I'm not agree with this guide...

Also, Stephano, take double gaz when he have 42/44 drones in generaly...

And, normaly, at 7min10, you can have 70drones with double gaz , roach warren and evo chamber put and, in your video, you just have 60drones...Pretty behind i think.

To many guide on this build, and, all have the same error...You didn't explain how to defend vs all of all in...

For my view, it's a bad copy of Liquipedia...

Legat0

United States318 Posts

January 15 2013 02:41 GMT

#42

On January 15 2013 09:52 Clink wrote:
Also, Stephano, take double gaz when he have 42/44 drones in generaly...

42/44 Drones is still roughly right around the 6:00 mark

On January 15 2013 09:52 Clink wrote:
And, normaly, at 7min10, you can have 70drones with double gaz , roach warren and evo chamber put and, in your video, you just have 60drones...Pretty behind i think.

Stephano Style Macro Benchmarks: By TangSC
Relevant Thread

+ Show Spoiler +

Note taking is absolutely essential to SC2 improvement. On the topic of taking detailed SC2 notes, QxC stated in an MLG interview that “it's the people who are the best that are winning today, but it's the people who improve the fastest that win tomorrow.” It is my firm belief that any player who does not keep a StarCraft II notebook is at a severe disadvantage compared to those who do.

So often people assume that queuing up more ladder games leads to faster improvement, or as WhiteRa puts it: “More gg, more skill!” While it is true that practicing more will help you get better, it is perhaps more important to ensure that your practice time is as effective as possible. This is why the first thing I do when coaching a new student is advise them to “Open a word file or get a pen and paper...you're going to need it!”

Remember: you MUST mark your progress if you want to improve the efficiency of your practice! Therefore to learn and perfect Stephano's ZvP style, I encourage you to make a total of eight detailed benchmarks, analyzing every minute between 5:00 and 12:00. This will help you assess your current strengths and pinpoint exactly when and where you're deviating from the build. To analyze your games so close might seem a little excessive at first, however it is the most effective way to pinpoint your mistakes and improve your note taking skills.

For the Stephano-Style, here are benchmarks you can aim for:

Note: These benchmarks are estimations that you can compare to your own timings. The most important benchmark is the 8:00 Mark, where you've reached peak 3 base saturation and can begin producing Roaches and Zerglings.

5 Minutes – 28+ Supply, 18+ Drones, 3 Hatcheries, 2 Queens, 0 Gas Geysers. 0 Tumors Spread

6 Minutes – 40+ Supply, 30+ Drones, 3 Hatcheries, 2 Queens (3rd Building), 2 Gas Geysers, 2 Tumors Spread (Total)

7 Minutes – 60+ Supply, 40+ Drones, 3 Hatcheries, 3 Queens, 2 Gas Geysers, 5 Tumors Spread, Roach/Evo Building

8 Minutes – 72 Supply, 60+ Drones, 3 Hatcheries, 4 Queens, 3 or 4 Gas Geysers, 8+ Tumors Spread, Lair Building

9 Minutes – 94 Supply, 60+ Drones, 3 Hatcheries, 4 Queens, 4 Gas Geysers, 15+ Tumors Spread, +1/Ling Speed Building

10 Minutes – 126 Supply, 60+ Drones, 4 Hatcheries, 4 Queens, 20+ Tumors Spread, Roach Speed Building

11 Minutes – 160 Supply, 60+ Drones, 4 Hatcheries, 4 Queens, 25+ Tumors Spread, +2 Building

12 Minutes – 200/200 Supply, 60+ Drones, 4-5 Hatcheries, 4-5 Queens, 30+ Creep Tumors, +2 Building

On January 15 2013 09:52 Clink wrote:
To many guide on this build, and, all have the same error...You didn't explain how to defend vs all of all in...

For my view, it's a bad copy of Liquipedia...

This is just a guide showing a standard ZvP opening. After the opening, everything becomes game specific. It's aim is not to teach you "if opponent does this, then this is how you defend it". If you think you can do a better job, take the time to make your own video...

Clink

10 Posts

January 15 2013 03:51 GMT

#43

I can't make video, i haven't enough good english atm.

And, you're wrong. At 6:00 mark, you have 46-52 drones if you have a good macro.

Ok, so, why make an another guide didn't say thing in more when a complet guide exist ?

Maybe i'm explain myself wrong, i just want to say : Why make an another guide with same ,less or outdated information ? Because your link is outdated when you can see player make 200pop pure roach at 10:40 mark.

20sec is huge, if you can product army 20sec in avance than a all in like 7go robot centry, you can defend more easier or make more easier.

Joedaddy

United States1948 Posts

January 15 2013 04:54 GMT

#44

Lowko, you really have a great voice for this stuff. Your enthusiasm and way of talking are just great. Have you considered doing casting at all?

Legat0

United States318 Posts

January 15 2013 05:25 GMT

#45

On January 15 2013 12:51 Clink wrote:
And, you're wrong. At 6:00 mark, you have 46-52 drones if you have a good macro.

> You said, Stephano takes his gas at 42/44 supply
> What I meant was, at 42/44 supply, that's still around the 6:00 mark (when you take double gas). I mistyped and said drone. My Mistake.

On January 15 2013 12:51 Clink wrote:
Maybe i'm explain myself wrong, i just want to say : Why make an another guide with same ,less or outdated information ? Because your link is outdated when you can see player make 200pop pure roach at 10:40 mark.

The build I linked might be outdated, but for Stephano style ZvP, the macro benchmarks I listed in my previous post are roughly the same. 8 minutes into the game he has 3 saturated bases which should be about 66 drones (16 drones mining per base and 3 on each gas). At that point in the video he starts roach production. This is just a minimum benchmark as far as how many drones you should have at that point in the game. Of course you can have more...

Lowko

Netherlands286 Posts

January 16 2013 10:52 GMT

#46

On January 15 2013 13:54 Joedaddy wrote:
Lowko, you really have a great voice for this stuff. Your enthusiasm and way of talking are just great. Have you considered doing casting at all?

Thanks, yep I'm working on it, but it's hard to get a decent viewerbase on YouTube because other bigger casters basicly dominate all the search results.

Guys, to be clear. Stephano takes double gas once he hits 42-44 supply. Which is in every single game between the 5:50 and 6:00 mark. If you don't hit that amount of supply between 5:50 and 6:00 you know what you should be working on to get better in ZvP.

I'm working on more guides on how to defend specific all ins, this video was just a starting point. I will make videos about the different all ins and how to scout them. This is just a lot more in depth and not something I wanted in this video.

RaiZ

2813 Posts

January 18 2013 13:54 GMT

#47

Can someone tell me how I could have put the 4th hatch ? This game I won but I'd really know how you can afford that 4th hatch while macroing all of this. I simply couldn't. Just don't watch the game until the end, just watch the beginning and tell me where I could've done better, cauz I know that if I can't put that 4th hatch, I'd simply lose to every kind of allins the toss can throw at me.

http://drop.sc/296224

Thanks for your help cauz i'm really desperate... Been master since beta and can't break this fucking GM level.

Edit : Here's another replay, where i did a slight variation (3rd hatch before 2nd queen, feels more natural to me), and losing exactly to this allin i'm talking about...

http://drop.sc/296256

Lowko

Netherlands286 Posts

January 20 2013 10:11 GMT

#48

On January 18 2013 22:54 RaiZ wrote:
Can someone tell me how I could have put the 4th hatch ? This game I won but I'd really know how you can afford that 4th hatch while macroing all of this. I simply couldn't. Just don't watch the game until the end, just watch the beginning and tell me where I could've done better, cauz I know that if I can't put that 4th hatch, I'd simply lose to every kind of allins the toss can throw at me.

http://drop.sc/296224

Thanks for your help cauz i'm really desperate... Been master since beta and can't break this fucking GM level.

Edit : Here's another replay, where i did a slight variation (3rd hatch before 2nd queen, feels more natural to me), and losing exactly to this allin i'm talking about...

http://drop.sc/296256

I'm currently not on a machine that has StarCraft on it, but compare your game to Stephano. How many drones does he have when he threw down his macro hatchery? How many did you have?

If you can't afford the macro hatchery you either didn't drone hard enough, or made too many units early on.