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On January 08 2013 20:35 Lowko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 20:31 ArhK wrote:
Thanks for putting down in a clear manner this awesome BO. Could you detail the 6:30 Overlord scouting ? What are the possibilities, and incase you scout only 2 or 3 gaz and no tech building, what is to be expected ?
Thanks by advance :-). You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base. If you see no gas at the natural: Go for speed first, then lair, then upgrade. This is usually big big gateway agression or something like blink stalker agression. Go for speed and start making units, potentially even delay your lair till you hold the push. If he doesn't push, he took an incredibly greedy 3rd base: Attack him instead and go for a lair behind it if you didn't already. ~Lowko
hmm, if you see no gas at the natural, you shouldn't get lair + upgrade. you will die to hardcore gateway aggression since your zerglings will be eaten by +1 zealots and the game will end before you can take advantage of lair tech and +1 attack. you need roach warren and need to spend the gas on the roaches.
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Awesome guide! Thanks!
On January 10 2013 08:51 aka_star wrote:
hmm Old standard stuff, I don't see anything new that hasn't been known for over 6 months in regard to the zvp opening
This is true, but its nice for new players like me. 
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the intro music was surprisingly fitting + interesting... has a serious atmosphere, nice pick
haven't seen it all since i don't play neither race, but this seems like a great guide, very clear and goes through all adaptations + scouting! :D
The camera work + build order shown + production tab and all that makes this a really well done guide
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On January 10 2013 08:51 aka_star wrote:
hmm Old standard stuff, I don't see anything new that hasn't been known for over 6 months in regard to the zvp opening
except that this guy put it all in a 5 minute video that's easy and enjoyable to watch
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On January 12 2013 04:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:the intro music was surprisingly fitting + interesting... has a serious atmosphere, nice pick haven't seen it all since i don't play neither race, but this seems like a great guide, very clear and goes through all adaptations + scouting! :D The camera work + build order shown + production tab and all that makes this a really well done guide
Thank you very much. I hope the zooming and camera turning wasn´t too much!
Awesome to read so many positive comments.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
hmm, if you see no gas at the natural, you shouldn't get lair + upgrade. you will die to hardcore gateway aggression since your zerglings will be eaten by +1 zealots and the game will end before you can take advantage of lair tech and +1 attack. you need roach warren and need to spend the gas on the roaches.
No, you need to get lair up ASAP to get roach speed started.
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On January 12 2013 22:15 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + hmm, if you see no gas at the natural, you shouldn't get lair + upgrade. you will die to hardcore gateway aggression since your zerglings will be eaten by +1 zealots and the game will end before you can take advantage of lair tech and +1 attack. you need roach warren and need to spend the gas on the roaches. No, you need to get lair up ASAP to get roach speed started.
This is not true. You need that roach warren down asap, and you need that 200 gas (lair and speed) for roaches. Or you will die to a pre 8 min, mass zealot timing attack off one or two gas
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I like this guide, However, I think you should add more to the Build order: such as more ovie timings.
Stephano will typically ge two ovies at 52. and tw more in the mid 60's. This allows him to get to 78 or higher supply by 8 min. which is totally baller, and needed to stop any well executed immortal all in.
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Would you suggest that ranged upgrades are better than melee with this? I always seem to see pros going for +1 melee rather than attack, but I could be wrong.
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On January 13 2013 01:14 Puzo wrote:
Would you suggest that ranged upgrades are better than melee with this? I always seem to see pros going for +1 melee rather than attack, but I could be wrong.
Ranged upgrades are better for stephano's kind of play because he goes heavy on roaches. Other pros tend to favor ling based armies and more infestors. Roaches also get 2 extra damage from an upgrade giving you a more powerful burst damage. Another reason would be that ranged upgrades are just more powerful against toss pushes because he will always ff lings out or have colossus to deal with lings.
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On January 13 2013 01:14 Puzo wrote:
Would you suggest that ranged upgrades are better than melee with this? I always seem to see pros going for +1 melee rather than attack, but I could be wrong.
He will usually go for +1 range, if the toss is still on two base. and will continue with +2 range if he is going for roach max, or defending an all in off two base.
Pro's will go to plus 1/1 melee and cara, if the protoss goes for a fast third, AND/OR will go for 1/1 after +1 range attack, if its a two base tech expand.
Some pros, like Slush, will go for +1/1 Melee, and Range, all the way till 3/3 for max DPS.
The upgrade order depend on your style of play in zvp.
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Ok, thanks. I guess basically get +1 attack unless they do an early expand, then go from there then!
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Love the way you displayed the build on the left hand side of the screen.
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Is this essentially the most standard ZvP at the moment? Just wondering about the specific gas timings as a toss player.... which this has certainly been helpful for. Good work man.
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Thank you for this! I'm switching to Zerg from Protoss, and this will help me smooth the transition with at least one match up.
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On January 13 2013 14:23 Brindled wrote:
Thank you for this! I'm switching to Zerg from Protoss, and this will help me smooth the transition with at least one match up.
No problem! Really happy to help out. If you have any problems with the build order: Feel free to either post it here or sent me a message.
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On January 13 2013 02:56 Puzo wrote:
Ok, thanks. I guess basically get +1 attack unless they do an early expand, then go from there then!
well, you should be getting +1 attack no matter what. whether it's ranged or melee is up to you but you shouldn't delay upgrading just because you don't know what your opponent is going for. +1 ranged is safer.
it's a bit of metagame. if you think your opponent is going for fast third, then people wgo for +1 melee/carapace and opt for the late game with better upgrades. if you go for +1 melee and your opponent actually does some all-in, your upgraded lings will be invalidated by sentries, blink stalkers, etc.
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On January 08 2013 21:41 RaiZ wrote:
I'm always wondering why most zerg build only 2 lings since they don't dps enough to kill a pylon and later on a gate/forge in order to block the expand... Sure it costs a lost, but the hatch's delay is huge aswell... Isn't that worth it ?
The 2 lings are not to kill anything, but to scout. it is always possible the Toss went for Gateway harass or wants to put out a pylon in anticipation of a later push or simply is trying to hide a probe. By making 2 lings you can define the opening from the Protoss a lot more, which is extremely important.
@Lowko
Great work! Seeying a BO from Stephano always gives an opportunity to learn. Anyone who is sooo good that doesn't has no use reading these forums anyway :p
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Thanks for the video! It's nice that you took time to make a video with a replay instead of just writing down the build order, since I am more of a visual learner^^
Hope to see more in the future~
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EPT
