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On August 10 2012 00:28 Karnul wrote:
Guess that could be a work around, but that doesn't sound optimal because most of the time you will have a lot of units or buildings selected via the command groups. Or maybe I don't understand what the phrase "layered cameras" means. Was that phrase created just because the hotkey is an "alt+whatever" key combo or is there a usage technique I don't understand that makes "alt=center on selection" not interfere with setting camera locations. I'm wondering if I missed some technique tied to using layered cameras or if setting "center on selection" to alt was a quick change that was an oversight right before work was switched over to TheCore.
Did u actually tested it ingame?
There are 2 groups of camera hotkeys.
1)6 cameras which u set with alt+key and recall witch ctrl+key - they are mostly used as a base cameras, hence "center on selection" is used. You can freely bypass it with aforementioned shift-click method if you want.
2)2 "free look" cameras on "1" and "tab" keys, which u can set with shift+1/tab and recall by just pressing them (1 or tab)
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I see. The explanation that there are two groups with separate usage techniques, and that one was meant to be for base cams with buildings selected, cleared it up. Thanks!
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When Heart of the Swam comes out, are you going to make a new layout?
Also, if you do, will you support this layout as well as The Core (I play on a laptop, so I can't use the Core)
Cheers!
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Yes! I will be updating both layouts for HotS and probably doing a big overhaul to Chameleon to take advantage of the things I learned by doing TheCore project. I am very excited for HotS to come out and will do everything I can to get my hands on the beta :D
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Why do you force me to choose between two awesome layouts?
Great job on both of these! Helped me alot!
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np man, but if i can put my 2 cents in. Go for TheCore, once you've learned TheCore, everything else seems like a waste of time 
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On August 16 2012 11:03 JaKaTaK wrote:np man, but if i can put my 2 cents in. Go for TheCore, once you've learned TheCore, everything else seems like a waste of time
Undermining your own past work does not seem like a smart move.
Chameleon and TheCore are totally different and they both have pros and cons.
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@Czar
I disagree. But I can understand your point of view.
I'll definitely be updating Chameleon for HotS etc. But TheCore does everything Chameleon does, but faster. The only advantage Chameleon has is that it is easier to learn, IMO.
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if i don;t preffer the core, is this a better layout to use or darkgrid? Foxy has suggeseted darkgrid as a definite choice over chameleon.
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Foxy will back his layout, and I will back mine. Its where we disagree. Its a matter of personal preference.
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On September 07 2012 14:34 JaKaTaK wrote:
Foxy will back his layout, and I will back mine. Its where we disagree. Its a matter of personal preference.
he pointed out out there were flaws with this layout such as the your hand positioning witht the keys.
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Right, but, I could spend my time arguing why I think Chameleon is superior, or I could spend it making TheCore better, and helping people improve at Sc2. Its just not worth my time.
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On September 08 2012 06:49 JaKaTaK wrote:
Right, but, I could spend my time arguing why I think Chameleon is superior, or I could spend it making TheCore better, and helping people improve at Sc2. Its just not worth my time.
It's called a disucussion. Please don't put this on something else...
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On September 07 2012 07:39 j.k.l wrote:
if i don;t preffer the core, is this a better layout to use or darkgrid? Foxy has suggeseted darkgrid as a definite choice over chameleon.
Over the past week or so I tried out DarkGrid, Chameleon and TheCore. TheCore I couldn't make work because it has a hard requirement of removing keys from the keyboard, but between the other two I went with Chameleon becuse the building and ability keys felt smoother and a bit more compact, aside from having Attack on A as opposed to Q for DarkGrid. I just switched a couple things around like having tab in the traditional role instead of spacebar (habit from standard mostly) and the camera keys are Ctrl to set and Alt to use as I feel Alt with the thumb + Q is faster than Ctrl+Q and I use cameras more frequently than I set them.
@JaKaTaK: while I understand your efforts are focused on TheCore now, are you open to suggestions/contributions regarding Chameleon? I feel there are a few things that could be improved/polished without deviating from the base concepts. If so I'd like to help.
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I'll be doing a big update for HotS, that will incorporate some of the things we learned with TheCore. For now, there is too much work to do on TheCore, and I'm already pressed for time, so I won't be updating.
@jkl
I should have used the word discussion. I apologize for my poor choice of words. However, I'm not going to attempt to convince you that Chameleon is better. I think the best method is to try both and pick the one you like best 
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Thanks JaKaTaK ! This layout got me into master league. :D
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Glad to be of assistance :D
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On September 07 2012 07:39 j.k.l wrote:
if i don;t preffer the core, is this a better layout to use or darkgrid? Foxy has suggested darkgrid as a definite choice over chameleon.
There is no doubt that layered camera solution of Chameleon is vastly superior to one used in Darkgrid - less keys used, more convenience.
Which layout is better?
For me (100% personal preference) TheCore, Chameleon and Darkgrid are terribly bad in one aspect - home row fingers placement. Sticking 4 fingers closely together is uncomfortable, unnatural, counter intuitive, inefficient and plainly bad from my standpoint and experience using computer keyboard. It works against almost any habits you could pick up when playing FPS games, and I like FPS games. A lot.
My solution(right handed):
- Keep that pinkie on shift-ctrl and use it with conjunction with cameras assigning/recalling and control groups assigning;
- ring finger for macro mechanics (pylons, depots, overlords, chronoboosts, mules) and cameras;
- middle finger for workers and active skills like stim or blink;
- index finger for 2 macro control groups ("town halls" and upgrades in one group; other production facilities in other) and other control groups like main army, harrass or specialized units like casters.
- thumb on space (cycling through unit/building types in control group) and using alt to assign cameras.
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What good players use this man
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On September 15 2012 15:43 John Madden wrote:
What good players use this man
Not 100% sure what you mean by "good". But infinity seven's sanddbox is learning TheCore right now, which is vastly superior, as are multiple masters and grand masters. And I can't remember exactly which tournament it was, but someone posted on this thread that they qualified for a European tournament with Chameleon.
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EPT
