EPTAs a Zerg player it's gotten to the point where you can pretty much win every zvp if you feel like it by using one of Tang's builds cause no Protoss plays safely in the first 730 mins.
[G] LiquidZenio's ZvP All-In: 3 Hatch Ling/Bane - Page 7
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
As a Zerg player it's gotten to the point where you can pretty much win every zvp if you feel like it by using one of Tang's builds cause no Protoss plays safely in the first 730 mins. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On May 08 2012 17:52 BriTadeb wrote: It is very funny to see how some people react when you make a new guide (all in l2p ...). However when someone makes a guide for 10gate zealot+1, he is congratulated... Very sad. Anyway, why do you want to do this on Ohana and not on shakuras ? I never see players do the Gateway/Forge/Cyber wall in at the top of Ohana like they do on Shakuras, they usually use a Pylon or a Zealot as part of the wall. | ||
|
PieTaster
52 Posts
| ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On May 29 2012 04:09 PieTaster wrote: How do you adjust this if the protoss walls off with forge gateway and cyber? Sorry for the delayed response. On maps that can be walled with forge/gate/cyber like Shakuras, you generally wouldn't do a build like this. It's not impossible to break through the forge first (see the game of naniwa) but it just gives them more time to get sentries out. | ||
|
DarKcS
Australia1237 Posts
| ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On June 08 2012 18:40 DarKcS wrote: So...easily scoutable for Toss above diamond league. Guess I won't really be trying this. How do you figure it's easily scoutable? Did you watch any of the replays? | ||
|
InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On June 09 2012 00:12 TangSC wrote: How do you figure it's easily scoutable? Did you watch any of the replays? I've heard protoss say that any sort of early aggression is "easily scoutable". Never really understood it myself, seeing as the zerg should be putting forth an effort not to get scouted. I'm having success with this build against masters players as well as diamond, so his point really is moot. | ||
|
althaz
Australia1001 Posts
I use this Zenio build when I get bored of Roaching players to death and it works quite well because most players don't scout it. However vs the 1-gate pressure in Jangbi's build I feel like it'll be impossible for him not to scout you fairly early on (he'll might be fighting your lings when speed finishes). On the other hand once speed finishes all of his units that are out on the map should die (he won't even have +1 just zeal/stalk) and it's hard for Toss to definitively say what is coming. I'm curious as both a Z and (bad) P player what would happen here. | ||
|
Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On July 16 2012 19:59 althaz wrote: Has anybody tried this vs the Jangbi build where you chrono out 2 zealots and 5 stalkers (Toss'll have 2 zeals and 3-4 stalkers out when you get to his base if he doesn't deviate from his build at all, but could have 2 zeals, 2 stalkers and 2 sentries if he scouts it coming if he went nexus 1st)? I use this Zenio build when I get bored of Roaching players to death and it works quite well because most players don't scout it. However vs the 1-gate pressure in Jangbi's build I feel like it'll be impossible for him not to scout you fairly early on (he'll might be fighting your lings when speed finishes). On the other hand once speed finishes all of his units that are out on the map should die (he won't even have +1 just zeal/stalk) and it's hard for Toss to definitively say what is coming. I'm curious as both a Z and (bad) P player what would happen here. Well, the best way for protoss to scout it is to boost two zealots and send them straight into the zerg base to count drones (or zerglings). If you move out with the first two zealots, you should always see it coming (by either getting to his base and seeing no drones, or by getting caught by 10 zerglings which he shouldn't have) and that'll give you time to start boosting sentries, adding cannons, and reinforcing your wall. If you wait for more units before poking you are going to die. Every unit outside your base is 100% dead, and staying on one gas usually means fewer sentries. | ||
|
Belial88
United States5217 Posts
| ||
|
TsGBruzze
Sweden1190 Posts
| ||
|
Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
The zealots arrive in time for you to start building 4 new cannons, and if those finish before he gets through the wall you will hold. I suppose you may have one fewer sentry, but you start making those zealots before the core completes. Many people go zealot zealot stalker anyway, but they don't immediately scout with the zealots. The alternative is being dead. I do this build (and a similar 3 hatch roach/ling all-in that works on the same principle) regularly, and no one defends it blindly. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 17 2012 03:11 Oboeman wrote: As far as I know, a double zealot poke is the only reliable way to scout it. Maybe you can send a zealot and a probe into the natural to try to get one of them into the main to check the gas, but I'm pretty sure the zerg can deny that with his queen and 4 lings. The zealots arrive in time for you to start building 4 new cannons, and if those finish before he gets through the wall you will hold. I suppose you may have one fewer sentry, but you start making those zealots before the core completes. Many people go zealot zealot stalker anyway, but they don't immediately scout with the zealots. The alternative is being dead. I do this build (and a similar 3 hatch roach/ling all-in that works on the same principle) regularly, and no one defends it blindly. Yeah Naniwa did the double zealot poke, and Zenio was careful not to reveal any of his speedlings until after the zealots made it across the map. His bust was still successful, zealots make a slow scout. | ||
|
Hiflon
Denmark22 Posts
I have a single question though. Why don't you cancel the third hatch when the probe scouted it for the extra 300 minerals? | ||
|
Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On July 23 2012 16:51 Hiflon wrote: Great guide! I have a single question though. Why don't you cancel the third hatch when the probe scouted it for the extra 300 minerals? It is providing larva. You have 3 hatches and one queen, and that's about the right amount of larva for your drone count. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On July 23 2012 16:51 Hiflon wrote: Great guide! I have a single question though. Why don't you cancel the third hatch when the probe scouted it for the extra 300 minerals? You can't really stop his probe from scouting into the third again. Also in some scenarios the Protoss will move zealots across the map, and you can let them go straight to your third while you bypass them with your lings and go right for his expansion. | ||
|
HoMM
Estonia636 Posts
but how you are supposed to actually scout this coming, as the 3hatcheries and lings make everything seem really unsuspicious? (I remember even Naniwa fell for it so well in that game) Thanks | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On August 10 2012 09:53 HoMM wrote: I have a question about this build from a PvZ point of view, you mentioned that a protoss player needs to scout the build coming to defend or he will die.. but how you are supposed to actually scout this coming, as the 3hatcheries and lings make everything seem really unsuspicious? (I remember even Naniwa fell for it so well in that game) Thanks If you can hide a probe early, you can scout with that, but usually you'll have to send either 2 zealots or zealot/stalker to the third, you basically have to force him to reveal Zergling speed by around 6:45, which gives you time to cut probes, chronoboost sentries, and reinforce your wall with additional cannons/pylons. Zenio managed to bypass Naniwa's Zealots as they moved across the map, and it's really important that those Zealots scout the speedlings. | ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
| ||
|
Acquire
United States6 Posts
"Sleet" NA server. | ||
| ||
