines. Most definitely not mech units.

llIH

Norway2142 Posts

January 28 2013 00:15 GMT

#46

On January 28 2013 09:10 kollin wrote:
Ok, I phrased myself incorrectly. Not a viable build. This is a 2 base all in, as you are completely and utterly fucked tech wise if you do not win the game because you have no upgrades at all. Why you'd build marines for carriers, which could not possibly be out at that time anyway, makes no sense at all. And don't even think about calling thors mech units. What thors are is bigger, more expensive tankier marines. Most definitely not mech units.

I don't understand. The build has upgrades for mech units from armory. I believe his tech is good considering he has starport and armory. Agree on marines vs carriers. But how can you say that Thors arent mech units?

I would argue that he is fucked if he doesn't end. But not because of upgrades. But because that he has not enough factories to reproduce - and it is an expensive army. (on 2 base that is)

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:19 GMT

#47

I don't think you really understand what the meaning of a mech unit entails. I suggest you search for Falling's excellent post titled 'In Defence of Mech'. That should clear up some things. You also made a valid point with how you cannot reproduce quickly enough.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure that opener just dies to any 6 gates or immortal busts as well.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:24 GMT

#48

Thors not mech units......??????? um ok sure why not, and by 14 mins you can have 2 carriers out or some air, the point about the marines is actully kinda wrong i kind of just make them for the extra dps and cuase i have some extra mins for my build XD. sry if i came across as a dick I just misundertood you.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:26 GMT

#49

But this build is meant to kill his 3rd and cripple his army to allow give you the TIME (very important) to build up you gost mech. With seige tanks upgrades hellion and gosts. And the push its self usually kill the protoss anyway

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:29 GMT

#50

6 gates are actully damn easy to,hold the hellions wipe the zealots and when thors pop out mass repair just kills everything else. Immortal busts can be harder to stop but the genral idea is just to focus immortals and then mass repair on thors wipes out the rest of the stuff.

User was warned for this post

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:31 GMT

#51

If your opponent has 2 carriers out by the 14 minute mark you're probably playing BW. If you come to your senses and realise you are playing SC2 then you should also realise he has literally no ground army and win. I can tell you didn't read the article I pointed you to, because you completely ignored what I said. Then you proceeded to ignore what I said again, saying you can transition to ghost mech from your non existent economy, non existent production and non existent upgrades. I don't care if the push kills the Protoss, because my initial point was that this build is an all in that cannot hold any early game all ins itself.

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:33 GMT

#52

On January 28 2013 09:29 EliteLegend wrote:
6 gates are actully damn easy to,hold the hellions wipe the zealots and when thors pop out mass repair just kills everything else. Immortal busts can be harder to stop but the genral idea is just to focus immortals and then mass repair on thors wipes out the rest of the stuff.

Hellions don't wipe out zealots when they cannot kite them, which they shouldn't be able to do if your opponent has some degree of skill. And trust me, even mass repairing if your opponent focuses down the SCV's with the zealots and the thors with everything else, they will break through. I have tried mech in tvp countless, countless times and while it is possible, this is not the way.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:45 GMT

#53

kollin il send you a game were i hold a 7 gate with ease its actually easier than you think

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:46 GMT

#54

I said 6 gate and, far more importantly, immortal bust.

llIH

Norway2142 Posts

January 28 2013 00:50 GMT

#55

But if I would play mech to make good economy. I would play defensively rather than attacking. And just dropping hellions to buy time. Tanks too for that matter. Scouting to see if he has many colossi or not - to make vikings or not. Turret up the map for air defense and against drops. And slowly macro up. Ghosts are extremely expensive. And you need at least 3 base to be able to mass produse tanks, thors, hellions + ghosts.

I think if you lose your army that early with mech. You are dead anyways.
But I like the aggressive approach of the strategy. It is strong no doubt about that.
The only thing that could be changed would be more vikings for the potential and most probably colossi that are coming.
--- It is little probability that the thors will be able to get in range to use strike cannons on the colossi.

I read the whole thread. "In defense of Mech" by Falling. But I can not agree that a thor is similar to a marine. And I still believe that a thor is a mech unit. But it is not the same kind as in the siege tank's function. It is kind of like SC2's version of "new" mech. Don't know how to describe it correctly but I think you understand what I mean, but not necessarily agree of course.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 28 2013 00:53 GMT

#56

K il try to find some games when i defend that.

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 00:54 GMT

#57

I agree with your first paragraph completely, as you are correct. The second paragraph as well, though banshees are generally better than vikings. The last paragraph, I disagree with. In the other two matchups, mech has the exact same definition as in BW. Yet for some reason in TvP, people want this 'new-age mech' that doesn't comply with what mech is in other matchups and has ever been in other games.

llIH

Norway2142 Posts

January 28 2013 01:03 GMT

#58

On January 28 2013 09:54 kollin wrote:
I agree with your first paragraph completely, as you are correct. The second paragraph as well, though banshees are generally better than vikings. The last paragraph, I disagree with. In the other two matchups, mech has the exact same definition as in BW. Yet for some reason in TvP, people want this 'new-age mech' that doesn't comply with what mech is in other matchups and has ever been in other games.

Oh god sorry. I'm getting tired. Forgot about the banshees. Never mind the vikings.
But it sounds like we are agreeing on the thor. (not saying you said thor is mech unit)
It is SC2's new version of mech unit. But I agree that thors might not be the best against toss. I would still like more tanks instead. More hellions, or less. More banshees. More turrets. More BC?

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 28 2013 01:10 GMT

#59

No I think we disagree. I'm saying in every other matchup, mech is essentially the same as it was in BW, but not TvP because people build thors which despite being mechanical units do not fit in with the underlying concept of the mech army.

llIH

Norway2142 Posts

January 28 2013 01:19 GMT

#60

I don't know if it is me or that I am just tired. But I agree with you. But your saying we disagree. Honestly I don't care what we call it a disagreement or an agreement. I think the thors mess up the mech play. And they are extremely expensive - which is one of my reasons I do not like them in general. edit: obviously the slow production time!
But you can play mech the same way vs protoss. The thor part I have neither any clue why specifically they are popular vs P. I especially love Flash's tank builds vs toss. Not that he does it a lot.