How to Mech in TvP [D][G] - Page 3

On February 14 2012 00:03 KAmaKAsa wrote:
why are people still trying mech?

On February 14 2012 00:28 Garmer wrote:


cuz it's more fun than stupid m&m vs colossus shitty a-move

On February 14 2012 00:16 KAmaKAsa wrote:


thing about BFH against zealots... is that they have very slow firerate and they do 19 damage per shot against a zealot and zealots usually arent in a line and zealots have 50 shields and 100 health even if you EMP you still have to hit ONE zealot for 6 shots to kill it and your hellions are usually dead after shooting once or twice because of the tank splash... zealots do high damage as it is and with tanks you have tank splash to hit your MM AND the stalkers/colossus and possible storms the armor helps alot against the zealot/stalker/colossus damage, because they all attack twice so you get double the damage reduction.

A MMM/ghost/viking army is much better than any sort of army that involves mech, reason being that marines have the highest dps against every protoss unit except stalker and colossus from the terran army and you have your vikings to kill the colossus and you should have around 8-14 ghosts to emp everything and a few marauders to tank zealots while your marines clean them up and also you shouldnt have more than 4 medivacs.. preferably 2 since that takes a bit from your army supply and you really should only stim once in the engagement.

The blueflame harass is kind of an extra thing, but you shouldn´t rely on it since eventually people are going to get better with building positioning and leaving a few units/building cannons etc and then that wont do any damage, it should be so that you can go mech from an even game and win from an even position and not from ahead

You always want to research vehicle weapons unless you scout an immortal bust then research vehicle armor (this is because thors gain more from armor against robo units then they do from weapons).

On February 14 2012 00:39 crocodile wrote:

Have you ever tried this composition? You're explaining in detail how the battles would play out, which is an understanding I would think you can only really get from trying it. The Hellions DO help out vs Chargelots a lot in my experience, and while the armor is important, as I've explained to you, my significant experience with this composition tells me that it's not as useful as the added DPS of Tanks and Hellions.

All I'm saying is my experience indicates the exact opposite of what you're saying, which in all honestly just leads me to believe you've never tried it and are theorycrafting. Or at the very least you have tried it a few times and failed miserably, then blamed the composition instead of trying to learn to play it correctly.

On February 14 2012 01:00 KAmaKAsa wrote:


The point i was trying to make is that the tank splash hurts your MM and hellions and chargelots arent clumped up after they charge so you would need to targetfire stalkers/sentrys/templars or w/e which automaticly kind of spread out so they can all shoot so they are not in a clump either so the tanks really dont do that much damage and also there are the archons and zealots and immortals soaking up the tank damage while storms and colossus kills your tanks.

and to the upgrade part the mechanic weapons upgrade doesnt scale as well as the infantry one does because marines and marauders have lower damage and faster fire rate so they really dont do that much more damage than they do originally

Also when you have to get all these different kind of things you really dont have that much of anything... tanks/hellions/marines/marauders/medivacs/vikings/ghosts and you do need atleast like 6 full energy ghosts to nullify some of the archon shields and the immortals and you need vikings to kill the colossus, because they just do alot of damage.

tanks and hellions do have low dps against protoss units, because they dont really clump up in an engagement and the splash makes tanks a good unit but theres not much splash that tanks can do in TvP.

And no I haven´t really tried that ever, because i haven´t felt any need to play other then the standard MMM/ghost/viking style TvP, since it is very good and viable and it does beat a protoss deathball in a lategame situation, because of the high dps,emp and vikings killing the colossus before they do too much damage and you will have an army advantage of around 30 supply because the protoss needs to have more workers to have an equal economy to you because of the MULE

On February 14 2012 05:49 Gyro_SC2 wrote:

This is why tvp mech doesn't work

On February 14 2012 00:59 Cheerio wrote:

Vehicle armor is useless against immortals and is near useless against colossi. If the bust is incoming you'd best just dont make any ugrades at all.

On February 14 2012 00:00 crocodile wrote:

Negligible DPS increase? Think about what you're saying for a second. The main issue with Terran vs Protoss right now is the Toss will max out quicker, with better upgrades and an army composition (Templar/Colossus) that Bio just doesn't seem to beat in a straight up fight.

You're saying that by sacrificing Bio armor for Tank DPS, you're going to overall weaken your army. Tanks do large burst damage that scales extremely well with upgrades, and basically is large enough to ignore the Protoss upgrades. That's why Tank DPS is so significant.

I can also say through experience that the presence of Medivacs is more important for keeping your Bio alive than armor upgrades, which you can still afford once you get to three bases anyway, and overall a Biomech army is also greatly strengthened by the addition of Blue Flame Hellions, which do extremely well when they're not being relied on to be meat shields and can help to kill those pesky Charge Zealots extremely effectively. Overall Tanks and BFHellions are extremely useful in TvP and I'd recommend you don't knock it till you've tried Warden's Biomech style.

You can still take advantage of Bio mobility anyway: you can drop and draw the Protoss army out of position while you take good tank positioning, just like in ZvT. The weaknesses you've mentioned actually do not exist with properly played Biomech. It's stronger than you think

On February 14 2012 05:55 TBone- wrote:


And on the diamond level,

On February 13 2012 14:17 crocodile wrote:

I can't actually argue with you because from your points, it's clear you've never actually used biomech. You've got the mindset that Day9 always talks about in that it's incredibly unproductive and ignorant: X counters Y, so I can't do Y! If you want, I can post dozens of replays of me winning TvP with both Thor and Tank-based Biomech and winning almost every time. TvP is my strongest matchup right now because I play it that way.

Everything you've said about biomech is incorrect because you clearly haven't used it before. You're always behind in upgrades even when going bio, so saying your bio is behind with biomech is absolutely pointless. It's a fact of TvP. You can afford upgrades from 1 Ebay 1 Armory for attack on both bio and vehicles. This is sufficient for dealing with Protoss all game with this comp.

Also, it's clear you've never used Mech either, or at least faced a good Protoss with it, because I guarantee you a production cycle of tanks and a group of Hellions out of position will not only fail to deal with Blink Stalkers, you will be out of position when the Protoss charges your line with Chargelot/Colossus. If this hasn't happened to you, you're not playing good Protosses.

On February 14 2012 06:39 tom_baburger wrote:
I also invite everyone who is already saying that mech doesn't work vs protoss to try it out. If you have already tried my build or another build out and it doesn't work please provide supporting evidence with a replay to support your claim. Otherwise don't post that mech doesn't work unless you have a video/replay of why it doesn't. Most players have a fatal flaw in their strategy that makes it doesn't work. Thanks for all the great input!