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Hi guys
As most of us would've seen at MLG, in Game 3 MKP used Marine Marauders and LOTS of Medivacs to fight Stephano. I don't remember if Stephano had blings and infestors, Im pretty sure he did. PLus he had roaches.
So basically, as a Terran I hate seeing blings splash damage melting my marines, in MKP's case he used Marauders to tank the bling splash damage too.
I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Or you need insane micro to achieve this and only people like MKP can do it? I assume so because you need to split perfectly, etc. etc without the help of tanks.
Or if this does not work...then I guess we will just go back to marine/tank/medivac standard style?
Please discuss, would love to hear some people's opinions regarding his crazy play vs Stephano and whether this will be viable vs Z or not.
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banes are still ok vs marauders, stephano lost since he was unable to kill the medivacs, he wouldve won if he could afford a few more infestors to cover both fungalling the army and fungaling the medivacs
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MarineKing's play sits on a razor's edge. It is very dependent on his ability to micro. At the same time, it's a double-edge blade because a mis-step in micro or decision making and it all falls apart.
While the overwhelming amount of Medivacs surely helped MarineKing weather the swarm of Stephano, it was his unit composition that rounded it out. MarineKing had just enough Marauders to make the Banelings and Infestors not cost efficient. When this happens, Ling, Baneling, and Infestor will not defeat bio play from Terran. Being unable to kill the Medivacs was just the last nail in the coffin.
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Well MKP's been doing this style for a long time, and a few other terrans have done it too, though not as often. Seeing as it works in Code S, yes it does work, but obviously you need decent micro.
@HoMM unless the baneling hits the maximum amount of marauders, I would not say they are even close to OK. You need that gas to be killing marines or for infestors to fungal the marine/medivacs, or else the high medivac number will keep any roach/ling you have from dealing enough damage to him.
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a few terrans have been doing it too but it requires a lot of good micro. In fact, his micro is so good that he just pushes and sometimes ignoring creep all together.
it has a different kind of micro, letting marauders to act as a barrier between banelings and marines and the marine splitting.
plus this do fairly well against roach ling baneling infestors style and just lings infestors still.
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In lower leagues, pre splitting before an engagement can help out if you're using MMM against zerg. This is bronze to platinum I think?
Even if your micro isn't hardcore like the King's pre splitting does wonders and when he rushes in to engage you with lings and infestors at the back; he'll quickly realize that his fungals won't do much but he'll fungal anyway. Meanwhile your army is pre split and in a concave and you're just a firing squad for those lings. During the battle try pulling back groups of units like, whenever they're almost surrounded. It's like kiting chargelots with MMM you pull back different groups depending on what situation they are in but you do it group by group and maintain a concave.
Also, if you go MMM against zerg and they go ling infestor you can always chuck in ghosts for EMPs and snipes. MarineKing doesn't do this because he's a boss but it's not too hard for someone going MMM to throw in ghosts. They are from barracks with tech labs anyway. Get cloak, most zergs don't keep an overseer with their army unless they know they need it. So grab 5 ghosts get cloak and surprise him with surprise EMPs and snipes.
Basically, MMM should work against zerg, it's just that you need to know how to utilize your bio units properly against infestor ling. It should work despite you not having marineking-esque micro. I am platinum terran and being the Marineking fan I am, I copy his style and build and against zerg I do use MMM and this is what my experience has taught me.
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ling/bling/muta is a much stronger counter to this style. MMM is fairly strong vs infestor/ling and infestor/bane/ling. It seems counterintuitive, but mutas are super strong vs it.
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I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg?
Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ.
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On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ.
It's very susceptible to mass baneling busts, as well as super heavy ling/bling with fast ups WITHOUT teching to infestors. Slow teching to mutas makes it very strong, but far more delayed than the 11 or 12 minute mark.
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On June 11 2012 16:33 FabledIntegral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ. It's very susceptible to mass baneling busts, as well as super heavy ling/bling with fast ups WITHOUT teching to infestors. Slow teching to mutas makes it very strong, but far more delayed than the 11 or 12 minute mark.
If you have a wall of 3raxes you can defend the bust very well. I do agree super heavy lin/bling is a good reaction to MMM but I wouldnt call it autoloss for terran.
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Ive been playing mmm vs z for a while now. MarineKing actually did one of my builds vs stephano. I was really shocked.
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Tried it for awhile now on ladder and it work very well with even with shit micro on plat - low-dia. Just basic select marines and move behind the marauders before the engagement usually wins the fight. Try to stay as aggressive as possible and don't let him get a deathball.
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On June 11 2012 16:37 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 16:33 FabledIntegral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ. It's very susceptible to mass baneling busts, as well as super heavy ling/bling with fast ups WITHOUT teching to infestors. Slow teching to mutas makes it very strong, but far more delayed than the 11 or 12 minute mark. If you have a wall of 3raxes you can defend the bust very well. I do agree super heavy lin/bling is a good reaction to MMM but I wouldnt call it autoloss for terran.
You still need a bunker.
This is coming from experience from someone who walls in with 3 rax and plays MMM vs Zerg since the release of the game, sometimes mixing in Thors, and very occasionally BFH.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 11 2012 16:37 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 16:33 FabledIntegral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ. It's very susceptible to mass baneling busts, as well as super heavy ling/bling with fast ups WITHOUT teching to infestors. Slow teching to mutas makes it very strong, but far more delayed than the 11 or 12 minute mark. If you have a wall of 3raxes you can defend the bust very well. I do agree super heavy lin/bling is a good reaction to MMM but I wouldnt call it autoloss for terran.
Think he's talking about mid game mass bane busts. Either way, 3 rax wall is not the way to go when doing this build imo. You should open 1 rax cc reactor hellion into this build. Puts much more pressure vs zerg early on and it makes you safe vs early ling bane busts.
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I do this against Zergs on ladder and it really comes down to multitasking and being constantly aggressive.
I open with 2rax fact cc with hellion marauder, similar to what polt does, and then it comes down to trying to limit creep and keep Z's drone count low. You do need really good micro, bungling one engagement can really, really hurt. I think Polt gets siege tanks for pure defensive purposes.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
It really comes down to your micro. For example, MKP lost a game in which Stephano caught him off guard (he was on the creep, way inside Zerg territory), Fungal on his entire army and Banelings ate Marines.
That was the only time I saw his entire army melt away like that.
Still ended up winning 2-1 though.
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Medivacs are the counter to infestors if you can avoid them getting fungaled (which is pretty hard, agreed).
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I think it's a metagame shift in TvZ.
Back when us Z's were going Muta/Ling/Bane, MMM fell out of style due to marauders being pretty useless, and Terrans went to marine tank/pure marine strats (with the occasional mech). But with Ling/Infestor, pure marine and marine tank aren't as good as MMM.
I think it's good as long as you micro well.
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Hey Guys,
since the queen range-buff hellions aren't that viable anymore in TvZ imo.
Inspired by MKP's bio-builds against zerg, I've been experimenting with 1rax-fe into bio-play and doing quite well.
Since you just skip hellions, you're able to put some pressure onto the zerg with at least 12-14 marines at the 7 minute mark.
If the zerg is going for an early third(~06:-7:00) you're able to deny that base going up and also snipe some overlords all over the map. In addition to that you can kill off a good amount of lings,utilizing mineralpatches and other chokepoints in your favour.
The keypoint is not to overcommit with this force.
After this push, you should build your third inside your main. The goal is setting up a good economy for your everlasting attacks against the zerg.
At the 10-11min mark you're able to execute a devastating attack with 1/1 ,stim, combat shields and 2 medivacs, having mostly marines but also couple of marauders in your mix.
NOTE: This push can be executed slightly earlier, depending on the infestor-timing.
The maingoal of this bio-build is to exhaust the zerg's most important ressource: larvae
If you pressure the zerg permanently he will not be able to drone up and invest many larva in his eco, cause you're forcing an in-time-reaction out of the zerg to fend off your pressure(that means you will be able to keep up in economy and get ahead, since the pressure continues).
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Since litterally every zerg started going ling infestor and the queenbuff alot of terran players started experimenting with new stuff.
MKP has always done this crazy bio with no tanks style, however it recently started getting more popular among some players.
Some other terrans has started to do the opposite, adding in more tanks as a reaction to linginfestor.
i don't think theres a best style for the time being, mostly comes down to personal prefference or what fits your style of play best.
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On June 11 2012 17:37 Mahtasooma wrote:
Medivacs are the counter to infestors if you can avoid them getting fungaled (which is pretty hard, agreed).
I think one of the important parts of MKP's Bio TvZ is that he often brings some SCVs to repair the Medivacs. Something that I rarely see from other people.
As I think Medivac retention is key to playing Bio against ling/Infestor.
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It becomes extremely hard to win once ultras are out if you don't have superb micro, anything else and you are good to go, it has been my go to composition(with variable builds) for a long time, very versatile and can be very useful for swift counter attacks such as doom drops, still, lost some games with this compo after being very far ahead because mass medivacs and very few units dont work vs ultras, they simply dont die.
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On June 11 2012 18:38 IshinShishi wrote:
It becomes extremely hard to win once ultras are out if you don't have superb micro, anything else and you are good to go, it has been my go to composition(with variable builds) for a long time, very versatile and can be very useful for swift counter attacks such as doom drops, still, lost some games with this compo after being very far ahead because mass medivacs and very few units dont work vs ultras, they simply dont die.
I don't think so, as bio is much better than marine/tank vs ultras... u already have marauders, while tanks just do very little dps to ultras... so the best choice for your opponent should be infestor-BL, as u are able to get fungal on the marines and corruptor will help keeping medivac count low. Going for ultras while terran has already marauders is just bad decision making(see stephano-MKP on daybreak, IPL4)
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I have been playing pure Bio in TvZ since weeks exclusivly and tryed alot of builds myself cause there is not much on the forums ( i am thinking about putting together a [G] about it, too but need to get better first as 3 weeks of diablo took away the time to play sc2 (i was playing masters on ladder then, but stopped before promotion cause of d3)).
You have to realise that one fungal can and will end the game if you clump up.
You have to have really good macro as you cannot afford to let your barracks production slip alot.
You have to have good micro and splitting and multitasking to add more barracks and expand and produce behind all your pressure going on.
The key is to be in zergs face as mutch as possible but also to be able to judge when you can sit back for a minute to gather more army.
I personally ( and i know there are many ppl how think otherwise) think that dropplay is not really good with that pure bio in TvZ in early to midgame. I found it more difficult for Zerg if you trade huge armys all the time and the 8 marines that you drop somewhere else with a medivacs are often times my saviors in a big battle.
Some tips:
- Pre splitt ALL the TIME, EVERYTIME if you lose one army really bad against fungal + baneling hits you have most likely lost the game if Z is decent, if you do this massive droppplay can bring you back in the game
- you'r goal is to get around 16-22 medivacs so be careful using them (that's also why i think dropplay is more damaging to you than it helps you cause the chance of losing a medivac is always there
- I have played around with marauder : marine ratio and finally got to a point where i can say: it depends on what Z is doing:
# if Z goes for roaches go 4 rax techlab
# if Z goes for anything else go 1rax tl
# as infestors are out go up to 3-4 rax tl from your 1 rax with tl
# as ultras hit the field do not be afraid to get up to 6-7 techlabs just for the extra marauders you can make marines after all anyway
Also i find it better to build more rax instead of building reactors to continue production in the meantime.
You'r main goal is to deny his expansions and to expand yourself.
As you are in his face all the time you should try to expand frequently. I do this kinda every 5 Minutes starting at the 11 Minute mark, sometimes i even build 2 cc's right after one another.
If you are pushed back defensive Planetary like in tvp helps alot cause he will be on alot of lings most likely.
I now use the opening in the 3rd game between mkp and stephano and it works well, also i used 4rax or cc first into 6 rax alot.
I find this a very fun way to play as i often times got cornered in my 2 or 3 bases and as sieging though the middle is very difficult i really like the mobility and beeing in the zergs face at all time alot. It's sometimes frustrating to get fungaled and instant lose but well that's your own fault 
gl with that! Really like it and definitly recommend using it! With a bit practice it's definitly effective.
Btw: Mutas are petty bad against pure bio as you have tons of marines producing, early ebay and ~5 turrets are protecting everything really well. Also it delays infestortech alot, if you see a muta player just attack with a huge army and alot of medivacs and win. :D
I think staying on pure ling / bling / infestor for the whole game is best on zergs site of things.
Also Bloords are a joke, just drop marauders at every expo and kill every hatchery build 2-3 more starports meanwhile and just roll the few bloords or go pure marines and kill them while Z try to take out the marauders sniping the hatches.
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On June 11 2012 17:26 ysnake wrote:
It really comes down to your micro. For example, MKP lost a game in which Stephano caught him off guard (he was on the creep, way inside Zerg territory), Fungal on his entire army and Banelings ate Marines.
That was the only time I saw his entire army melt away like that.
Still ended up winning 2-1 though.
If you're talking about game 2 in the last MLG...it wasn't MMM. But what you say still holds true in general, though.
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So here is another thread that is on a really similar style. Basically it's a bio raven comp and a few people, myself included, have been trying to figure out how to pull that one off. So not completely sure this belongs here, but the goal was still to do a tankless style.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343345
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Only MarineKing can do this, sorry guys
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Hong Kong124 Posts
On June 11 2012 20:47 Daniel C wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 17:26 ysnake wrote:
It really comes down to your micro. For example, MKP lost a game in which Stephano caught him off guard (he was on the creep, way inside Zerg territory), Fungal on his entire army and Banelings ate Marines.
That was the only time I saw his entire army melt away like that.
Still ended up winning 2-1 though. If you're talking about game 2 in the last MLG...it wasn't MMM. But what you say still holds true in general, though.
Agree ... the Entomb Valley game is way different from MMM ..it is a marine + Mech play.
On June 11 2012 16:43 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 16:37 derpinator wrote:On June 11 2012 16:33 FabledIntegral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ. It's very susceptible to mass baneling busts, as well as super heavy ling/bling with fast ups WITHOUT teching to infestors. Slow teching to mutas makes it very strong, but far more delayed than the 11 or 12 minute mark. If you have a wall of 3raxes you can defend the bust very well. I do agree super heavy lin/bling is a good reaction to MMM but I wouldnt call it autoloss for terran. Think he's talking about mid game mass bane busts. Either way, 3 rax wall is not the way to go when doing this build imo. You should open 1 rax cc reactor hellion into this build. Puts much more pressure vs zerg early on and it makes you safe vs early ling bane busts.
what are your goals for the reactor hellions? Do oyu mean the hellions can deny the bust ?
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More important than MKP's micro, or his medivac count, or his balancing of marauders to tank splash and marines to deal damage....was by far the timings he hit. He controlled stephano, never letting him do something greedy without at the very least faking an attack to force units instead of drones. MKP gets a lot of praise for his micro but it's his brainy timings and the way he makes opponents do what HE wants that ultimately wins him the games. The thing is most casters don't even bother to bring these strategic moves up, so most people are left thinking it's literally just his micro and mechanics that are winning him games.
Anyways, if you want to pull something away from his bio play vs Stephano, check what and WHEN he does stuff with his units.
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On June 11 2012 21:57 FinalForm wrote:
Only MarineKing can do this, sorry guys
And you :D
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Honestly, I know it seems like MKP was producing tons and tons of Medivacs, but it was actually fairly standard out of one Starport. The difference is that MKP just never -stopped- producing Medivacs, and Stephano never had enough fungals left over to kill them. I would say though that unless your micro is MKP's level, (in which you can bait out extra fungals or split effectively against overwhelming numbers of banelings/lings), and more importantly, your macro is MKP's level, (in which you can produce evenly against a three-basing zerg who swarms the field), it's probably better to just have a few solid tanks in your composition.
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On June 11 2012 15:58 dynwar7 wrote:
So basically, as a Terran I hate seeing blings splash damage melting my marines, in MKP's case he used Marauders to tank the bling splash damage too.
If you hate seeing your units die to banelings in TvZ. Do not play MMM
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Marinekings style is not easy to copy. I think the way he plays is really risky but it suits him well. He plays very differently than other terrans so zegs might have hard time to adapt to his playstyle. This style to use i think you have to have good micro and targetting fire.
Also his TvP is different from others. He rarely uses ghosts and starts vikings late. It can pay off (he is not for no reason being one of the best tvp players) But it can also hurt you really much.
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This style would beat ling/infestor if you have decent marine spliting and using marauders as shield and also focus fire on banelings.
But this style would straight up lose to muta/bane/lings. Because they would get crazy amount of lings/banelings and around 10 mutas(not massing them) and straight up crushed that force and destroy your medivac.
Watch DRG vs MKP in Game 1 and Game 2 in MLG Spring Championship.
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The ez answer is that It's good Against Infenstor play because the Zerg can't fungal medivacs all the time. Mauraders are great under medivacs with the beefy health and can snipe brofesters easily. They are also good against ultras and all the extra gas goes to upgrades/Vikings/ghost
Against muta play not so much. Mauraders are useles against Mutas and medivacs can never live f you lose your army. And you will lose your army.
I've actually stopped producing tanks once I see ling infester. They are amazing at sniping infenstors, but once ultras pop out unless you have +3 vehicle weapons the tanks do more harm then good.
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You actually need extremely good macro and immense multitask really. I watched bomber do this against july basically by the 15 minute mark bomber's supply never fell below 150. The micro on bomber's part wasn't immaculate; he denied creep well and always got off engagements when he was ready to split this MM. Although his micro was good it was his crazy macro that won him the game.
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On June 11 2012 19:09 eusoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 18:38 IshinShishi wrote:
It becomes extremely hard to win once ultras are out if you don't have superb micro, anything else and you are good to go, it has been my go to composition(with variable builds) for a long time, very versatile and can be very useful for swift counter attacks such as doom drops, still, lost some games with this compo after being very far ahead because mass medivacs and very few units dont work vs ultras, they simply dont die. I don't think so, as bio is much better than marine/tank vs ultras... u already have marauders, while tanks just do very little dps to ultras... so the best choice for your opponent should be infestor-BL, as u are able to get fungal on the marines and corruptor will help keeping medivac count low. Going for ultras while terran has already marauders is just bad decision making(see stephano-MKP on daybreak, IPL4)
No not really. Reason being that with marine tank, when you pull your marines back, the ultras start attacking singular units like Tanks. It's much harder when ultras are coming towards you to make it so the ultras aren't hitting the majority of your bio units if there are no tanks. At the same time, infestors while being less useful due to medivacs for the damage for fungal make the army composition significantly better with ultras - as the fungal is no longer to deal splash dmg (which helps) but to pin you vs the ultras, where ultras slaughter marauders (only when nonkited).
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On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ.
except vs muta/sling/bling
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I did not watch ALL of MKP's games, but he did vs a zerg (forgot the zerg's name) a 10 deppot 15 CC opening. I tried perfecting that (got my macro on it starting to rise). All I remember of it: 10 deppot, 15 cc, 1 rax, OC on both when rax finished , rax @~25% -> gas. Rax finished: 1 more, +1 more cc
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The style is very tough to pull off, but it is very fun and powerful. The hard part is the micro. Maraders can eat banelings. You need to maintain a very high medivac count. And I think You need to be the aggressor in this situation. I have been practicing this style on the ladder since I love the mobility of Bio and how you have to be active on the map with it. Pure Mech is kinda boring to me. Another thing about this style is you gotta be producing all the time, your units are cheap and you will trade armies. Bio mech is good, if you add some tanks into this style just to control space. It works good vs infestor/ling/ultra. You can use drop play to pull the infestors away from the ultras, you can kite ultras all day if the infestors are trying to fungul a drop.
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I'm Diamond and I'm playing MMM nearly all the time in TvZ and its my best matchup. Sometimes I build a handfull of tanks for defence.
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On June 12 2012 02:20 HeeroFX wrote:
The style is very tough to pull off, but it is very fun and powerful. The hard part is the micro. Maraders can eat banelings. You need to maintain a very high medivac count. And I think You need to be the aggressor in this situation. I have been practicing this style on the ladder since I love the mobility of Bio and how you have to be active on the map with it. Pure Mech is kinda boring to me. Another thing about this style is you gotta be producing all the time, your units are cheap and you will trade armies. Bio mech is good, if you add some tanks into this style just to control space. It works good vs infestor/ling/ultra. You can use drop play to pull the infestors away from the ultras, you can kite ultras all day if the infestors are trying to fungul a drop.
Well, except that's kinda nonsensical to say the infestors are pulled away. The Zerg usually has like 8+ infestors. They don't send all 8 to deal with a drop... they usually have a spine or something and use lings to handle drops, not infestors (or they use 1-2 tops).
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What are your thoughts on adding ravens if you can win before the deathball? And then keep dropping and sniping extractors.
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On June 11 2012 16:07 Battousai13 wrote:
MarineKing's play sits on a razor's edge. It is very dependent on his ability to micro. At the same time, it's a double-edge blade because a mis-step in micro or decision making and it all falls apart.
This. This by itself makes it a great tool to learn that you actually don't need to rely on tanks to win, and it will improve your macro/micro (or you'll lose a lot :D), but you may only need tanks at your level. At lower levels, tanks work just as well since the zerg is much slower at setting up surrounds or concaves/good general army position.
The advantage gained by marineking by choosing this non-tank path is that he can attack and move up much faster than having to siege/desiege tanks in order to not be broken by any zerg A-move.
If you want to try this I really suggest watching your army a lot and learning to macro without looking (which you should be doing anyway). Use control clicks to separate marines and marauders approriately and play lots of marine split challenge :D
masters terran 
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On June 12 2012 02:54 9-BiT wrote:
What are your thoughts on adding ravens if you can win before the deathball? And then keep dropping and sniping extractors.
Personally (not sure who you're asking), if they're going infestor/ling I add banshees to the army, and if they're going ling/bling/muta I add ravens. Either way I get starports with tech labs as soon as I start to accumulate some gas. Ravens aren't very useful beyond 1-2 vs ling/infestor/ultra, but can come in handy if they go BL. Also, if they go BL, you've luckily (no matter their composition) built already 4 starports (ish), 1 with a reactor and 3(ish) with tech labs.
On June 12 2012 03:03 reikai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 16:07 Battousai13 wrote:
MarineKing's play sits on a razor's edge. It is very dependent on his ability to micro. At the same time, it's a double-edge blade because a mis-step in micro or decision making and it all falls apart. This. This by itself makes it a great tool to learn that you actually don't need to rely on tanks to win, and it will improve your macro/micro (or you'll lose a lot :D), but you may only need tanks at your level. At lower levels, tanks work just as well since the zerg is much slower at setting up surrounds or concaves/good general army position. The advantage gained by marineking by choosing this non-tank path is that he can attack and move up much faster than having to siege/desiege tanks in order to not be broken by any zerg A-move. If you want to try this I really suggest watching your army a lot and learning to macro without looking (which you should be doing anyway). Use control clicks to separate marines and marauders approriately and play lots of marine split challenge :D masters terran
Control clicks? You mean just putting your marines in a separate control group...? Trying to actual use "ctrl click" on marines would be suicide. You have your MMM all in one control group, and those same marines (just themselves) in another...
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Bio play has always been considered "viable" in TvZ at high levels but it is entirely based upon the Terran players ability to out-micro the Zerg player. It seems almost as if bio play is most viable if the Terran knows his skill level/micro is better than his Zerg opponent. In MKP's case, he probably knows his micro is better than any Zerg player out there so he has no qualms about playing a heavy MMM style against Zergs, regardless of Infestors/Banelings. MKP is one of the very few we every see try this style simply because most Terrans do not have enough APM to make this MMM/Bio style effective against high level Zergs.
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This is actually used quiet a bit on the korean server. When I face this on NA ladder it's an easy win because they don't seem to have the micro. You really need to have good micro to do this effectively and is probably not viable lower levels.
A terran who doesn't have good micro will never be able to do this and win in a normal game as you need to be able to split well and not have 3 banelings kill 20 marines every time.
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MKP played this style in the last round of Code A last season, and Yugioh shut it down rather efficiently with mass infestors and ultras. The key is to kill the medivacs. Maybe mix a few hydras into the army for this sole purpose? Fungal the medivacs, and instead of using infested terrans, have 3-4 hydras take care of them. Given the massive amounts of creepspread encouraged by the queen ranged upgrade (zerg players build more queens), it might work.
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so how would this survive the mid game mass baneling bust kind of thing?
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On June 12 2012 04:25 zhurai wrote:
so how would this survive the mid game mass baneling bust kind of thing?
I'd think it'd be an issue of scouting, and then reacting. Getting proper spread of your marines pre-bust and also having enough bunkers spread out and walled, etc to withhold the mass banelings.
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It would also be very map dependent. On a map like entombed you can wall off entirely with barracks and be completely safe, as MKP showed. But other maps with a smaller ramp you would be in a lot of trouble.
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On June 11 2012 16:37 AeroEffect wrote:
Ive been playing mmm vs z for a while now. MarineKing actually did one of my builds vs stephano. I was really shocked.
Are you sure you haven't been doing one of his builds? :o
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I hope this doesnt become standard...
MMM is boring enough in TvP
It wont be fun watching MMM in TvZ and TvP. Really need HoTs 
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On June 12 2012 04:58 XXXSmOke wrote:I hope this doesnt become standard... MMM is boring enough in TvP It wont be fun watching MMM in TvZ and TvP. Really need HoTs
Are you actually worried about MMM becoming standard in TvZ?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On June 11 2012 22:06 Neurosis wrote:
More important than MKP's micro, or his medivac count, or his balancing of marauders to tank splash and marines to deal damage....was by far the timings he hit. He controlled stephano, never letting him do something greedy without at the very least faking an attack to force units instead of drones. MKP gets a lot of praise for his micro but it's his brainy timings and the way he makes opponents do what HE wants that ultimately wins him the games. The thing is most casters don't even bother to bring these strategic moves up, so most people are left thinking it's literally just his micro and mechanics that are winning him games.
Anyways, if you want to pull something away from his bio play vs Stephano, check what and WHEN he does stuff with his units.
This was actually pointed out by Artosis. MKP "faked" an attack, moved his entire army across the map, then just went back home.
But yeah, MKP is one hell of a player.
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On June 12 2012 04:58 XXXSmOke wrote:I hope this doesnt become standard... MMM is boring enough in TvP It wont be fun watching MMM in TvZ and TvP. Really need HoTs
If having 300 EPM because standard for Terran players then maybe but at this point, no.
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I do this every TvZ. It's the best way to play by far. An early medivac timing helps clear creep and maybe do some damage if they take a fast third as they won't have much tech yet. In the late game you need to go 3 factory with 3/0 mech upgrades for tank thor transition, as the mech units help a lot if you weren't able to do enough damage to the zerg and their infestor/baneling count gets out of control. With very good micro you can get away with few or no tanks, but tanks (even as few as 2-3) help a ton in zoning infestors and banelings, which lets you use your MMM even better. You simply target fire the infestors if they get too close.
I would say some maps are very hard for bio, but it is a great style if you can micro and multitask well.
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I have been doing something similar to this style for a long time. I find it fun but the micro required to prevent 60+ units from "balling up" is ridiculous.
Pre-splitting is great, however not always realistic. If you are not map aware then a zerg army blindsiding you from a direction you were not prepare can cost you the game. The best case scenario is you attacking a zerg who is cowering in his base, with his army set up and positioned in a very predictable fashion.
I find that this style relies heavily on how well you can mitigate the fungals. If a zerg is sloppy with his fungals or you juke and prod well enough to force him to waste them then you have a much better change of surviving. In addition of you find that your zerg is the type that uses too much infest energy to deal with drops (sometimes he will use 2 fungals, 3 infesteds), then keep doing the drops and he will run dry.
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This playstyle is pretty good in general.
As already said, it's weakness is poorly microed bio.
But in fact you trade way more cost effecient than Zerg does. You'll mostly have equal or more bases, because you mobility is as awesome as ****. So it's super easy to kill Zerg's bases.. Just think about Cloud Kingdom.. Zerg will never have more than 3-4 bases..
He is mobile for sure, too. But you can allow to just let 1/2 or 3/4 of your army fight against his army, the other part can do runby meanwhile.. And kill bases. (or drop)
Static defenses arent the problem due to marauders.
Sure, you'll need higher APM and have to play a lot of attention.. But with the recent changes in TvZ, i think, due to it's mobility, high DPS and varibility - pure bio has the most potential. And it superboosted with good micro (because you will trade more cost effecient than Zerg does by far)
A small amount of micro (splitting, putting Marauders in front) is necessary though.
Zerg wont go T3 - Brood lords against this.. If he did, his army is too slow, so you would kill everything.
Ultralisks are rather weak due to marauder..
Muta Ling isn't good as well..
There is nearly no good option for a Zerg. Just Infestor Ultralisks Baneling with awesome fungles.. But again: With decent micro and paying attention he shouldn't get those fungles.. And you could also do drops against this..
I really like pure bio and start to play it more and more..
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Mass medivac is so good vs. infestor play due to the fact the Zerg really can never kill the medivacs.
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On June 12 2012 08:42 lorestarcraft wrote:
Mass medivac is so good vs. infestor play due to the fact the Zerg really can never kill the medivacs.
THIS THIS THIS THIS
That and with all of my bio builds for TvZ, I go for double ebay play to make sure my upgrades are ahead. It helps you trade so much better.
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wasn't MMM basically standard in beta and when the game first came out?
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On June 12 2012 08:42 lorestarcraft wrote:
Mass medivac is so good vs. infestor play due to the fact the Zerg really can never kill the medivacs.
Unless the Zerg uses 2 fungals and 3 infested terrans
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On June 12 2012 08:49 DarkerThanKuro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 08:42 lorestarcraft wrote:
Mass medivac is so good vs. infestor play due to the fact the Zerg really can never kill the medivacs. THIS THIS THIS THIS That and with all of my bio builds for TvZ, I go for double ebay play to make sure my upgrades are ahead. It helps you trade so much better.
Can you pm/link me some and esp. the upgrade build u use? I would like to give it a try Also some reps would be nice! thx!
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Can anyone help me on splitting. And also i dont know how do these pro pre-splitt their units. Thnk!
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I love getting into midgame with this build but I just get owned every time by a 8-10 minute ling/bling bust. I have no idea how you are supposed to defend it, I'll have 4 bunkers up and still get wrecked.
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As others have said previously, his MMM build is very contextual and dependent on his ability to split his units. a lot of other plays would find it hard to emulate this style because it requires a lot of multitasking. You'd have to be able to micro effectively, expand, as well as put your marauders to the front to tank bane hits while also splitting, which is quite difficult.
Not to mention the fact that if you are caught unaware for even a second the zerg could potentially fungal your entire army and roll banelings through you only chance at victory.
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I've been trying this recently going 1 rax FE into 3 rax with double gas then getting a single tech lab for stim and going straight into double upgrades, then a factory before my other add-ons and having a reasonable amount of success in doing so against the popular infestor and upgraded lings into a fast hive style that stephano popularised.
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I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good.
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I'm greedy, but every zerg fe's so it's very viable. Basically this is a way to play against zerg that uses the positive attributes of zerg and terran together. (high micro potential, high amount of production). The reason this build works is because you match the zerg in ups and production. This means the zerg cannot eco once your attack starts. It feels weird at first not attacking at all for so long but you'll see that you can match and surpass the zergs eco. I could start introducing more drops in my play, but it's unnecessary for me right now. (games played vs diamond and high plat)
http://drop.sc/players/US/1222927/vVvWaKai
Also, i've released a series of blogs on getting better... will answer some of your questions and i have one entry specifically for splitting.
http://www.vvv-gaming.com/forum/user/17406-vvv-wakai/
the one at the complete bottom is the microing one.
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Really interested in this strategy, anyone has any good replay to share? I'm so sick of the weak tanks. and seems like blizzard has no intention whatsoever to buff up the stupid tanks just yet.
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If you go MMM style you have to go double engineering bay because without sufficient upgrades just ling/bane will kill you. This style is very micro dependent so if you are in a lower league i would actually try to use these types of builds to really tax your multi-tasking and micro. This style is very viable but if you lose your initial army and first 2 medivacs doing no damage you are set extremely far behind.
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There is nothing spectacularly new or game changing about bio in TvZ. It is definitely 100% viable, it is just not used that much. The same thing can be said for mech in TvZ, it is also not used very much but widely agreed to be completely viable on all levels. Bio, biomech and mech are all just very different animals that require very different things and my personal take is that bio and mech are probably less common simply because of the fact that they take a lot more practice to get right. I mean, people say that bio is a lot more dangerous to play because you are relying on micro and if you fail an engagement it is over. Well for TvZ if you fail a huge engagement and lose your army with ANY composition you are for all intents and purposes dead.
I like to think of a scale with micro on one side and positioning on the other, this scale identifies where a unit composition gets its functionality from. Pure mech is furthest out on the positioning side of the scale meaning that it is 100% reliant on the positioning of your own units, and your ability to read and restrict the army movement of your opponent. It requires almost no micro, being on the positioning side of the scale subsequently means that if you make a mistake in positioning, move too far with everything unsieged without knowing where the enemy army is, you will probably lose your army and that is game.
Bio is on the opposite side of the scale and relies as much on micro as mech does on positioning. Bio on the other hand is almost completely ignorant of positioning, same thing here, if you fail to control your army correctly you will lose. Biomech, or to an extension various compositions of skymech falls a bit more towards the center of the scale requiring both positioning and micro to function but at the same time do not get punished to the same extent by a mistake on one. I reckon this is why biomech is more standard and because it is in the middle of the scale it also allows it to utilize both positioning and micro in engagements.
That explains I think why biomech is more common, but it does not mean that it is in any way "better". As long as you understand how the different styles work, that is when you can start to go with the one that suits your style the most.
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On June 12 2012 09:35 Enemyy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 08:49 DarkerThanKuro wrote:On June 12 2012 08:42 lorestarcraft wrote:
Mass medivac is so good vs. infestor play due to the fact the Zerg really can never kill the medivacs. THIS THIS THIS THIS That and with all of my bio builds for TvZ, I go for double ebay play to make sure my upgrades are ahead. It helps you trade so much better. Can you pm/link me some and esp. the upgrade build u use? I would like to give it a try Also some reps would be nice! thx!
LOL almost every TvZ build now uses fast double ups since fast upgraded lings into infestors is what 99% of zergs are doing right now, it's not very hard to plop down two ebays and get a faster 3rd gas
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your Country52797 Posts
On June 11 2012 16:31 derpinator wrote:Show nested quote +I would love to hear your opinion whether this style (MMM with heavy medivacs) will actually work vs Zerg? Im still amazed why most terrans havent figured out yet that MMM is THE way to play TvZ.
It was a long time ago, back in the days of old.
Then people discovered that infestors were good, and included them in most army compositions. MMM sort of faded away when zergs included a bunch of AOE units in their army.
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I am a mid masters zerg and was running into this strategy more and more on ladder (this was probably 3-4 months ago). I have a smurf for every race and I decided to use an MKP build where u go 1 rax expo into a 1-1 combat shield 9 min timing attack while getting a 3rd behind it. This I believe was MLG Columbus but could be wrong. During I believe MLG Winter Arena finals it was quite simple, I only counted 4 siege tank volleys going off in the series vs drg. The tanks were worthless. This blew my mind and I decided to use MKP's 1 rax expo w/ timing push on ladder, but instead of getting tanks when I establish my third I just make moar marines. Your 3-3 finishes stupidly fast at around 14 mins I believe and the zerg cannot keep up. On my terran smurf I left every tvt and tvp and only played tvz. It is still high diamond and would definitely be masters if I did not leave all those but I would rather cut my hands off than play tvt, that is a different story. Anyways my win rate is 85-1 going marine medivac (no marauders). I never made 1 tank and on several maps made my 3rd a planetary but there is a point where u can keep making OC so you can nonstop mule. The goal with this style is to literally drop EVERYWHERE while also pushing with some army. What will happen is that your army will get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get destroyed, and then all of a sudden you have this one engagement where the zerg has spent so much on blings/infestors and runs out of them and all of a sudden you are left with basically a medivac per marine and then you have an unstoppable push where the zerg gets to a point where he is only rallying lings and 3-3 marines w/ medivacs can nom-nom on lings as long as he doesnt have a lot of surface area. The strategy is to never give up never surrender because you will have one push that dominates the zerg. A lot of people say "once the zerg has infestors and ultras out the bio gets destroyed" If you let the zerg get to that point then you arent dropping enough. If he does get to that point you have to pray that you can get good surface area and are quick on repairing your planetaries. Also, once ultras come out, they cannot deal with drop harass at all, ultras are only good in straight up fights. With this style my food count never goes up over 140-150 and that might sound terrible, but the moment you get that push that dominates the zerg you skyrocket to 200/200. Off of 3 bases you can make around 25 marines at a time w/ medivacs and if you are able to build up enough oribitals you are able to get insane production. I have not played around with marauders but unless ultras are out, you have to use them to tank bling hits and snipe infestors and being able to do that is a million times harder than it sounds, but Polt is a freaking boss at it. Just keep building medivacs, obviously the joke within the community is that marines are imba, but the reality is that medivacs are :D
Edit: now with 4 queen opener the 1-1 combat shield push outright kills zergs that are greedy and skip baneling nest or at least their 3rd is 99% guaranteed dead
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I really like the MMA banshee hellion opening into bio gives a fast third and quick upgrades but i don't think it is as difficult as people make it out to be its more about positioning and making sure your army is always spread when you are idol so you are not caught off guard. Then make sure you know where the zerg army is when you move out which means sending single marines in different directions taking the watch towers even sending a medivac to the zerg army always works well. Then spread your units and engage with small groups and watch as your cloud of medivacs heal through all the lings and fungul.
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I only think this is viable if you have very good micro. It is pretty macro intensive as well. You need to be able to mass up a new army back home and keep pressuring all the time. One really bad engagement/failed split and you are in pretty bad shape. Ive started to face this more and more, and it is very rare that I play against someone that is capable to play this style on my level (1k master). But I bet it is a fun and challenging style to play so gogo
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On June 12 2012 13:20 djdanny wrote:
I am a mid masters zerg and was running into this strategy more and more on ladder (this was probably 3-4 months ago). I have a smurf for every race and I decided to use an MKP build where u go 1 rax expo into a 1-1 combat shield 9 min timing attack while getting a 3rd behind it. This I believe was MLG Columbus but could be wrong. During I believe MLG Winter Arena finals it was quite simple, I only counted 4 siege tank volleys going off in the series vs drg. The tanks were worthless. This blew my mind and I decided to use MKP's 1 rax expo w/ timing push on ladder, but instead of getting tanks when I establish my third I just make moar marines. Your 3-3 finishes stupidly fast at around 14 mins I believe and the zerg cannot keep up. On my terran smurf I left every tvt and tvp and only played tvz. It is still high diamond and would definitely be masters if I did not leave all those but I would rather cut my hands off than play tvt, that is a different story. Anyways my win rate is 85-1 going marine medivac (no marauders). I never made 1 tank and on several maps made my 3rd a planetary but there is a point where u can keep making OC so you can nonstop mule. The goal with this style is to literally drop EVERYWHERE while also pushing with some army. What will happen is that your army will get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get crushed, get destroyed, and then all of a sudden you have this one engagement where the zerg has spent so much on blings/infestors and runs out of them and all of a sudden you are left with basically a medivac per marine and then you have an unstoppable push where the zerg gets to a point where he is only rallying lings and 3-3 marines w/ medivacs can nom-nom on lings as long as he doesnt have a lot of surface area. The strategy is to never give up never surrender because you will have one push that dominates the zerg. A lot of people say "once the zerg has infestors and ultras out the bio gets destroyed" If you let the zerg get to that point then you arent dropping enough. If he does get to that point you have to pray that you can get good surface area and are quick on repairing your planetaries. Also, once ultras come out, they cannot deal with drop harass at all, ultras are only good in straight up fights. With this style my food count never goes up over 140-150 and that might sound terrible, but the moment you get that push that dominates the zerg you skyrocket to 200/200. Off of 3 bases you can make around 25 marines at a time w/ medivacs and if you are able to build up enough oribitals you are able to get insane production. I have not played around with marauders but unless ultras are out, you have to use them to tank bling hits and snipe infestors and being able to do that is a million times harder than it sounds, but Polt is a freaking boss at it. Just keep building medivacs, obviously the joke within the community is that marines are imba, but the reality is that medivacs are :D
Edit: now with 4 queen opener the 1-1 combat shield push outright kills zergs that are greedy and skip baneling nest or at least their 3rd is 99% guaranteed dead
I don't even agree when people say that it is over against ultra/infestor. Ultralisk is the one tier 3 option that bio is amazingly good against and as for infestors I actually find them to be a huge liability against bio. Infestors might be really good against tank/marine that needs to push in leaps or against pure marine where you just die really fast but if you have a good marauder ratio and a lot of medivacs, and you split well, infestors are actually going to get zerg killed because they take up too much gas without doing nearly enough damage.
The only thing I do fear with bio is infestor / broodlord, but it is almost impossible to get to that point for zerg without getting completely destroyed during the transition if you are maintaining constant aggression.
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Bio is just effective because zerg metagame shifted into infestors. Back when WoL came out ling bling muta raped bio and that's how marine tank got popular. Obviously, nobody had the micro like they do now so probably they can deal better with ling bling muta, however I like this metagame shift into bio because it will make TvZ a bit more reactive.
I still think TvZ is broken but bio can maybe bring some fresh air to T.
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On June 13 2012 12:34 goFLiP wrote:
Bio is just effective because zerg metagame shifted into infestors. Back when WoL came out ling bling muta raped bio and that's how marine tank got popular. Obviously, nobody had the micro like they do now so probably they can deal better with ling bling muta, however I like this metagame shift into bio because it will make TvZ a bit more reactive.
I still think TvZ is broken but bio can maybe bring some fresh air to T.
I couldn't disagree with this more as during the time I went marine medi 70% of zergs were going ling bling muta. blings die in a fight then they have to rebuild. that means they cant keep making mutas. and ling muta vs marines is like trying to kill a banshee with a roach. When they have mutas stop dropping and only go for direct engagements and the mutas will just melt in direct engagments
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On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good.
Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
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On June 13 2012 12:59 goFLiP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good. Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
By the time he has ultras out your army comp will have a high amount of marauders as they usually survive most of the engagements if the zerg micros properly. You should have at least 3 techlab rax and be scanning his base at 15-16 min. If he doesn't have a spire building with his hive, then hes going ULTRAS. You should lift up 2 of your reactored rax, build techlabs on them and build new rax on the reactors. It's simply reacting to what the zerg does.Bio is the way to go right now and tvz is a fun and perfectly fine mu!
edit: dropping is actually not required. The reason t's dropped with tanks is so that they can move up their siege line and delay zerg tech, so that tanks are more effective. With bio you don't have that problem, because your forcing the zerg to invest in army instead of tech. You just keep on doing direct engagements at his 4th and 3rd and trading with him until he can't keep up with you. You should be looking at your army almost through out the whole game.( as early game you're powering and only doing a small attack.)
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On June 13 2012 12:59 goFLiP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 11:32 Iron_ wrote:
I had some success also with a 1 rax FE into bio and fast upgrades, but the popular 8:30 roach/ling/bling attack killed me everytime without fail. So I morphed my opening into the "Demuslim" attack (Illusion used it vs Stephano also at Redbull on Cloud Kingdom). Easiest thing to do is just go watch the redbull game of Illusion vs Stephano.
Basically, it is gas with the 2nd to last worker built (go all the way to 17 pop before OC), CC, factory, reactor on first rax, 2 more rax, 2 tech labs on raxes, early ebay with +1, stim as soon as tech lab finishes, combat shield around 30% stim done, make army of hellion/marine/marader, then go attack the third around 9:30 when stim hits.
In that game, Illusion defended the infamous (to me anyway) 8:30 attack and held his own. He lost, but overall it looked pretty good. Do you usually finish the zerg when you do the timing or do you just deny his third? I remember Illusion's game in Cloud Kingdom and he had the same problem I usually have and it's trying to trade units cost effectively until you have enough to end the game. It's hard to do drops against good zergs so it's hard to delay ultras, and once they come out it's basically gg.
That push usually just denies the third and makes the Zerg pump out a good many lings, which generally I feel puts us in a fairly even position (especially if you are building your own third in base around 10ish). The important thing, as with most Terran situations, is to keep pumping that macro, and the other key I am finding is that during this attack you need to be getting up your 3rd and setting up your infostructure (get starport down, reactor for starport on factory, and a couple more raxes).
If you can multitask all of that, it has worked out pretty well for me.
As the poster above me mentioned, the nice part is you do not need to drop. BUT I should also say you need to be running around in several groups. I usually try and send 2 medivacs to different spots (either walking or flying depending on where I am going). Then send the main army somewhere else. Keep clearing that creep.
Also, for anyone who is bad with micro, at least just put your mara's up front. Even if you can not split, if you can at least put the maras up front and the rines in back you should at least not have a horrible battle. This is a trick you should use in TvP as well. I am pretty good with unit control, so I get the maras in front, rines in back, then split out the maras into 2-3 groups, then split the rines out into as many groups as I have time for. Then A move everything forward. It's not perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than just rolling over and dying.
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The mobility with this style is extremely nice, and seeing as how as of now tanks are going to be pretty useless in the expansion, becoming good with this style might be worth our time.
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I`ve seen some players trying out some really early medivac timings, punishing zergs taking a fast 3rd, in worst case scenario, you just jump back into the medivacs and leave. u save alot of gas if u dont build tanks, so u will have alot more medivacs, which is not just good in general, but u can drop SO MUCH more and you are way more mobile without tanks, and with alot of medivacs, you can always save alot of units, until he gets good fungals. I dont play terran, but a friend of mine is way better with playing bio and gets some ghost in the mix to kill the festors.
worth a try imo.
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