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Laffs
Canada25 Posts
i too play zerg and i feel zerg isn't made for all ins. way too less affective imo then terran/toss all ins. No way! Zerg has some of the strongest pushes because they have to sacrifice money and larva to do strong pushes! Doing that a lot and making a big push is like the epitome of an all-in haha. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On September 22 2012 02:06 Laffs wrote: No way! Zerg has some of the strongest pushes because they have to sacrifice money and larva to do strong pushes! Doing that a lot and making a big push is like the epitome of an all-in haha. Everyone has a different opinion of how a race "should" be played, I don't really think there's a right or wrong answer! You can be successful with a wide range of styles/builds; I think part of the beauty of SC2 is this depth and variety. | ||
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shadogi
United States194 Posts
On October 10 2012 06:37 TangSC wrote: Everyone has a different opinion of how a race "should" be played, I don't really think there's a right or wrong answer! You can be successful with a wide range of styles/builds; I think part of the beauty of SC2 is this depth and variety. Out of curiosity, Tang, how do you feel this all in compares to the very similar roach bust that hits around 7:40? It seems to me that having the roaches allows for more use of your "expensive" units as opposed to just suiciding banelings. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On October 10 2012 10:21 shadogi wrote: Out of curiosity, Tang, how do you feel this all in compares to the very similar roach bust that hits around 7:40? It seems to me that having the roaches allows for more use of your "expensive" units as opposed to just suiciding banelings. I'm not too familiar with the build actually, but I know when I do Roach/Ling timings the most dreaded scenario is my opponent gets his first Voidray out before I snipe the pylon powering the Stargate. I think that first Voidray is very likely completed by the time the Roaches arrive at 7:40. What has been your experience with that timing? | ||
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shadogi
United States194 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:39 TangSC wrote: I'm not too familiar with the build actually, but I know when I do Roach/Ling timings the most dreaded scenario is my opponent gets his first Voidray out before I snipe the pylon powering the Stargate. I think that first Voidray is very likely completed by the time the Roaches arrive at 7:40. What has been your experience with that timing? I've only done this sort of bust a couple of times, but, when my opponent did go stargate, the void ray had just popped when my attack hit. The VR shredded my roaches pretty fast, but wasn't able to handle the speedling that came with the initial push or the reinforcements. Despite the VR having impunity over my units, it couldn't kill them fast enough to matter. For reference, the approximate build is (obvious variations based on the scouting probes): + Show Spoiler + 14 - Pool 16 - Hatch 15-19 - Queen and lings 21 - Gas 20 - Hatch 28 - Roach Warren ****Stop Drones**** 27 - Overlord @100 Gas - Speed 28 - Lings 28 - Overlord 28-38 - Roaches (Rally Across Map) 38 - Overlord x2 38+ - Lings (Rally to Roaches) @7:50 - Dance lings once inside opponents natural. First wave hits ~7:40 with 5 roaches and a handful of speedlings. Bust down the door with the roaches and rally in reinforcing lings to finish off your opponent. | ||
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ian952
Canada124 Posts
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shadogi
United States194 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:09 ian952 wrote: What if your opponent force field the hole in his wall and then warps in more sentries for more force fields? The problem is that they are only going to have one sentry and warp gate shouldn't be even close to being complete by 7:15. If they went gateway expand, then WG can be done by ~6:40, but, even then, they will most likely only have one or two gates available and only so much gas to burn. | ||
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monkxly
Canada241 Posts
 Toss are getting way too greedy these days and this is a great all in to mix in | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:09 ian952 wrote: What if your opponent force field the hole in his wall and then warps in more sentries for more force fields? break the forge and any pylons in the wall. you can usually open up holes faster than he can warp in more sentries to fill them. especially if you do roach/ling instead of baneling. I'm not too familiar with the build actually, but I know when I do Roach/Ling timings the most dreaded scenario is my opponent gets his first Voidray out before I snipe the pylon powering the Stargate. I think that first Voidray is very likely completed by the time the Roaches arrive at 7:40. What has been your experience with that timing? The void ray is never out fast enough to save his wall from the roaches, and once you are in his base, you kill everything with speedlings. I went on a rampage on ladder doing the 3 hatch roach/ling build that shadogi is referring to. I'm masters on NA and this build carried me into top 8 of my division pretty easily. Here's 21 zvp games in a row, and I went 19-2. In my two losses I screwed up the build. One game I started the roach warren 30 seconds late and he barely held because I was late. In another game I forgot to start ling speed so I couldn't reinforce properly. http://drop.sc/257589 http://drop.sc/257590 http://drop.sc/257591 http://drop.sc/257592 http://drop.sc/257593 http://drop.sc/257594 http://drop.sc/257595 http://drop.sc/257597 http://drop.sc/258042 http://drop.sc/258043 http://drop.sc/258813 http://drop.sc/258814 http://drop.sc/258815 http://drop.sc/259482 http://drop.sc/259483 http://drop.sc/259485 http://drop.sc/259487 http://drop.sc/259488 http://drop.sc/259489 http://drop.sc/259490 http://drop.sc/259491 enjoy. it works just like the baneling bust - it is very hard to see it coming, and no one is ever prepared. | ||
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Wallack
Spain7 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:08 Oboeman wrote: break the forge and any pylons in the wall. you can usually open up holes faster than he can warp in more sentries to fill them. especially if you do roach/ling instead of baneling. The void ray is never out fast enough to save his wall from the roaches, and once you are in his base, you kill everything with speedlings. I went on a rampage on ladder doing the 3 hatch roach/ling build that shadogi is referring to. I'm masters on NA and this build carried me into top 8 of my division pretty easily. Here's 21 zvp games in a row, and I went 19-2. In my two losses I screwed up the build. One game I started the roach warren 30 seconds late and he barely held because I was late. In another game I forgot to start ling speed so I couldn't reinforce properly. http://drop.sc/257589 http://drop.sc/257590 http://drop.sc/257591 http://drop.sc/257592 http://drop.sc/257593 http://drop.sc/257594 http://drop.sc/257595 http://drop.sc/257597 http://drop.sc/258042 http://drop.sc/258043 http://drop.sc/258813 http://drop.sc/258814 http://drop.sc/258815 http://drop.sc/259482 http://drop.sc/259483 http://drop.sc/259485 http://drop.sc/259487 http://drop.sc/259488 http://drop.sc/259489 http://drop.sc/259490 http://drop.sc/259491 enjoy. it works just like the baneling bust - it is very hard to see it coming, and no one is ever prepared. Is there a post about it? why don't you create one explaining it? Kind regards! | ||
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Maismz
France15 Posts
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lodeet
United States147 Posts
On October 17 2012 18:37 Maismz wrote: Hey, tried this against a nexus first into forge, worked well, but against 1g expand how is this build doing ? THe toss will have some centry and bane doesn't do rly well against centry . . . Hit or miss. They will have 2 sentries and can ff while reinforcing wall off with cannons or gateways. If you catch them sleeping though it's gg. I think I have only lost using this build to fe into 4 gate. | ||
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Levernz
Canada50 Posts
And Tang, ive seen one of my teammate holding that 3 base ling bane all in with FE into 4gates with only sentries, and i think it's the best counter to that build and not the stargate play. | ||
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Levernz
Canada50 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
As toss the way to scout this is just to get a probe into the main or stay really active on the map even after you scout the 3 rd going down. | ||
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Rasper
United Kingdom25 Posts
On October 18 2012 04:25 DinoMight wrote: I got absolutely hosed by this the other day. Absolutely did not see it coming. Most Protosses (like me) scout the third base and automatically go into "awesome nothing is coming for another few minutes" mode. Then the banes hit... As toss the way to scout this is just to get a probe into the main or stay really active on the map even after you scout the 3 rd going down. As someone who enjoys this build I'd recommend sending a zealot into the main, you be lucky to get a probe into the main especially with queen range these days! I don't see how else you scout this otherwise, even if you see the lings streaming across the map sometimes its too late to prepare already depending on your opening. I must say I've had a few protoss hold this off really well but still my win rate vs FFE is way too high | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:52 Rasper wrote: As someone who enjoys this build I'd recommend sending a zealot into the main, you be lucky to get a probe into the main especially with queen range these days! I don't see how else you scout this otherwise, even if you see the lings streaming across the map sometimes its too late to prepare already depending on your opening. I must say I've had a few protoss hold this off really well but still my win rate vs FFE is way too high You're right about getting the probe in (though it's possible to scout the gas right around 3:30-3:45.) The problem with sending only 1 Zealot is it'll usually get killed by 4 Zerglings, so it's almost as though you either need to quickly send out 2 Zealots or 1Zealot/1Stalker and start immediately chronoboosting sentries when things don't add up (Ling speed or more than 4 Zerglings), or your build just needs to blindly build sentries early. | ||
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uNiQuEDK
United States2 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On January 22 2013 04:48 uNiQuEDK wrote: I've been using this build and have had great success with it. Only a few times i have been worried about it because i realized he might have been able to hold with proper ff. This is only if he chooses to go 2+ sentries instead of stalkers/zealots for early harass. Then an idea occurred to me... if you poke his front and see he has sentries, what about sending a 7 minute overlord as a 'retard magnet' to draw the sentries in. I mean, its standard scout time anyways. Hopefully, as most players do he will send his sentries to buzz away at the overlord, and that could be your que to fly in with the banelings. Even if your not sure if hes building sentries, you could always fly that overlord in. I don't think it would cripple your reinforcements too much. Tell me what you think and great guide! I've never actually done the "magnet" overlord to draw sentries away from the front, but I think it's a smart idea. It definitely wouldn't hurt your reinforcements enough to matter, and could help you with a game that you would otherwise lose. I'd love to see a replay of someone who pulls that off haha | ||
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