[G] Winning With Ease - Page 12

On September 01 2012 04:31 Salient wrote:
I have another suggestion if you're still taking requests:

Matchup: PvT
My build: Parting's double expo 8 gate
His build: CC First or 1 rax expo
Comments: It would be awesome to see your decision making while executing the parting build up to the point of the 8 gate attack. The idea is that you open with a standard 1 gate FE, and transition into the Parting build upon scouting a greedy build. This is supposed to be one of the more difficult builds to execute.

On September 01 2012 05:09 Sianos wrote:
LOL. The immortal allin is the one allin i never stopped once in a TvP and it´s awesome to see that 7! bunkers are needed to hold. But your theory is totally right, as long as you are ahead you can spamm those bunkers like you want and if you repell a push you can just salvage them and build your 3rd + additional barracks. I guess i´ll keep that in mind.

Edit: As for your naming issue i would suggest something like "Holding allins is easy", "How to hold allins" or even "How to get out of bronze/silver/gold whatever. " ^^

On September 01 2012 09:09 Natespank wrote:
Mr. Llama, your videos are making it harder and harder for me to all-in people.

Speaking of all-ins though, the one that I still find works wonders against people is the TvP 3rax before orbital, supply drop, scv all in build. I saw it first on a Kespa player's stream (he died to it), and somebody in chat said it was 12/13/13 rax with supply drop. My practice partner simply could not find a way to hold it short of blind countering it with cannons when I used it on him at a platinum level.

MVP did a version of it against Naniwa previous to his recent-ish GSL win on Entombed Valley. Any chance of a video on shutting that down?

Great work so far!

On September 01 2012 07:43 MrLlama wrote:


I'd be interested in learning what exactly you want for me to defend here

CC first/1 rax FE into a 10 min MMM push? earlier 8-9 min extra barracks push because he scouted your 3rd? Or do you simply want to see how the parting build is done (which would be a bit different from the rest of the series)




Well hopefully in the future you can hold it with this (and let me know how it goes).

As for the naming thing, the names you suggest aren't bad, but the thing is that not all of these are allins and sometimes it's just a decent amount of pressure (like holding the 10 min MMM push that they take a 3rd behind).

I'd say I'm stuck between, "Winning With Ease" and "How to Hold Allins" right now.

On September 01 2012 10:44 Salient wrote:


I mostly just wanted to see how it's possible to stay alive vs bio pushes when doing the Parting double expo. It seems like you should be too spread out to defend all three bases from bio pushes that hit before all your gateways are up and your bases saturated. So I guess that would be where he goes for extra barracks and pushes to punish the early 3rd.

On September 01 2012 10:47 sCCrooked wrote:
Mr. Llama, these videos aren't bad but I would request that some of the really hard-to-win-against builds be re-done with a more difficult opponent. Your immortal/sentry opponent was almost 110 seconds late with his 3 immortal push. That push should be arriving right around 10:00-10:30.

If you would like, I can ask several real-life friends of mine who are Grandmasters of various ranks to do the 3 immortal push against you and you can show us there how you beat it. Your zerg is around my level and I would really like to see someone beat the push when executed by GM or higher. PM me if you're interested in having higher-level opponents to show these defenses off against.

On September 01 2012 11:56 sCCrooked wrote:
Well although his push will contain slightly less units, also remember you will be just starting to get an army together. The real problem with this push when its executed well is really the timing. When you have between minute mark 8 and minute mark 12 (+some seconds) to get lots of units, their push becomes significantly less threatening.

That being said, its also really important since Immortal/Sentry is one of THE biggest things Zergs are having difficulty with to see its "proper defense" being done against a proper timing with good macro and follow-up being done behind it.

I wasn't being sarcastic with my statement of wanting to see you counter it either. I absolutely hate this push. It forces me to base-trade and hope he doesn't pay enough attention to what in his army is firing at what and his destruction of my bases is slightly slower than mine of his (although 3 immortals kill buildings really freaking fast). If ling/festor could work against the 2 and 3 immortal timings, I really want to know about it.

However since my practice is almost all entirely GM or 1600+ points master, I have to see it against good timings. I've seen someone breaking a really fast 3 base toss with festor/ling drops and it was really neat to see someone come up with something out of the ordinary roach/ling bore-fest we currently are dealing with. I have tried my own version of festor/ling before against immo/sentry because I thought fungals might be the key, but my GM friends showed me that with proper timing, its a lot scarier to deal with because you have so few forces.

I also think its really important to see someone who has really good positioning and micro with his push too. Without that, yeah any immo/sentry can be crushed if they suck, but I'd rather not base advice on "well if they suck, do action x".

I'll contact them tomorrow and see if one of the P will play you during one of our practice sessions sometime. Let me know when a good time in the next say 2 weeks or so would be for you~

*Note* I just looked through 35 replays of vs immo/sentry in my rep folder. The Ps consistently had 3 immortals, 12 sentries, 1 stalker, 5 zealots, 1 warpprism, 1 observer (on its way across the map) and +1 weapons completed with +2 on the way. This all arrives at your front (not leaving their base, its AT your bases attacking your stuff already) around 9:45-10:00. Your opponent had many more zealots, but remember those warp-ins could've been happening at your front while he lets both his army and the timing he hits to deal optimal damage.

On September 01 2012 12:18 sCCrooked wrote:
No problem. They're all taking it easy for Labor Day weekend too so they probably won't play this weekend. However all next week we're supposed to be in practice so I'll ask them then. I'll PM you on here when I get a response so we can coordinate. Oh, and if you're a follower of the foreign scene, you'll know quite a few of the guys. A lot of them are WCS finalists/national champions so it could be argued you'll be showing us a video vs active progamer.

I don't even care if they transition out of it somehow, just as long as you somehow don't die to this certain *!@&ing timing, I'll know the composition can deal with the timing and thus I can go back to experimenting/tweaking it.

On September 01 2012 14:29 SeAK wrote:
any terrans in masters with under 50 apm?

On September 01 2012 18:08 bigtabs wrote:


It's amazing how many people completely miss the point of what the OP is doing, even though he's explained it over and again and is a very simple concept. Hopefully the thread rename will help remove the pointless discussions.

On September 01 2012 18:04 Sianos wrote:
Hi MrLlama,

i have a request for video.

Matchup: TvT
My build: 1 rax fe into 3 rax into reactor medivacs
His build: Cloak Banshee opening into marine,siegetank,banshee scv allin
Maps: Like Shakuras Plateau where Banshee play is strong
Comment: The problem with this allin is that the cloak banshees give him total mapcontrol, which makes it almost impossible to see his push comming and catch it right in the middle of the map. Another problem is that his banshees can bind some of your marines in your minerallines even if you make 1 turret at each base, which reduce the force you can throw at him when you finally see his marines, siegetanks and scvs comming. I never hold it once.
Replay: TvT_Shakuras
This is just a sample, since i don´t play very much i have very few replays of this allin, but it gives you a rough idea. The version where he pushes out a bit later with more stuff and all his scvs is a lot harder to defend then the version the player used aggainst me in this replay. He even ddin´t got the cloak upgrade, i think because i scanned his banshee build.