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On June 13 2012 12:34 goFLiP wrote:
Bio is just effective because zerg metagame shifted into infestors. Back when WoL came out ling bling muta raped bio and that's how marine tank got popular. Obviously, nobody had the micro like they do now so probably they can deal better with ling bling muta, however I like this metagame shift into bio because it will make TvZ a bit more reactive.
I still think TvZ is broken but bio can maybe bring some fresh air to T.
I couldn't disagree with this more as during the time I went marine medi 70% of zergs were going ling bling muta. blings die in a fight then they have to rebuild. that means they cant keep making mutas. and ling muta vs marines is like trying to kill a banshee with a roach. When they have mutas stop dropping and only go for direct engagements and the mutas will just melt in direct engagments
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On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good.
Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
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On June 13 2012 12:59 goFLiP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good. Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
By the time he has ultras out your army comp will have a high amount of marauders as they usually survive most of the engagements if the zerg micros properly. You should have at least 3 techlab rax and be scanning his base at 15-16 min. If he doesn't have a spire building with his hive, then hes going ULTRAS. You should lift up 2 of your reactored rax, build techlabs on them and build new rax on the reactors. It's simply reacting to what the zerg does.Bio is the way to go right now and tvz is a fun and perfectly fine mu!
edit: dropping is actually not required. The reason t's dropped with tanks is so that they can move up their siege line and delay zerg tech, so that tanks are more effective. With bio you don't have that problem, because your forcing the zerg to invest in army instead of tech. You just keep on doing direct engagements at his 4th and 3rd and trading with him until he can't keep up with you. You should be looking at your army almost through out the whole game.( as early game you're powering and only doing a small attack.)
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On June 13 2012 12:59 goFLiP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good. Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
That push usually just denies the third and makes the Zerg pump out a good many lings, which generally I feel puts us in a fairly even position (especially if you are building your own third in base around 10ish). The important thing, as with most Terran situations, is to keep pumping that macro, and the other key I am finding is that during this attack you need to be getting up your 3rd and setting up your infostructure (get starport down, reactor for starport on factory, and a couple more raxes).
If you can multitask all of that, it has worked out pretty well for me.
As the poster above me mentioned, the nice part is you do not need to drop. BUT I should also say you need to be running around in several groups. I usually try and send 2 medivacs to different spots (either walking or flying depending on where I am going). Then send the main army somewhere else. Keep clearing that creep.
Also, for anyone who is bad with micro, at least just put your mara's up front. Even if you can not split, if you can at least put the maras up front and the rines in back you should at least not have a horrible battle. This is a trick you should use in TvP as well. I am pretty good with unit control, so I get the maras in front, rines in back, then split out the maras into 2-3 groups, then split the rines out into as many groups as I have time for. Then A move everything forward. It's not perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than just rolling over and dying.
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The mobility with this style is extremely nice, and seeing as how as of now tanks are going to be pretty useless in the expansion, becoming good with this style might be worth our time.
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I`ve seen some players trying out some really early medivac timings, punishing zergs taking a fast 3rd, in worst case scenario, you just jump back into the medivacs and leave. u save alot of gas if u dont build tanks, so u will have alot more medivacs, which is not just good in general, but u can drop SO MUCH more and you are way more mobile without tanks, and with alot of medivacs, you can always save alot of units, until he gets good fungals. I dont play terran, but a friend of mine is way better with playing bio and gets some ghost in the mix to kill the festors.
worth a try imo.
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EPT
