Hi !
I tried your build and there are many things that can be improved imo.
First I would try to finish the wall before the probe comes, so that the P player can't see your going gasless fast expand. It avoids a lot of all-inish strategies by the P player.
In your games, your harass is quiete limited imo, you're a little too passive and doing only macro. I think it's possible to harass more with hellion's mobility / banshee without committing too much. I feel constant harassing / scouting with helion gives precious information about what the protoss is doing and makes him uncomfortable to leave his base.
Thanks to you I rediscovered how 250mm cannons were insane vs immortal. I also feel that upgrading armor is better than upgrading weapons.
I'm not sure how non upgraded marines help after 13 min game... Maybe tech-labbed rax with 2 3 ghost is better in case of storm / archon. This delays your push for sure... Not sure what is the most efficient...

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 18:08 GMT

#103

Hi Lloyd :D. I agree with your comment, i simmply dont do because im lazy xD. Well not exactly but the reason i don't do it is when i do he ffs my helions out and i lose em. and with the banshees in most of my games i do some pokes but i agree that i should harass more with them. I simmply dont have the apm to double banshee harass keeping both alive keep making units and suplly depots on time. Im lazy so i just chose the easiest path the macro. XD But by no means i think its wrong to harass alot with helion banshee im simmply not fast im sure some more apm heavy players could pull this off. And for the gosts its a cool idea, but it just costs to much gas. You are already gas deprived for this build trying to sqeeze 3 gosts in and delay the push by 2 min is just not worth it. The extra marine are there becuse you have a little to much minrals for this build. You can cut out the marines and get a fast 3rd if you wanted to. I like to get the marines JUST in case of some weird air build and to just add a little extra dps to my army. And Lastly the 1 rax expo thing, i find it quite easy to hold 1 base all ins since ive had so much practice vs them ( just uploading a game of me holding blink all in. My anti 1 base builds hold ofs bascily erveything so not to worried about 1 base all ins. But theres nothing wrong with going supply depot before cc for me its just a personal prefrence

Mr. Black

United States470 Posts

January 31 2013 19:27 GMT

#104

I'm not high level enough to criticize the play, but please put some effort into cleaning up the OP. It needs some work on formatting, grammar and punctuation.

Also, your replays use a lot of different compositions and different attack timings with little explanation of your reasoning for making these changes (except for the main 2 base timing you focus on in the OP).

Right now, you have proven that you can beat master level protoss, and if the point of the thread is for you to convince people that you can do that, well done. But if you actually want people to be able to learn and give constructive criticism (hell, maybe even figure out ways to make your build better) you need to put in some work.

Here are a couple of examples of guides that are better formatted. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241247

I like the idea and I would like to see it tested, but right now I think a lot of the people that would have good input won't read it, because the OP is so gross to read.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 20:08 GMT

#105

Ya I agree XD. Like I said I have never made a thread before and i have not really seen many either so thank you for input il try to change op. And for the grammer, I can try to fix but Im not great at english so you will have to endure that xD.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 20:10 GMT

#106

Also the ammount of work that LemonyTang put in is riduclous (probs to him tho) I simmply dont have the time to make it that orginized

llIH

Norway2143 Posts

January 31 2013 20:45 GMT

#107

I liked the OP. I honestly think a person is lazy if he can't read it. (Not saying it is the most organized either)
I think most of guides are made too simple or too title-ish. Sort of like an easy look-in guide to use when in game. If you are used to reading books it takes a quick blink of an eye to read it. But if you would want the guide to be top notch, as Mr. Black said. You should work on it, just a little.

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 31 2013 20:47 GMT

#108

But the grammar and punctuation REALLY need improving. Still not convinced of this build, seems like most competent Protoss' would just build cannons and high templar then win.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 20:48 GMT

#109

Ya changed the OP and i might fix a couple of other things but don't expect anthing amazing. But Thankyou for feedback.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 20:55 GMT

#110

Fixed some of the grammer, Kollin out of curiosity what league are you in?, Also what race?

llIH

Norway2143 Posts

January 31 2013 21:04 GMT

#111

On February 01 2013 05:47 kollin wrote:
But the grammar and punctuation REALLY need improving. Still not convinced of this build, seems like most competent Protoss' would just build cannons and high templar then win.

The way you come out seems like it is a personal thing. And especially the caps on "really". It makes it harder to take you seriously. Although I took you seriously the whole way through this thread. If you play Toss can you show some replays when you beat this build? I play random. And I want to see some good strategies to beat this build because ironically I am actually losing a lot of toss games vs this strat lately.

(I am master league Europe. If my knowledge sounds limited. I can tell you that my macro/mechanics is by far my strength. And my strategy/decision are my worst by far)

kollin

United Kingdom8380 Posts

January 31 2013 21:37 GMT

#112

EliteLegend diamond terran, but I don't play anymore. I just watch SC2 so I can be up to date knowledge rise for when I write for TL. And I capitalised the really for emphasis, I probably could have just used italics ^^

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

January 31 2013 22:09 GMT

#113

Ya kollin like i said it might sound bad on paper, but untill you try it or play aginst you don't realise how fast it hits. But there is flaws with my build, just like any build and i thankyou for all the feedback. A first i though you were some 12 year troll but now i understand you are quite educated after that argument with yoshi ( that was fun to read

) But again thankyou for feedback and keep it coming :D

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

February 01 2013 00:54 GMT

#114

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/EliteLegend come join me need more viewers ;P

Sapphire.lux

Romania2620 Posts

February 01 2013 06:42 GMT

#115

Well, it's another mass Thor timing attack, we kind of knew about these for some time no?

The only mech builds i know of are sea and gorapadong (beautiful timing attack). Sorry for being slightly off topic, but it would be nice if people would experiment more with actual "mech" instead of just massing thors.

llIH

Norway2143 Posts

February 01 2013 10:03 GMT

#116

Perhaps the NTT air terran banshee strat could be tried again. It used to work for me back 1 year ago especially vs zerg master players on EU.

EliteLegend

Canada57 Posts

February 16 2013 01:32 GMT

#117

Hey added another game of me just CRUSHING the so called "counter to my build" the 6 gate

Garmer

1286 Posts

March 26 2013 18:35 GMT

#118

i'm only diamond, but i have made a solid build against any kinda of rush, that allow you to expand safely

10 supply
12 rax (produce 2 rine)
13 gas
15 oc
17 supply
18 factory
19 reactor(swap rax with factory at end)

make two widow mine
make supply and second gas
make second cc
make other two mine plus one marine, then build tech lab from rax(swap again factory and rax at end)
make two tank and build a second factory when u have money

it's all for now, you have 4 mine and 2 tank at about 7:00-7:15 plus 3 rines

i'm still working on late game, which is the hardest part

anyway my ideal composition it's mine, tank and ghost, if he made air add viking, that's it

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