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[G] TheCore Lite - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 26

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 07:08:10
September 29 2012 06:59 GMT
#501
You'll notice a distinct lack of "add unit to control group", "create control group", "unit received qued orders" etc. If I recall correctly, this is because we cannot pull that data from the replay file. Instead, we created a heat map from a player playing a dozen or so games. The result: shift was the most used key. Yet, in Chameleon and Darkgrid, shift is not a rest key! That huge element is fixed in TheCore.

Also, the fourth most used ability "build basic" is on a non-rest key because it creates faster combinations. We looked at many ways to create faster, more ergonomic combos that weren't done for Darkgrid or Chameleon. Each key is not an island, how they combo together to create a flow is vital. Shaving a a 4th of a second off a combo done 50 times in a game gives a player 12.5 more seconds in the same time as an enemy. 12 seconds, at 200 APM is 40 more actions. Do that for enough, even infrequent combos, and the pro gives himself hundred(s?) of potential actions in the same time frame.

We never claim that hotkey speed will be a large component to the outcome of a game. Even if it is, it's a very hard thing to measure.

And yes, you're right, learning to make better decisions in starcraft 2 will probably always be more important. I've personally felt that good hotkey layouts (and the thought that goes into refining control group assignments and such) help me make better, faster decisions. There's more to it that just the mechanical accessibility.

So: should a pro absolutely use this? We do not have the data to say. But if they want to, it will (probably) improve that part of their game. And hopefully, for the cost of 40-60 games, give them a mechanical edge they didn't have before.
Czarnodziej
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-08 16:34:26
October 08 2012 16:33 GMT
#502
On September 29 2012 15:59 FoxyMayhem wrote:
The result: shift was the most used key. Yet, in Chameleon and Darkgrid, shift is not a rest key! That huge element is fixed in TheCore.

Makes me wonder why it required a change of the whole layout to realize that finger resting on shift is the way to go.
RunnerMeep
Profile Joined May 2011
United States79 Posts
October 11 2012 18:43 GMT
#503
Please update for HOTS! ^.^
SJSU!
3rysco
Profile Joined April 2011
United States3 Posts
November 11 2012 06:30 GMT
#504
I have been using this layout for a couple months now. It's very efficient. I have changed a couple things to fit my personal style. I use mouse side buttons for base camera's. Base 1=Mouse Side 1, Base 2=Mouse Side 2, Base 3=Shift+Mouse Side 1, Base 4=shift+Mouse Side 2, Base 5=Cntrl+mouse side 1, Base 6=Cntrl+mouse side 2. Once I got use to using the mouse buttons for base cams, my game went from diamond to masters. Another alteration I made was flipping the c and v for build and advanced build. It just made more sense to me. This layout really makes it easier to micro tanks/ghosts/ravens. I had a lot of trouble with this before. Great work on this layout, it has helped me tremendously. Thanks for the effort put into this =D.
enanoretozon
Profile Joined March 2012
Panama57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-26 22:22:06
November 26 2012 20:57 GMT
#505
So I finally got a beta key, thanks IEM!, and I updated my Chameleon variant for HOTS here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ivq9trvwpkf7lz/TurboNoob Chameleon HOTS.SC2Hotkeys

My differences from the stock Chameleon:
* Camera keys are set with Ctrl+ QWASZX1{spacebar}. They are recalled with Alt except for the spacebar and the 1 camera which are recalled with just the key. The rationale for this is that one recalls cameras more often than one sets them and I find it easier to switch around with Alt with my thumb than with Ctrl.
* Tab is used to cycle between unit subgroups instead of spacebar. I'm just too used to Tab in this role. My spacebar is my rally camera.
* Capslock is the cancel key in addition to Esc.

Edit: I can update the stock Chameleon for HOTS as well, if anyone wants it.


JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
November 26 2012 21:00 GMT
#506
Thanks for the HotS update. I'll have the Chameleon 2.0 version ready for download just before HotS full release date!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Enoki
Profile Joined December 2012
11 Posts
December 14 2012 22:53 GMT
#507
I just want to thank you JaKaTaK for this layout <3. It was a lot of work and it helped me really much. I started playing 2-3 months ago and playing ladder 1 month ago. After understanding your hotkeys positioning i felt very bad because in my very first layout i had to move my hand to the "7" to do some upgrades or really pressed "L" to lift my buildings :D I know u won't do much more about this because The Core is your absolute masterpiece but I'm pretty happy with this one too =)

Thank you again for putting all this effort into it.

Enoki
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
December 15 2012 20:05 GMT
#508
Thanks so much Enoki. And don't worry, I haven't forgotten about Chameleon. I just want to do one big update for HotS so that way I don't have to maintain it like crazy through all of the changes.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Enoki
Profile Joined December 2012
11 Posts
December 22 2012 18:10 GMT
#509
That's nice to hear and fully understandable I feel pretty confident with Terran now. Time to try some Zerg. But with this layout it can't go wrong hehe.

Watched your stream 2 or 3 weeks ago, i guess. Your hair was longer than in the TheCore video :D
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
December 22 2012 18:58 GMT
#510
Thanks Enoki
I'm not cutting my hair for the whole project (at least till May 1st) so it'll be even longer.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Karnul
Profile Joined January 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 05:19:13
January 17 2013 03:20 GMT
#511
It sounds like the realization that Shift is one of the most used keys and it isn't a rest position is one of the biggest innovations from Chameleon to TheCore. When Chameleon is updated, do you think you will change the resting position of the hand (fingers' rest keys) and therefore change the general layout of everything (the relative position of control groups, ability keys, etc.)?

JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 17 2013 15:51 GMT
#512
That's a good question, one that I'm not 100% sure of yet. I may make the resting position Shift, A, W, D, Space. Or maybe Shift, Q, W, D, Space. But Chameleon will remain a layout that is pretty solid, but not 100% efficient like TheCore, and easy to learn. I think those are the main principles that we will keep when developing 2.0.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Enoki
Profile Joined December 2012
11 Posts
January 31 2013 20:34 GMT
#513
Hmm.. How do you use Tab, 1 and "c" and "v" as camera hotkeys efficiently ? At the beginning i use Tab for the ramp or the place where i build my FFE. But later on I kinda only use "Q,W,A S" as camera hotkeys. I will try to use 1 tomorrow as a chronocam like you've written already, but i have no clue how to use "c" and "v" well.
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 31 2013 20:47 GMT
#514
I only use 2 free cams. 1 for rally/ramp and 1 for chrono. Late game I'll have 2 for chrono. I think in the HotS edition of Chameleon there will only be 2 free cams and 6 base cams.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Morsk
Profile Joined January 2013
United States16 Posts
January 31 2013 21:02 GMT
#515
The version I downloaded had QW, AS, and ZX as cameras, not the CV in the picture. I figured this was because you move your whole hand while injecting, with 2 fingers on Shift and Ctrl when injecting, and use the other 2 fingers for QWASZX ?
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
January 31 2013 21:13 GMT
#516
@Morsk
Yes, and I haven't looked at Chameleon for a long time so I'm not sure what the most updated version is. The way you described injecting is correct
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
March 04 2013 21:32 GMT
#517
If you like Chameleon, we're looking for help on the next major guide. Please answer this poll if you play Magic: The Gathering and Starcraft 2:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=401242

and leave any ideas/theories in the comments.

We're trying put together a comprehensive guide on race selection and this data will help us out a lot.

Thanks

Chameleon 2.0 is on it's way, get ready
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
March 04 2013 23:12 GMT
#518
Yay! I'm so glad you're still keeping an eye on this, even while there's so much to take care of with TheCore. Chameleon is a godsend for people with laptops (though I do hope to get a desktop when I go to college next year and start using TheCore ).

Also, *its
jjakji fan
Enoki
Profile Joined December 2012
11 Posts
March 09 2013 18:56 GMT
#519
Yeaah =) Chameleon 2.0 . I don't know Magic : The Gathering to my shame :S
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-11 19:29:41
March 11 2013 15:33 GMT
#520
Working on Chameleon 2.0 now!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdDlkbF9SWEZMN05rdUdaZ1QtcDBGN3c&usp=sharing
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
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