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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 153
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
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HerrPfotig
Germany39 Posts
im testing the Core for a month now (almost every day i played some sc2) and i found it to be much more convenient to hit the U,Z,T buttons with mit pinky finger. So my question is: Why is the ringfinger the more "efficient and ergonomic" use for these buttons. @Ninjury_J If the / button is used as an ability, why not use the pointerfinger? (lines up well with .-button [middlefinger], ,-button [ringfinger], M-button[pinkyfinger] EDIT: btw im a Terran player and i like to thank all of you who are working on that damn good keyboardlayout named The Core:D | ||
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Morsk
United States16 Posts
I wouldn't even know what kind of mouse to buy, if I wanted side buttons. Most small mice designed for fingertip grip don't have them. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
Imagine you never played TheCore and discovered it to find / was an ability. I suspect you would not even notice a problem moving from shift to / and back. After all, the other home keys are "loose" as well in the sense that we move the fingers on top of them quite frequently. In fact, moving the thumb a bit might be good for it so it doesn't cramp up. Further, we have made sure that all the abilities on / and Z will never need to be pressed in conjunction with shift. Also, the activities you mention, adding and creating control groups, never need to be done with / or Z, so you don't need to worry about repetitive keystrokes. It is true that initially it was thought that shift was used much more than other buttons, but it is probably safer to say it is "one of" the most used buttons. So, I suggest you think about it and the thumb as if they were just another button and finger. (and if there was no change, next subgroup would still be on it anyways). To clarify, / and Z are changed to build basic for T and P, and build advanced for Z. @Cursed Feanor As soon as Jak is done, he will release it, I'm sure! I know he is working hard on it, possibly as we speak. "0.9" will look exactly like 1.0, but without new vids and graphics. @ Herrpfotig U,Z,T... I really do not know which layout uses all these buttons. I would guess you don't use a QWERTY keyboard since you live in Germany? Can you please tell me what layout you are using and "translate" the keys you mentioned into QWERTY? I am not familiar enough with other keyboards. Please tell me what size you use too. The reason / is hit with the thumb is because it is easy and efficient, according to the tests the original developers did. using the index would make it actually a very uncomfortable and inefficient key for most hands. In-game, using the thumb provides many benefits for all races, including the accessibility to use different fingers for all abilities. @ Morsk If you do not want to use a mouse with buttons, the rebind will be very simple. I am 90% confident that all that will be required is changing one or two keys. I am not positive which ones yet. I am less confident in the following statement: it may be more efficient to learn a claw like grip, then to modify (Jak will explain exactly how) and keep using finger-style. Nevertheless, it will be a good and valid option. As for mice, I have no clue  .Hope this satisfies you guys. As I mentioned in this original post, I am somewhat new to this, and still learning the ropes. Thanks a billion for your patience. If there is anything else I can help with please let me know. Remember, we are still deliberating and have not made any definite decisions yet (that I know of)! All feedback is wonderful. | ||
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Rankith
United States78 Posts
I just find myself screwing up or taking too long to do these things and it costs my fights that I should really really be winning. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
I don't know of any custom games like that. I would set it up manually! All you need to do is write down on paper a list of things to do, like "Move army, storm, move army here, turn on void ray lasers, sentry force fields" Put it on your wall or another screen if you have one, in large letters. Then, load up a game against no opponent, and practice with one control group really slowly. As you eliminate hesitation, go faster. Then add a second control group. Etc. | ||
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Deleted User 299381
18 Posts
On March 24 2013 04:57 Rankith wrote: So the hotkey trainer in SC2 is great for learning building and production keys and I am quite good at those now using the core. I've played ~100 games with it now but still find myself hesitating on the control groups when microing my army. Is there anything anyone knows of that lets me setup my army groups, then has me do certain micro things? This is especially coming through when I get protoss (I play random) and end up with alot of casters in my army. I'm looking for something that lets me have my army, set the control groups and then for example says "Move army, storm, move army here, turn on void ray lasers, sentry force fields" etc. I just find myself screwing up or taking too long to do these things and it costs my fights that I should really really be winning. You COULD play a Micro Macro (or is it Macro Micro?) game through the arcade and be the microer. Its not the exact thing you want but its very close. @Ninjury_J I dont use my free cams at all, i have my 2 creep spreading queens on a hotkey and use them in the way an injecting queen is used in Vid 3 but I click H and then spread and I spread in 2 different directions my creep so I have 1 queen at the end of each creep spread to make it easier, I can spread using the queen on one side, the creep tumors there, then go to the other side and repeat. | ||
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Rankith
United States78 Posts
On March 24 2013 05:50 Ninjury_J wrote: @ Rankith, I don't know of any custom games like that. I would set it up manually! All you need to do is write down on paper a list of things to do, like "Move army, storm, move army here, turn on void ray lasers, sentry force fields" Put it on your wall or another screen if you have one, in large letters. Then, load up a game against no opponent, and practice with one control group really slowly. As you eliminate hesitation, go faster. Then add a second control group. Etc. The only problem with that is the setup time. I don't need the prompt so much as just the ability to have an army and set it up different ways and then fight even an ai. Maybe a "battle" building custom or something? | ||
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HerrPfotig
Germany39 Posts
Thanks for the swift reply. all keydescriptions are now conform with the US-layout I use the german TRM 0.6.3 with some minor modifications, mainly: / - hold position (toggle subgroups on mouse 4 and 5) Backspace - hold building because the former key Y interfered with building a techlab when the building is just finishing(it haltet building) and some rearranging of Raxx/Fact/Port building hotkeys to smoothen my armyproduction massabale units on I (Marines/Hellions) precise number of units either on J or K(siegetanks,Marauder,Ghost) the reasoning behind this is that the real limiting resource is gas Sorry i didnt think of the switch between Z and Y on my QWERTZ-keyboard. My mistake, the T button does not get used and with Z i meant the Y at the US keyboard layout. The questions in my above post refer to the visual aides in the OP. The / key was very good to use as linear key (next subgroup), but to use the thumb as an ability key my brain cant handle YET! :-) | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On March 23 2013 22:59 Smackzilla wrote: I realize this is a work in progress, so I apologize if I'm jumping the gun. Looking at the archive for the MMM group, I see that the MMM group currently has: I = unload / = afterburner / stim H = Heal Looking at terran data and the key scores, shouldn't stim get the better key 'I' and unload go on '/'? I haven't seen data for afterburner but I wont be surprised if its usage is on par with unload I think I figured out what's going on. Unload is definitely one of those things you want to be able to shift-queue so it can't be on '/'. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
even better than one, right? Anyways, I don't think we are in much disagreement, because the new cameras will in no way stop you from using a designated creep queen control group. Since you don't use the cams, it won't affect you until you do . @ Rankith, maybe set up a game full of your tech, and then just resume from replay? @ HerrPfotig, Z and U (on qwertz) are "easier" to press with the ring than with the pinkie according to the data used to develop The Core. Please understand the layout was created for "the average hand" and everyone is different. If you find certain buttons easier or harder to press, feel free to modify. Also, make sure you are tilting your keyboard. Once tilted, i personally find keys like Q and Z impossible to hit with my Pinkie. Edit: @ Smackzilla, that sounds about right. Afterburner and stim won't be shift qued (at least I don't think so), so that makes a lot of sense. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
SixtusTheFifth is our main campaign hotkeys guy. He's kind of awesome, and I don't know how he does everything that he does, but he's on the thread pretty often, you should send him a PM @Smack I WARNED YOU!!!  but seriously, the terran1.0 tab on the archive is just the protoss one rearranged because I had to stop right after setting up the format for what I was about to work on. I'll let you know when its ready to start testing For those still concerned about mouse buttons and camera changes: You will be able to play with TheCore 1.0 with or without mouse buttons, using those buttons for CGs or not, using any inject method you like, using any creep spread you like, chronoboost method etc. The only thing you will be "losing" is using the thumb for next subgroup. It will be either on your mouse, or pressed with your index finger depending on your preference Hope that clears things up a bit | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
I can no longer create the 0 hotkey control group, I can add to 0, and I can call that congrolgroup but I can't remake it. CTRL+SHIFT+0 is in the hotkeys, added correctly, yet in game it does nothing. If I accidentally bind something to 0 that should not be there, like a building, it is stuck for the rest of the game -.- | ||
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Rankith
United States78 Posts
On March 24 2013 08:32 VanGarde wrote: Okay I have a problem that I wonder if I am alone with. I use RRM, swedish keyboard. theCore ha worked perfectly for me except for one weird thing that happened after creating control groups were changed to CTRL+SHIFT and adding to groups was changed to CTRL. I can no longer create the 0 hotkey control group, I can add to 0, and I can call that congrolgroup but I can't remake it. CTRL+SHIFT+0 is in the hotkeys, added correctly, yet in game it does nothing. If I accidentally bind something to 0 that should not be there, like a building, it is stuck for the rest of the game -.- This is addressed on the front page, its a windows issue: This is a windows problem, not a SC2 problem. Look here for the way to fix it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893 | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:30 JaKaTaK wrote: For those still concerned about mouse buttons and camera changes: You will be able to play with TheCore 1.0 with or without mouse buttons, using those buttons for CGs or not, using any inject method you like, using any creep spread you like, chronoboost method etc. The only thing you will be "losing" is using the thumb for next subgroup. It will be either on your mouse, or pressed with your index finger depending on your preference Hope that clears things up a bit So, M5 is next subgroup, and / is now ability 4? If we don't use M5, what will be an alternate next subgroup? So far, the changes are: set camera 7/8 -> Ctrl+Shift+J/I recall camera 7/8 -> Ctrl+J/I next subgroup -> M5 or something on the keyboard (changed from /) ability 4 -> / (changed from H) that means H is now open! notes for zerg: transfuse is now ability 3 instead of 2, poop tumor is now ability 2 instead of 3. burrow is ability 3 (M) and unburrow is ability 1 (O) is that everything? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
/ is ability 3 for Zerg. I think burrow is on ability 4, and unburrow is on ability 3. My understanding is that this is so that unburrow, which was previously on ability 1, does not require a repetitive keystroke when combined with middle finger control groups. I don't think H is open, I am guessing it will get assigned either burrow or hold position... I am not sure which. | ||
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Pelirrojo
United States98 Posts
I can try rebinding set control group to something like ctrl+shift+s, and then recall it with "0" and it works fine... It seems like there must be a conflict or something with control+shift+0. The same thing seems to happen with PRM, as well as in older versions I still have on my PC. Maybe I screwed up some setting that isn't part of the core? | ||
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Borskey
160 Posts
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893 Basically, windows uses that keybind for something. You have to disable it in windows (see the link). It will then work fine in starcraft. | ||
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Pelirrojo
United States98 Posts
On March 24 2013 15:25 Borskey wrote: Pelirrojo http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893 Basically, windows uses that keybind for something. You have to disable it in windows (see the link). It will then work fine in starcraft. Ahhhh thank you thank you, got it. | ||
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