After a lot of requests and a bunch of time: Here we go, the video version of Stephano ZvP Build Order.
I've been working really hard to create this guide about an easy to execute build order in Zerg versus Protoss. It is a very well rounded build order that works incredibly good in the current metagame and is the build order that most professionals use.
The written build order:
Stephanos Standard Zerg versus Protoss Build Order (vs MaNa) 15 Pool 16 Hatchery 15 Overlord
@Spawning Pool Queen + 2 Lings + 2 Drones + 1 Drone (rally Cocoon to 3rd base)
- Cancel drone production until 3rd base
Chase/search for the Probe with Lings Queue up second queen
Make sure it’s early 2nd Nexus by Protoss Inject with the Queen, walk to natural
Start 3rd base
Mass droning
22 Overlord 31 Overlord
Queen @ natural + creep tumor to the 3rd Base Mass droning
41 Overlord
5:50-6:00 Double Gas Geyser
43 Overlord
6:30 3rd Gas 6:30 Overlord scouting, find gas + tech 7:00 Roach warren
vs 4 Gas
@100 Gas: Lair @100 Gas: Speed + Evo @Roach warren: Macro hatch + 4th Gas
Thanks for putting down in a clear manner this awesome BO. Could you detail the 6:30 Overlord scouting ? What are the possibilities, and incase you scout only 2 or 3 gaz and no tech building, what is to be expected ?
On January 08 2013 20:31 ArhK wrote: Thanks for putting down in a clear manner this awesome BO. Could you detail the 6:30 Overlord scouting ? What are the possibilities, and incase you scout only 2 or 3 gaz and no tech building, what is to be expected ?
Thanks by advance :-).
You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base.
If you see no gas at the natural: Go for speed first, then lair, then upgrade. This is usually big big gateway agression or something like blink stalker agression. Go for speed and start making units, potentially even delay your lair till you hold the push. If he doesn't push, he took an incredibly greedy 3rd base: Attack him instead and go for a lair behind it if you didn't already.
If you see 1 gas at the natural: Go for either lair or speed, depending on how the game went and how you saw his chronoboost being spent (and overlord scout). You can expect a timing push at this point. It's going to be something like blink stalker, big gateway agression with a bit more sentries, potentially something weird with voidrays or something like that.
If you see 2 gas at the natural: Go for instant lair and then speed (he either expands or goes for a high tech push as in air, immortals, colossus, dt etc.)
He perfected his ZvP since then. Things such as his gas timings are changed a little tiny bit as well as the macro hatch timing. I also try to focus more on the build order then the strategy. Day9 is much better at explaining stuff than me tho, so you should definitely watch that as well, just keep in mind that Stephano made a few minor changes since then.
I'm always wondering why most zerg build only 2 lings since they don't dps enough to kill a pylon and later on a gate/forge in order to block the expand... Sure it costs a lost, but the hatch's delay is huge aswell... Isn't that worth it ?
You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base.
Until you get roflstomped by 7gates from two gas at the nat.
7 gates without warptech isn't that dangerous. He needs gas for warptech.
Once you execute the build order a lot of times you will start to realise what times are normal and what times aren't. Once you see a gas going down around or before 6:00 for the Protoss you know something is up and you need to check the main instantly. 7-8 gate all ins are happening sometimes but still scoutable with lings at the front by counting the amount of chrono boost is spent on the CC.
I didn't cover this in the video because it just goes too in depth and that wasn't what the video was meant for. I can surely make another video about this. Thanks for your comment!
Anyway, if he decides to pump out roach-ling (in case of a sentry immortal all in for example) wouldn't 4 geysers be too many? Ideally you want 57 workers, 9 on gas and 48 on minerals. Wouldn't he be floating gas?
On January 08 2013 23:11 Henk wrote: Anyway, if he decides to pump out roach-ling (in case of a sentry immortal all in for example) wouldn't 4 geysers be too many? Ideally you want 57 workers, 9 on gas and 48 on minerals. Wouldn't he be floating gas?
Stephano currently plays a style with either mass roach and a bunch of lings if necissary, or he transitions straight into double upgrades with infestors. This build indeed gives a bit too much gas for both Roach and a lot of zerglings.
If you want to be going for loads and loads of agression (as in 11:30 max out roach ling) you definitely want to take the gasses a little later, but you still want to have 4, just drones on minerals for a bit longer. In that case you want to take 2 at 5:50 and 2 once your lair finishes.
You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base.
Until you get roflstomped by 7gates from two gas at the nat.
7 gates without warptech isn't that dangerous. He needs gas for warptech.
This is not true. There are plenty of games where Protoss went 7 gate with 1 gas or took two gas, then stopped mining from one of them.
Like I mentioned: You can still scout this coming, however it's a lot more in depth and you need a lot more APM and really know what you're doing. The best way to realise this 1 gas all in is coming is by checking his front constantly, him trying to hide his initial probe, no moving out with a stalker and a zealot and no gasses being take whatsoever. You also have to realise that this is an all in and you are 100% fine simply spining up your main or natural and going for the counter attack which he will not be able to hold.
This is all much more in depth than I wanted this video to be. Hope this helps however!
On January 08 2013 20:31 ArhK wrote: Thanks for putting down in a clear manner this awesome BO. Could you detail the 6:30 Overlord scouting ? What are the possibilities, and incase you scout only 2 or 3 gaz and no tech building, what is to be expected ?
Thanks by advance :-).
You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base.
If you see no gas at the natural: Go for speed first, then lair, then upgrade. This is usually big big gateway agression or something like blink stalker agression. Go for speed and start making units, potentially even delay your lair till you hold the push. If he doesn't push, he took an incredibly greedy 3rd base: Attack him instead and go for a lair behind it if you didn't already.
If you see 1 gas at the natural: Go for either lair or speed, depending on how the game went and how you saw his chronoboost being spent (and overlord scout). You can expect a timing push at this point. It's going to be something like blink stalker, big gateway agression with a bit more sentries, potentially something weird with voidrays or something like that.
If you see 2 gas at the natural: Go for instant lair and then speed (he either expands or goes for a high tech push as in air, immortals, colossus, dt etc.)
Hope that helps!
~Lowko
If going for 3 gas based builds, always take the main gas closest to the scouting overlord, then both gas geysers at the natural, most zergs then assume you're on 4 gas.
On January 08 2013 20:31 ArhK wrote: Thanks for putting down in a clear manner this awesome BO. Could you detail the 6:30 Overlord scouting ? What are the possibilities, and incase you scout only 2 or 3 gaz and no tech building, what is to be expected ?
Thanks by advance :-).
You can assume the protoss took double gas in the main base.
If you see no gas at the natural: Go for speed first, then lair, then upgrade. This is usually big big gateway agression or something like blink stalker agression. Go for speed and start making units, potentially even delay your lair till you hold the push. If he doesn't push, he took an incredibly greedy 3rd base: Attack him instead and go for a lair behind it if you didn't already.
If you see 1 gas at the natural: Go for either lair or speed, depending on how the game went and how you saw his chronoboost being spent (and overlord scout). You can expect a timing push at this point. It's going to be something like blink stalker, big gateway agression with a bit more sentries, potentially something weird with voidrays or something like that.
If you see 2 gas at the natural: Go for instant lair and then speed (he either expands or goes for a high tech push as in air, immortals, colossus, dt etc.)
Hope that helps!
~Lowko
If going for 3 gas based builds, always take the main gas closest to the scouting overlord, then both gas geysers at the natural, most zergs then assume you're on 4 gas.
That will certainly work if the Zerg isn't really aware what's going on.
On January 08 2013 21:41 RaiZ wrote: I'm always wondering why most zerg build only 2 lings since they don't dps enough to kill a pylon and later on a gate/forge in order to block the expand... Sure it costs a lost, but the hatch's delay is huge aswell... Isn't that worth it ?
Once a zerg scouts the pylon block at the front they will most of the time go for 4 zerglings. A gateway block is way too much of an investment because at that point the zerg can simply move to the 3rd right away while keeping a mind that you just spent 250 minerals on useless buildings. It might be worth it in the lower leagues, because zergs aren't sure how to deal with. Once you move up the ladder however I feel it get's less and less good, because zergs will simply change up some timings.
EPT
