As a Zerg player I have some race specific issues with these keybinds, in addition with some other qualms that may cross racial boundaries.
First. How many people here instinctively place their fingers on ASDF? The vast majority of gamers I know, and trust me I asked before posting this (Myself included here) rest their fingers on WASD, which the majority of games use for movement. I understand that SC2 doesn't utilize wasd the way that other games do, however i find that my fingers only go to asdf when BOTH hands are on the keyboard and I'm typing, otherwise its simply WASD.
Onwards.
Creating a Spawning Pool, is extremely difficult to do first I must press v then z which is such an awkward motion no matter how you attempt to do it, you have to either remove your hand from the keyboard, or bend your pinky and thumb at such an angle to cause physical pain to your hand. Which I do not want.
Next. Maybe its just a Mac thing but in order to switch between hatcheries using caps lock you must press caps lock TWICE because SC2 only registers the act of activating caps lock as "caps lock" whilst deactivating caps lock is not registered as any sort of motion. With the current setup its a HUGE flaw for me, this causes me to miss injects frequently because I've got to press caps lock TEN times in order to inject all of my hatcheries which is a royal pain. Hardly efficient at all.
Perhaps I can change the screen locations so that TAB is the base camera, and the Shift + Tab save location is completely removed.
Also I find that the save locations aren't used very much as zerg, but maybe thats just my playstyle.
RamboJesus, the point is not that everyone instinctively places their fingers on ASDF, but that it's ergonomically efficient and lets you hit all the other hotkeys in a comfortable manner. "Reason over tradition."
I also am not sure how hitting V then Z is a problem. It's exactly the same as ASDF. Trying it now, I literally just move my fingers down half an inch. I already use V for advanced buildings in a standard layout, so hitting Z after is a simply matter of throwing the pinky down where it would naturally lie on the keyboard.
Maybe that is a Mac thing. Caps Lock counts for each hit on my PC.
Why are you using Caps for Hatchery's anyway? If its for the backspace method, change to the Darkgrid Camera Save method. It's much better.
And there is no case where using Camera save locations is bad. None. At all, though I will admit there's less for Zerg to need on a camera, besides bases and maybe creep/XelNaga Towers.
I do agree, using caps for backspace injects would be weird. However, with this system, (similar to Darkgrid) there is a different way of injecting that is much easier. Copy and Pasted from Darkgrid's thread,
"This is how it's done: Press and hold shift, press E, press and hold alt (while still holding shift), press Q, click mouse to inject, press W, click mouse to inject, Press D, click mouse to inject, release Alt and Shift."
The letters correspond to each of your base cameras. So pretty much you select queens, hit inject, hold shift, then rapidly click on a base, use the base cams to cycle to the next base (with camera saves).
Ah. Well I can see that, I'm sorry. I have fairly large hands too, I can go from "a" to the ' key from pinky to thumb, resting on asdf then going to zxcv cause its one key per finger. I can't imagine how you could be comfortable with wasd and not asdf, since asdf is spread out in comparison.
For those of you who want to get on the new layout right now with no instruction or artwork or name, just use the Spreadsheet and enter in the keys manually. JIOP is for right handed mouse users. WERG is for left handed mouse users. Everything you need is there. We'll be releasing as soon as we can. I will reiterate that i am spending 3-5 hours 7 days a week specifically on this layout. We're doing the best we can to release as soon as possible and we appreciate your patience.
The new layout will (after time) be solving hand size issues as well as race specific issues. If you use the new layout for your hand size or race and are still having problems, we would definitely appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
Also in the case of V and Z perhaps you have small fingers?
Thats not the problem, neither for me nor for others.
As u see, i can use my pinky or ringfinger for y, usually i use the ringfinger; that may be due to my handsize or simply cuz i never understood why i should use my pinky for letters instead of resting it on the shift key, in german u need a lot of shift :D In SC2 i guess. if u make a video we can probably help u why its not working for u.
On June 02 2012 02:00 Goldbullet wrote: I think it's a cool idea. Doesn't stephano use something like this?
Pretty much all pro gamers are rebinding some keys now (especially 9 and 0 but often times not 8) However, I know of few layouts like this available for everyone. I've also heard that stephano only uses 2 control groups for army. I can't confirm or deny any of this stuff.
TheCore, the new layout developed in conjunction with FoxyMayhem (creator of DarkGrid), is now released in beta! This layout goes far beyond anything I've ever seen in layouts, and improves on Chameleon in every way.
It may see changes as this is our first pulic beta. If you're okay with that, and want to take your control to the next level and reduce wrist strain, dive in!
On June 05 2012 02:23 Sheogorath wrote: How about binding CGs to the scroll? Seems useful for macro and I find it hard to believe zooming oututilizes it.
The issue with the scroll wheel is that it takes your finger off of a primary mouse button (which I feel is very inefficient) However, If one was gripping the mouse so that 3 fingers were used, this would be a possibility that would sacrifice no inefficiency but would require a "relearning" of mouse accuracy. It is a very interesting concept that I have been considering. Do you know anyone who has tried this?
On June 05 2012 02:23 Sheogorath wrote: How about binding CGs to the scroll? Seems useful for macro and I find it hard to believe zooming oututilizes it.
The issue with the scroll wheel is that it takes your finger off of a primary mouse button (which I feel is very inefficient) However, If one was gripping the mouse so that 3 fingers were used, this would be a possibility that would sacrifice no inefficiency but would require a "relearning" of mouse accuracy. It is a very interesting concept that I have been considering. Do you know anyone who has tried this?
Lots of people do it, but it requires Mouse Driver changes, which leaves it vulnerable to Tournament rules.
On June 05 2012 02:23 Sheogorath wrote: How about binding CGs to the scroll? Seems useful for macro and I find it hard to believe zooming oututilizes it.
The issue with the scroll wheel is that it takes your finger off of a primary mouse button (which I feel is very inefficient) However, If one was gripping the mouse so that 3 fingers were used, this would be a possibility that would sacrifice no inefficiency but would require a "relearning" of mouse accuracy. It is a very interesting concept that I have been considering. Do you know anyone who has tried this?
Lots of people do it, but it requires Mouse Driver changes, which leaves it vulnerable to Tournament rules.
Do you think it results in a loss of mouse accuracy or finger strain?
No finger strain in my experience, and I've been doing it since custom hotkeys came out. I use Scroll forward for main army and Scroll Back has been used for various things over time.
For mouse accuracy issues, it depends what the control groups are used for. I wouldn't suggest any usage where you want to go back and forth quickly between them. For example, spellcaster subgroups of main army would be a bad application. However, one as a main army, and the other as perhaps a group of stalkers or zerglings out on the map scouting and such would be good. Used in this way, the 'double click' action would be made easier with the mouse scroll, and the change of the camera location combined with the need to activate a spell or ability using the keyboard would provide enough of a timing window where complete mouse accuracy can be restored.
I guess what I'm thinking here is that mouse accuracy after activating either control group is fine, but switching back and forth frequently would have a very negative impact on mouse accuracy.
Holy shit PoYo! Make sure you PM me when you start playing in that tournament so I can cheer for you! :D
For future reference, the name of the layout from here on out is now Chameleon. "JaKaTaK Righty" was a shitty name. Hopefully one of the mods will notice my request and change the name of the thread. :D
I'm a gold level Terran player who just started learning this hotkey setup. I'm not using the Core as I mainly game on a laptop and that would obviously not work with the Core. It has only been about 15 games of 4v4s, 2v2s and eventually 1v1s and I am now mostly comfortable with the layout except for things like upgrades and the more obscure buildings and units. While my macro is not where it used to be when I played Standard, I can just feel that this setup is more efficient. I still need to get used to the tech lab/reactor keys, the combined rax, fact, port all on one and tabbing in between them. Also, I think that my multitasking skills just aren't good enough to use eight unit hotkeys, but I'm getting there.
Thanks for making this! I hope that I can use it to improve my mechanics, multitasking and get me into Platinum or even Diamond!
On June 15 2012 10:39 ZardiChar wrote: I'm a gold level Terran player who just started learning this hotkey setup. I'm not using the Core as I mainly game on a laptop and that would obviously not work with the Core. It has only been about 15 games of 4v4s, 2v2s and eventually 1v1s and I am now mostly comfortable with the layout except for things like upgrades and the more obscure buildings and units. While my macro is not where it used to be when I played Standard, I can just feel that this setup is more efficient. I still need to get used to the tech lab/reactor keys, the combined rax, fact, port all on one and tabbing in between them. Also, I think that my multitasking skills just aren't good enough to use eight unit hotkeys, but I'm getting there.
Thanks for making this! I hope that I can use it to improve my mechanics, multitasking and get me into Platinum or even Diamond!
EPT
