To be frank sir, no one cares that your friend did this before him.(if that is even true at all) The reason it is named after him is because he popularized it on the pro level

Northern_iight

Canada363 Posts

August 10 2012 19:54 GMT

#142

pretty good all-in. protoss getting lazy these days with scouting. Protoss doesn't even make the effort to scout the main for gas anymore. Many builds on later right now revolves around countering stephano style. This is a very handy build to learn. Esspecially for tournaments.

So many stalker/zealot first builds are being used right now. If they don't build a sentry it's nearly impossible to hold.

Rasper

United Kingdom25 Posts

August 10 2012 21:19 GMT

#143

On August 11 2012 04:54 Northern_iight wrote:
pretty good all-in. protoss getting lazy these days with scouting. Protoss doesn't even make the effort to scout the main for gas anymore. Many builds on later right now revolves around countering stephano style. This is a very handy build to learn. Esspecially for tournaments.

So many stalker/zealot first builds are being used right now. If they don't build a sentry it's nearly impossible to hold.

Yep, I do a variation of this on 2 hatch and I must be around 90% win rate vs FFE at high plat. (playing some diamond toss) Majority of protoss I play don't even bother to scout if I have a 3rd!

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

August 11 2012 14:23 GMT

#144

On August 11 2012 04:12 Acquire wrote:
My friend has been doing this for months before him. . . . .

"Sleet" NA server.

Hey Acquire, didn't mean to insult "Sleet" - it may well have he who first did this 3-hatch bust. I doubt that Zenio saw his replay and copied him though, and it's fair to assume Zenio was the first to execute this build at the pro level.

HelloSon

United States456 Posts

August 16 2012 22:34 GMT

#145

One thing I've noticed is that lately, I've been seeing P not using a core as part of their wall in order to prevent it from getting focused down. This makes this build much stronger since you can simply run by mass lings with speed.

GenesisX

Canada4267 Posts

August 16 2012 22:59 GMT

#146

works like a charm :p but its hard if protoss goes sentry after zealot rather than stalker

HelloSon

United States456 Posts

August 16 2012 23:35 GMT

#147

On August 17 2012 07:59 GenesisX wrote:
works like a charm :p but its hard if protoss goes sentry after zealot rather than stalker

One trick I've picked up is you can try to sacc your overlord to lure the sentry.

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

August 18 2012 15:25 GMT

#148

On August 17 2012 07:34 HelloSon wrote:
One thing I've noticed is that lately, I've been seeing P not using a core as part of their wall in order to prevent it from getting focused down. This makes this build much stronger since you can simply run by mass lings with speed.

Those games are always so sweet, when the opponent doesn't completely wall-in so you just run by with speedlings. It used to be that on maps like Shakuras, Protoss wall the top of the ramp with 3 large buildings (gate/core/forge) but nowadays, they often use a pylon/zealot or no wall at all. This build is becoming more effective as Protoss go greedier.

snively

United States1159 Posts

August 18 2012 15:45 GMT

#149

On August 17 2012 08:35 HelloSon wrote:

Show nested quote +

One trick I've picked up is you can try to sacc your overlord to lure the sentry.

dear lord ive fallen for this trick at least 3 times vs. baneling busts

you would think i would have learned by now... but i never do x_x

TiDragOnflY

Netherlands130 Posts

August 18 2012 15:55 GMT

#150

Tang you are awesome for making all these guides. thank you for being a great help to the community and i hope you carry on with your good work.

shadogi

United States194 Posts

August 18 2012 20:24 GMT

#151

On August 17 2012 08:35 HelloSon wrote:

Show nested quote +

One trick I've picked up is you can try to sacc your overlord to lure the sentry.

You clearly have never heard of the Destiny Retard Magnet:

On August 11 2012 06:19 Rasper wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yep, I do a variation of this on 2 hatch and I must be around 90% win rate vs FFE at high plat. (playing some diamond toss) Majority of protoss I play don't even bother to scout if I have a 3rd!

In rewatching many of my ZvP games, I've noticed that rarely do Protoss players ever check for the third unless they plan to cannon it, which you can stop if you chase the initial probe with your lings and watch the front of their base.

Salivanth

Australia1071 Posts

August 19 2012 02:41 GMT

#152

I am ashamed of my former race. Not walling off? Not scouting the third? What the hell, Protoss? What the hell? Not walling off isn't even being greedy to attempt to seize an advantage, it doesn't even improve your timings by any significant amount, and any decent Zerg will scout the wall or lack thereof. Hell, not scouting for the third doesn't affect your build AT ALL. That's just straight-up laziness. Even in Plat I always, always did those two things :/

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

August 19 2012 12:33 GMT

#153

On August 17 2012 08:35 HelloSon wrote:

Show nested quote +

One trick I've picked up is you can try to sacc your overlord to lure the sentry.

lol! I don't know why I don't do that against players who go sentry-first. Good trick.

kiklion

99 Posts

August 19 2012 14:51 GMT

#154

I must say I have seen great success with this build as a diamond player. I was playing something similar to this but I would get 2 queens and 3 hatches, decent saturation and a ton of lings + banelings and hit much later / delay their third. Rather than run up a ramp and lose half my forces to forcefields because my attack hit later, I would sit outside their natural and delay the third/threaten a run by. It was much less effective.

Using this I have won every match that they went FFE I believe. It can even work well against top of the ramp gateway openers. Use the original blings to bust down the pylon or the zealot and stream lings in. Lings vs zealots aren't bad if they don't have +1 and you have speed because they won't be able to kite well between attacks. Worst case you run circles around them and dart in to kill a few probes and keep running.

734pot

Australia294 Posts

August 19 2012 16:14 GMT

#155

I've been doing a variation that gets ~50 more gas so i have enough banelings to kill the forge;

Second gas when i start speed (replace drone)
Next 50 gas > Take one drone off the first gas and build baneling nest with it (replace drone)
2 drones onto the second gas giving you 2 geysers with 2 drones on each.

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

August 19 2012 22:52 GMT

#156

On August 20 2012 01:14 734pot wrote:
I've been doing a variation that gets ~50 more gas so i have enough banelings to kill the forge;

Second gas when i start speed (replace drone)
Next 50 gas > Take one drone off the first gas and build baneling nest with it (replace drone)
2 drones onto the second gas giving you 2 geysers with 2 drones on each.

Yeah I've been debating taking a 2nd gas or cancelling the third base. Will have to study some more pro games using this or similar styles.

pyrostat

Korea (South)70 Posts

August 19 2012 22:58 GMT

#157

currently 80% win rate

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

August 20 2012 15:53 GMT

#158

On August 19 2012 23:51 kiklion wrote:
I must say I have seen great success with this build as a diamond player. I was playing something similar to this but I would get 2 queens and 3 hatches, decent saturation and a ton of lings + banelings and hit much later / delay their third. Rather than run up a ramp and lose half my forces to forcefields because my attack hit later, I would sit outside their natural and delay the third/threaten a run by. It was much less effective.

Yeah I would argue the earlier you can bust (ie. before warpgate) the better. The problem with droning more and getting 2 queens is if they do a 7-8gate all-in, you're going to be hard pressed to hold it with only ling/bling.