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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 152

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
March 22 2013 22:58 GMT
#3021
@Probe
Yes! It will be very easy. Just one or two key changes and you're good to go.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Deleted User 299381
Profile Joined February 2013
18 Posts
March 22 2013 23:04 GMT
#3022
On March 23 2013 06:32 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Feng
yes. Change those cameras, and now you can use the keys the cameras used to be on for units/abilites! I'll be working on it in TheCore Archive.

@pagos
this will affect the zerg layout the least as far as the actual keys are concerned, but the creep spread combo is going to be pretty sweet


Which combo would that be that you are talking about? My main concern in Zerg is creep spreading isn't a devoted section, I usually remember late game. So whats new that will help Zerg and how?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-22 23:10:04
March 22 2013 23:09 GMT
#3023
On March 22 2013 08:51 Ninjury_J wrote:
Theyneq, I don't think it is a good idea to introduce actions that are not tournament legal into TheCore. That being said, your own choice for ladder is perfectly fine IMO. Your creep spread idea made me think of something:

I would appreciate if someone can please test this, as I will have no access to sc2 for a bit. Please go into a custom game and get a queen, spread a tumour. Then, in your hotkey file, make camera 7 recall to "ctrl + i". Make camera 7 create set to "alt+ i". Make spread creep "i". Then try to spread creep by:

1) click a new creep tumour and press alt I.
2) wait 15 seconds and move your camera.
3) press ctrl I.
4) keep pressing ctrl. Click the spreadable tumour(s).
5) release ctrl. press I and spread creep.
6) keep I pressed. Press alt.
7) repeat starting at 2.

In theory this doesn't conflict with anything I can think of.... Ctrl I (ability 2) is never used on zxmx because it is not a control group and alt I is not used because I is not a camera yet.

If someone or many people can try this and tell us if it is
A) easy or hard
B) conflicting with something else
C) useful (does it spread creep well or does center on current selection screw it up?)
D) do you see a better way to make this better


Edit: Its basically this, but there might be some slight tweaks.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
ProbeEtPylon
Profile Joined October 2010
168 Posts
March 22 2013 23:23 GMT
#3024
On March 23 2013 07:58 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Probe
Yes! It will be very easy. Just one or two key changes and you're good to go.


So...hurry up! I want to get the new layout as soon as possible. Thank you for your efforts.
beer
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-22 23:43:59
March 22 2013 23:24 GMT
#3025
Hahaha, going as fast as I can Probe

Done the first run for the Protoss Keys. Not error checked yet, but this should be very close:

TheCore Archive
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-23 01:26:09
March 23 2013 01:25 GMT
#3026
How about instead of 0.9.9 call it 0.7.0 or something. 0.9 is too early yet, I feel!

On another note, I don't quite follow what you're talking about with regards to additional abilities for zerg. You're essentially just making 2 unused camera buttons accessible! How would that open up other keys in any way other than those two inaccessible buttons (I and F)? Are you going to be changing around other camera keys? Can you just post the exact remapping you have in mind so we can test it without having to wait for another core release?

EDIT: it seems you're on top it already. I'll wait until the new version in a few hours?
Deleted User 299381
Profile Joined February 2013
18 Posts
March 23 2013 01:39 GMT
#3027
On March 23 2013 08:09 JaKaTaK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2013 08:51 Ninjury_J wrote:
Theyneq, I don't think it is a good idea to introduce actions that are not tournament legal into TheCore. That being said, your own choice for ladder is perfectly fine IMO. Your creep spread idea made me think of something:

I would appreciate if someone can please test this, as I will have no access to sc2 for a bit. Please go into a custom game and get a queen, spread a tumour. Then, in your hotkey file, make camera 7 recall to "ctrl + i". Make camera 7 create set to "alt+ i". Make spread creep "i". Then try to spread creep by:

1) click a new creep tumour and press alt I.
2) wait 15 seconds and move your camera.
3) press ctrl I.
4) keep pressing ctrl. Click the spreadable tumour(s).
5) release ctrl. press I and spread creep.
6) keep I pressed. Press alt.
7) repeat starting at 2.

In theory this doesn't conflict with anything I can think of.... Ctrl I (ability 2) is never used on zxmx because it is not a control group and alt I is not used because I is not a camera yet.

If someone or many people can try this and tell us if it is
A) easy or hard
B) conflicting with something else
C) useful (does it spread creep well or does center on current selection screw it up?)
D) do you see a better way to make this better


Edit: Its basically this, but there might be some slight tweaks.

I dont like this idea one bit...
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
March 23 2013 02:27 GMT
#3028
@Fengshaun
It doesn't open up new abilities for the zerg layouts. It does make the cameras more accessible though (like you mentioned).

@pagos
Can you elaborate?
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
GanDoc OckDorf
Profile Joined March 2013
3 Posts
March 23 2013 02:36 GMT
#3029
Hey hey, I wanted to congratulate FoxyMayhem and JaKaTaK on the grids that they have developed. At one time I was proud of my own, then I ran into a video on DarkGrid by FoxyMayhem; I was impressed with the presentation and the direction that he was going in. So I invented one similar to DarkGrid, I called it BrightGrid:D. Then I ran into the core...I have always wanted the shift and control buttons to be easily accessible, but was timid to try something like this. Well, I ended up following he same route anyways using the same principles. Good thing that there are brave people out there experimenting like this. JaKaTak, excellent presentation as well on the many videos I've seen I have been suggesting that people adopt theCore from the get go, and indicate the data that you base your conclusions on, simply because of the philosophy behind it.

I did have a question, as to how you were able to reposition items in the campaign (example: Fortified Bunker is no longer on the default "U"), to buttons of your choosing?
Deleted User 299381
Profile Joined February 2013
18 Posts
March 23 2013 02:46 GMT
#3030
On March 23 2013 11:27 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Fengshaun
It doesn't open up new abilities for the zerg layouts. It does make the cameras more accessible though (like you mentioned).

@pagos
Can you elaborate?


The biggest AND foremost problem is that this will only use one creep tumor only, no more. That, IMO, is a horrible thing and will stifle creep spread. 2, too many buttons. I could do the same process with 3 clicks and one hotkey. Very fast ones to be specific.
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
March 23 2013 03:05 GMT
#3031
@Pagos,

So I also didn't like how it only works for one. We are considering the following 2 changes:
1) use Ctrl shift to recall instead of alt. this means you can hotkey an area instead of one tumor.
2) make two cameras.
These together make you able to spread creep on two large areas.

I disagree that it uses too many buttons combined with macro, it uses less Time (if not actions) than clicking.

When you say "I could do the same thing with three clicks and a hotkey" what exactly do you mean? What hotkey and clips do you make?

Also, bear in mind that because these cameras are free, they do not need to be used for this purpose.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
fengshaun
Profile Joined April 2012
149 Posts
March 23 2013 03:28 GMT
#3032
On March 23 2013 11:27 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Fengshaun
It doesn't open up new abilities for the zerg layouts. It does make the cameras more accessible though (like you mentioned).


Alright, I'm following you on TheCore Archive and noticed that / is now the fourth ability. What happens to next and prev subgroup? (zerg still needs it for upgrade structure CG!
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
March 23 2013 03:32 GMT
#3033
Currently the idea is that next subgroup will be M5 and previous will be M4. The zerg, Terran and random layouts on the archive arent complete though.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Deleted User 299381
Profile Joined February 2013
18 Posts
March 23 2013 05:05 GMT
#3034
On March 23 2013 12:05 Ninjury_J wrote:
@Pagos,

So I also didn't like how it only works for one. We are considering the following 2 changes:
1) use Ctrl shift to recall instead of alt. this means you can hotkey an area instead of one tumor.
2) make two cameras.
These together make you able to spread creep on two large areas.

I disagree that it uses too many buttons combined with macro, it uses less Time (if not actions) than clicking.

When you say "I could do the same thing with three clicks and a hotkey" what exactly do you mean? What hotkey and clips do you make?

Also, bear in mind that because these cameras are free, they do not need to be used for this purpose.


Then if they are free cams leave them the way they are? Whats the difference then? And I mean I would click on the minimap once, click once to select the tumor, press H, then click again to plant another tumor. 3-1
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-23 13:06:41
March 23 2013 11:50 GMT
#3035
Which combo would that be that you are talking about? My main concern in Zerg is creep spreading isn't a devoted section, I usually remember late game. So whats new that will help Zerg and how?


I am not sure what you meant by this before. Did you mean that TheCore dosent have a creep spread fuction? Other than camera locations, do you have other solutions?

What do you currently use your free cameras for?

To address your previous post:

1) I believe that if implemented after macroing, (and even if not) this system will be faster, but more importantly, more consistent than mini map clicking.

2) The reason to move them, even if one was not going to use them for creep, is because they would be on the home row.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Smackzilla
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States539 Posts
March 23 2013 13:59 GMT
#3036
I realize this is a work in progress, so I apologize if I'm jumping the gun. Looking at the archive for the MMM group, I see that the MMM group currently has:

I = unload
/ = afterburner / stim
H = Heal

Looking at terran data and the key scores, shouldn't stim get the better key 'I' and unload go on '/'? I haven't seen data for afterburner but I wont be surprised if its usage is on par with unload
You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a f&%*ing challenge - Scroobius Pip
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-23 15:47:45
March 23 2013 14:12 GMT
#3037
@Smackzilla,

You may be right. I dont know, but I do know that Jak hasen't gotten to Terran yet (at least he was still on Protoss last night).
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Zick
Profile Joined March 2013
Norway4 Posts
March 23 2013 15:43 GMT
#3038
Hello! I have been using the core for a while now, and i love it.
Just want to note that M4/M5 is really good for next/prev subgroup. Didn't fancy them being camera's or CG.

Keep up the good work!
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
March 23 2013 15:48 GMT
#3039
Thanks for the feedback Zick I tend to agree with you. What race do you play?
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Zick
Profile Joined March 2013
Norway4 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-23 18:52:08
March 23 2013 17:22 GMT
#3040
@Ninjury_J,

I play P.
I might add that i don't like the idea of the thumb being used on 3 keys.
My thumb is always occupied on shift/Ctrl, or resting at shift for quick recall of base-cameras (drops, muta, oracle etc etc).
Also, when moving my army back and forth engaging, fighting and poking, i tend to make and add to CG's all the time. At this point i don't want my thumb going away from shift/ctrl to use an ability.

I find the ability keys in 0.6.2 are well placed and accessible, even tho / is a better key, it takes my thumb away from "resting position".

Sorry if my english isn't that good.
Again, great work!

EDIT: i see u have set / for basic building also, i will check it out and give u some feedback.
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