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On March 23 2012 03:23 Seppuku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 02:53 architecture wrote:
What an absurd thread, how can you discuss a strategy without discussing its viability. The fact is mech sucks, and in fact that the player that plays mech the most (Goody) has completely given it up TvP.
If I made a thread about battlecruisers, of course the first question is how is it viable. I can't just be like, no I don't care if BC's are viable, I just want to talk about making them. Sure you can make the units, and yea you can even win games with mass BC's if the situation is right. But none of this has anything to do with its solidness as a strategy.
The thing is that there's nothing impressive about mech against P. Mech is essentially completely tuned to support bio against Z, because of the slow rate of fire + burst dmg that one shots low hp Z. You can kind of see how this is completely useless against P. Any fight in a position (both spatially and temporally) that mech can win, bio can win too.
The MKP game is an excellent demonstration of how poor mech is. With a significant army and econ advantage, the mech army could barely beat a gateway immortal army on open ground. The units just suck against P. I completely disagree with the mindset that viability shouldn't be in the discussion. It's mostly that people like you come in and say the same nonesense we've seen and rebuked over and over again. If a 200/200 Mechanical BC Ghost army can compete with a 200/200 Protoss army, it is viable. It is completely childish to say that it isn't because a pro gamer doesn't do it. This is still a new game and new strategies won't be brought to light without discussion, rather than "stop trying, the pro gamers did." NO! Bio play has just as many pitfalls IF NOT MORE than mech play. Bio is, frankly, fragile as shit. It melts under AOE. Terrans are not not not making the most of all the units available to them. HSMs are only now starting to be used; what would they do to a a Toss deathball? EMP + Tank is ruinous to a Protoss army. The evidence is right in front of you in the replays. It's being used in Master's to large successes. I can't stand you idiots just blindly naysaying based on pro gamers' playstyles.
the replays from 1 average master player league can prove that mech is viable , are you serious ? lol.
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On March 23 2012 03:47 architecture wrote:
There's nothing to explore here. People have tried these compositions from day 1 of the beta, maybe you weren't here for that.
Get a friend, go to a custom map, and try out all the 200/200 compositions in fights. Fact is that mech barely breaks even in a straight up fight.
I don't understand why people are willing to discount the fact that the one pro, who has played thousands of games and hours with mech, more than anyone in this thread, has stopped using it TvP. And then you come here and claim that there's something he hasn't explored. What a fucking joke.
Would you be so kind and watch a single replay of Lyyna that is above 30 minutes where he absolutely owns 3/3/3 Protoss army composed of Chargelots/Immortals/Archons/Mothership and losing barely 50-60 supply befor posting such crap? Please, this would be so helpful..
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On March 23 2012 04:00 nOondn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 03:23 Seppuku wrote:On March 23 2012 02:53 architecture wrote:
What an absurd thread, how can you discuss a strategy without discussing its viability. The fact is mech sucks, and in fact that the player that plays mech the most (Goody) has completely given it up TvP.
If I made a thread about battlecruisers, of course the first question is how is it viable. I can't just be like, no I don't care if BC's are viable, I just want to talk about making them. Sure you can make the units, and yea you can even win games with mass BC's if the situation is right. But none of this has anything to do with its solidness as a strategy.
The thing is that there's nothing impressive about mech against P. Mech is essentially completely tuned to support bio against Z, because of the slow rate of fire + burst dmg that one shots low hp Z. You can kind of see how this is completely useless against P. Any fight in a position (both spatially and temporally) that mech can win, bio can win too.
The MKP game is an excellent demonstration of how poor mech is. With a significant army and econ advantage, the mech army could barely beat a gateway immortal army on open ground. The units just suck against P. I completely disagree with the mindset that viability shouldn't be in the discussion. It's mostly that people like you come in and say the same nonesense we've seen and rebuked over and over again. If a 200/200 Mechanical BC Ghost army can compete with a 200/200 Protoss army, it is viable. It is completely childish to say that it isn't because a pro gamer doesn't do it. This is still a new game and new strategies won't be brought to light without discussion, rather than "stop trying, the pro gamers did." NO! Bio play has just as many pitfalls IF NOT MORE than mech play. Bio is, frankly, fragile as shit. It melts under AOE. Terrans are not not not making the most of all the units available to them. HSMs are only now starting to be used; what would they do to a a Toss deathball? EMP + Tank is ruinous to a Protoss army. The evidence is right in front of you in the replays. It's being used in Master's to large successes. I can't stand you idiots just blindly naysaying based on pro gamers' playstyles. the replays from 1 average master player league can prove that mech is viable , are you serious ? lol.
lol, you know what.. Get out of here and go play your bio and whine how hard the game is and how hard it is to kill Protoss after 15 min mark. Don't even think about watching those replays here and see how effective late-game Terran army can be, really..
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On March 23 2012 02:32 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 13:45 crocodile wrote:On March 22 2012 09:29 Troxle wrote:
I feel a lack of the Protoss side for this and as a Protoss I don't see mech work ever. I've had several Terran try mech on several different maps and Protoss blind counters it in standard Protoss versus Terran game play. The Mech death ball is very powerful when sieged, but not invincible. And even still, a Protoss won't let a Terran push out on the map if they keep tabs on the army. A good Protoss will expoit the forced splittin' of the Terran to defend. I've pushed INTO a Terran Siege Tank, Thor, Hellion, Raven, Banshee, Viking and Planetary defense with the Protoss death ball and CRUSHED the Terran army. Zealots tear through Siege Tanks and Thors like its nobodies business. Colossus decimate as well. Stalkers are the weak link, but if you watch most Protoss versus Terran at high levels, stalker counts have always been low. Charge Zealots and Colossus with a few Archons and High Templar for Psionic Storm is what most Protoss go for. The stalkers are used simply to clear Vikings and Medivacs. The Terran mech death ball is way to immobile. Zealots are way more beefy then marines, zerglins, banelings, roaches, and hydralisks which all crumble to siege tanks. I haven't even mentioned the Immortal that makes quick work of Siege Tanks like its nobodies business! Not only do they take squat for damage from a Siege Tank, they absolutely decimate Siege Tank after Siege Tank.
I'm not sayin' this cannot work. I'm just sayin' this is a very, very bad build and with this match up already highly in Protoss favor; I would not advice mech in the match up. There is a reason you don't see it in GSL or when you do it fails miserable. I think it was MarineKing who tried it in Code S and I forget who he was against, but he got destroyed (I might not even have the Terran correct, but it was just a free win for the Protoss). And that is one of the more optimal maps in my opinion (the map was Dual Sight).
Summary: Mech is blind countered by standard Protoss play. Even Marine Tank is bad (I can't even figure out how Puzzle lost to GuMiho last season...I think even I could have beaten GuMiho's Marine Tank, its just suboptimal versus Protoss). If you want to "mech" I'd suggest the 1-1-1 all-in be the closest thing you do. And more preferably the 1-1-2 as it is much harder for the Protoss to hold in my opinion (I just hate havin' to get a Stargate just to deal with the extra banshee production; the 1-1-2 is my worst nightmare in the Protoss versus Terran match up honestly). NOBODY IS ASKING IF MECH IS VIABLE. Nobody cares if you think mech is viable, nobody cares if you think Protoss blind counters mech with standard play. We are not discussing the viability of mech. Can you please please just read the thread and understand that we want to talk about HOW to mech, given that we're going to try it whether it's viable or not. And by the way, Marineking did it in Code S and DESTROYED Genius. You're so misinformed and disturbingly ignorant of what's actually going on in this thread it's not even funny. I have agreed with many of your previous posts, but not this one. I know the title is "how" to mech, but surely, in the middle of this discussion, people will of course sooner or later discuss the viability of mech...they are connected..
Agreed. The discussion is certainly bound to touch on the viability of mech and I agree with the Protoss player except for marine/tank, which can be pretty strong.
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On March 23 2012 04:20 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 02:32 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:On March 22 2012 13:45 crocodile wrote:On March 22 2012 09:29 Troxle wrote:
I feel a lack of the Protoss side for this and as a Protoss I don't see mech work ever. I've had several Terran try mech on several different maps and Protoss blind counters it in standard Protoss versus Terran game play. The Mech death ball is very powerful when sieged, but not invincible. And even still, a Protoss won't let a Terran push out on the map if they keep tabs on the army. A good Protoss will expoit the forced splittin' of the Terran to defend. I've pushed INTO a Terran Siege Tank, Thor, Hellion, Raven, Banshee, Viking and Planetary defense with the Protoss death ball and CRUSHED the Terran army. Zealots tear through Siege Tanks and Thors like its nobodies business. Colossus decimate as well. Stalkers are the weak link, but if you watch most Protoss versus Terran at high levels, stalker counts have always been low. Charge Zealots and Colossus with a few Archons and High Templar for Psionic Storm is what most Protoss go for. The stalkers are used simply to clear Vikings and Medivacs. The Terran mech death ball is way to immobile. Zealots are way more beefy then marines, zerglins, banelings, roaches, and hydralisks which all crumble to siege tanks. I haven't even mentioned the Immortal that makes quick work of Siege Tanks like its nobodies business! Not only do they take squat for damage from a Siege Tank, they absolutely decimate Siege Tank after Siege Tank.
I'm not sayin' this cannot work. I'm just sayin' this is a very, very bad build and with this match up already highly in Protoss favor; I would not advice mech in the match up. There is a reason you don't see it in GSL or when you do it fails miserable. I think it was MarineKing who tried it in Code S and I forget who he was against, but he got destroyed (I might not even have the Terran correct, but it was just a free win for the Protoss). And that is one of the more optimal maps in my opinion (the map was Dual Sight).
Summary: Mech is blind countered by standard Protoss play. Even Marine Tank is bad (I can't even figure out how Puzzle lost to GuMiho last season...I think even I could have beaten GuMiho's Marine Tank, its just suboptimal versus Protoss). If you want to "mech" I'd suggest the 1-1-1 all-in be the closest thing you do. And more preferably the 1-1-2 as it is much harder for the Protoss to hold in my opinion (I just hate havin' to get a Stargate just to deal with the extra banshee production; the 1-1-2 is my worst nightmare in the Protoss versus Terran match up honestly). NOBODY IS ASKING IF MECH IS VIABLE. Nobody cares if you think mech is viable, nobody cares if you think Protoss blind counters mech with standard play. We are not discussing the viability of mech. Can you please please just read the thread and understand that we want to talk about HOW to mech, given that we're going to try it whether it's viable or not. And by the way, Marineking did it in Code S and DESTROYED Genius. You're so misinformed and disturbingly ignorant of what's actually going on in this thread it's not even funny. I have agreed with many of your previous posts, but not this one. I know the title is "how" to mech, but surely, in the middle of this discussion, people will of course sooner or later discuss the viability of mech...they are connected.. Agreed. The discussion is certainly bound to touch on the viability of mech and I agree with the Protoss player except for marine/tank, which can be pretty strong.
Well, yes.. But if people start talking like "it's not viable, nobody does that, etc.." and start flooding this thread with reasons why we should't even try - this is exactly what ruins any further experimenting and prooving that it of course IS viable. Might be harder/easer, might not just be the style pro players with high APM choose, because they want to be aggresive and exploit every weakness opponent makes, which they certainly can with bio and so on..
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While not specific to TvP, does anyone have an idea of the efficacy of mech in team games? I've been practicing TvP mech, as well as mech in general, and it would seem that it's a viable option in every facet of the game, just curious if anyone has experience in the area of a mid-late game team mech situation (can make a post/new thread if too OT).
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Can you please post more up to date replays...?
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On March 23 2012 02:53 architecture wrote:
What an absurd thread, how can you discuss a strategy without discussing its viability. The fact is mech sucks, and in fact that the player that plays mech the most (Goody) has completely given it up TvP.
If I made a thread about battlecruisers, of course the first question is how is it viable. I can't just be like, no I don't care if BC's are viable, I just want to talk about making them. Sure you can make the units, and yea you can even win games with mass BC's if the situation is right. But none of this has anything to do with its solidness as a strategy.
The thing is that there's nothing impressive about mech against P. Mech is essentially completely tuned to support bio against Z, because of the slow rate of fire + burst dmg that one shots low hp Z. You can kind of see how this is completely useless against P. Any fight in a position (both spatially and temporally) that mech can win, bio can win too.
The MKP game is an excellent demonstration of how poor mech is. With a significant army and econ advantage, the mech army could barely beat a gateway immortal army on open ground. The units just suck against P.
We need people to stop posting like this.
In extremely cramped, tight spaces, mech will win a fight that bio cannot. So with this fact + my previous posts, your whole argument is quite weak.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13888873
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13945369
Edit:
Also for people saying hellions suck vs chargelots... LOL. They only died quickly in MKP vs Genius because he sieged up in a bad position where his army got split in 3 FFs and he didn't kite with the hellions neither! It's like the equivalent of not splitting marines vs banelings. They suck if you just let them sit there but if you kite and split they counter (at least cost-wise) the other unit. I can't believe how many people say that hellions do not counter chargelots. It is really quite sad. Go try it out in a unit tester. BFH 0-0 absolutely RAPE 3-3-3 chargelots as long as you have space to kite. That's 0-0 vs 3-3-3. The larger the numbers, the more it favors the BFH. Suddenly the Chargelot mineral sink isn't quite useful anymore. And it's much much easier than kiting with MM while having to dodge/split vs storms and shit, and where a miscmicro is more dangerous (like there being 1 HT with a storm left and storming your whole bio army, etc.)
Not to mention it is MUCH easier to macro with Mech. No more of that 4aaaaaaddddddddddgg5vvdd shit during your battles. 4gg5eeeeeessst6vvvv, and about 2 times less frequently. So you're only spending 1/3 the keystrokes.
Mech does and will become more common especially in HotS (hopefully).
Remember how mech wasn't viable TvZ?
Remember how mech wasn't viable TvT?
hah! just cus progamers don't do it doesn't mean it doesn't work -- it probably is more that they haven't figured it out yet and/or haven't decided to commit to spending time trying something new out where, if they fail, they may lose precious practice time.
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On March 22 2012 07:15 MarcH wrote:
So having skimmed through the thread I haven't seen much mention on maps in correlation to Mech TvP as whenever I have tried to Mech vs a P I have only really felt comfortable on 3 maps (though I am not the best player), Those being Metalopolis, Xel,Naga ( i know not relay relevant anymore) and Antiga.
I am going to look at replays in a moment but I wanted to ask what maps do people veto and how do you go about limiting the mobility of a Protoss as the times I have really felt Mech is good is when I'm not being agressive with my army but positioning myself in either a Threatening position forcing the P to react or a very good defensive position that prevents the Protoss from expanding while I am able to take additional bases (metal is great for this).
Also I was wondering on the best ways to constrict space on more open maps as Tanks while good aren't great in small numbers and Planetary's aren't great unsupported is it something you try to do or Is it something that you just ignore as their are bigger worries (warp prism and blink being the biggest).
I'm not in masters, so I know anything I say about strategy is null, but particularly on Entombed valley and Cloud Kingdom I've found incorporating tanks mid game has worked incredibly well. The idea is to not ignore ur factory, as in MMM, and use it to produce tanks.
On Entombed Valley I open 2 rax and push with 1 marauder/9 marines. Considering most protoss FE, you can pressure with 2rax and expand yourself. Then continue upgrading bio and getting a starport, but also producing tanks. My mid-game push is with 2 or 3 tanks, marines, marauders, +1, and two medivacs. What you do is fill one medivac with marines and spread them out on the ledge of the natural while sieging up on the bottom with the rest of the bio. If the toss abandons the natural, you can take out all the probes and go to the main with ur marines and medivac, but usually they send their army to the top, losing all the zealots and usually the rest of their army (usually with 2 immortals).
On Cloud Kingdom I've found tanks work well all game, especially for pressure. Same build, but if you scout mass immortals against your one factory tank, you can use your first starport for banshee production. I usually work off of 2 starports every TvP unless I see triple robo or something. Once you siege up the low ground of their nat/third, you can basically do whatever you want. I like again to drop the top and force engagements, where usually in a 1-a toss army will lose at least all the zealots and some sentries to tank fire.
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On March 23 2012 04:26 Mortal wrote:
While not specific to TvP, does anyone have an idea of the efficacy of mech in team games? I've been practicing TvP mech, as well as mech in general, and it would seem that it's a viable option in every facet of the game, just curious if anyone has experience in the area of a mid-late game team mech situation (can make a post/new thread if too OT).
I mech every team games. In 3v3 and 4v4, and it's pretty solid when you secure your 3rd. You don't even need AA and once you get maxed, you're like in godmode.
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On March 23 2012 04:26 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 04:20 zmansman17 wrote:On March 23 2012 02:32 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:On March 22 2012 13:45 crocodile wrote:On March 22 2012 09:29 Troxle wrote:
I feel a lack of the Protoss side for this and as a Protoss I don't see mech work ever. I've had several Terran try mech on several different maps and Protoss blind counters it in standard Protoss versus Terran game play. The Mech death ball is very powerful when sieged, but not invincible. And even still, a Protoss won't let a Terran push out on the map if they keep tabs on the army. A good Protoss will expoit the forced splittin' of the Terran to defend. I've pushed INTO a Terran Siege Tank, Thor, Hellion, Raven, Banshee, Viking and Planetary defense with the Protoss death ball and CRUSHED the Terran army. Zealots tear through Siege Tanks and Thors like its nobodies business. Colossus decimate as well. Stalkers are the weak link, but if you watch most Protoss versus Terran at high levels, stalker counts have always been low. Charge Zealots and Colossus with a few Archons and High Templar for Psionic Storm is what most Protoss go for. The stalkers are used simply to clear Vikings and Medivacs. The Terran mech death ball is way to immobile. Zealots are way more beefy then marines, zerglins, banelings, roaches, and hydralisks which all crumble to siege tanks. I haven't even mentioned the Immortal that makes quick work of Siege Tanks like its nobodies business! Not only do they take squat for damage from a Siege Tank, they absolutely decimate Siege Tank after Siege Tank.
I'm not sayin' this cannot work. I'm just sayin' this is a very, very bad build and with this match up already highly in Protoss favor; I would not advice mech in the match up. There is a reason you don't see it in GSL or when you do it fails miserable. I think it was MarineKing who tried it in Code S and I forget who he was against, but he got destroyed (I might not even have the Terran correct, but it was just a free win for the Protoss). And that is one of the more optimal maps in my opinion (the map was Dual Sight).
Summary: Mech is blind countered by standard Protoss play. Even Marine Tank is bad (I can't even figure out how Puzzle lost to GuMiho last season...I think even I could have beaten GuMiho's Marine Tank, its just suboptimal versus Protoss). If you want to "mech" I'd suggest the 1-1-1 all-in be the closest thing you do. And more preferably the 1-1-2 as it is much harder for the Protoss to hold in my opinion (I just hate havin' to get a Stargate just to deal with the extra banshee production; the 1-1-2 is my worst nightmare in the Protoss versus Terran match up honestly). NOBODY IS ASKING IF MECH IS VIABLE. Nobody cares if you think mech is viable, nobody cares if you think Protoss blind counters mech with standard play. We are not discussing the viability of mech. Can you please please just read the thread and understand that we want to talk about HOW to mech, given that we're going to try it whether it's viable or not. And by the way, Marineking did it in Code S and DESTROYED Genius. You're so misinformed and disturbingly ignorant of what's actually going on in this thread it's not even funny. I have agreed with many of your previous posts, but not this one. I know the title is "how" to mech, but surely, in the middle of this discussion, people will of course sooner or later discuss the viability of mech...they are connected.. Agreed. The discussion is certainly bound to touch on the viability of mech and I agree with the Protoss player except for marine/tank, which can be pretty strong. Well, yes.. But if people start talking like "it's not viable, nobody does that, etc.." and start flooding this thread with reasons why we should't even try - this is exactly what ruins any further experimenting and prooving that it of course IS viable. Might be harder/easer, might not just be the style pro players with high APM choose, because they want to be aggresive and exploit every weakness opponent makes, which they certainly can with bio and so on..
yup; remember when people where considering Mech vs Zerg not really viable? Then Nada and MVP picked it up and now DeMuslim can beat NesTea with it. In a tournament game on the same server.
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Has anyone got replays of mech being played well? I would love to see how it is developing (as a protoss player). Thanks in advance if anyone gets some!
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On March 23 2012 03:47 architecture wrote:
Get a friend, go to a custom map, and try out all the 200/200 compositions in fights. Fact is that mech barely breaks even in a straight up fight. .
I guess that, for you, the only possible mech army is 200 supp of siege tanks and hellions,without any air, ghost, thors,or statics defense?
Anyway, i really like your 'get a friend' argument. I mech since one and an half year,and i nearly NEVER lost lategame with mech. The only thing i do sometimes loose to in lategame is huge carriers switch (with like 5 stargates) unscouted on some bigs maps where he hides his sg and i get too lazy to scout.
Also, to all people talking about goody's play : he was playing ONE specific style of mech, relying a lot of BFH and really few on ghosts. So immortal buff and BFH nerf basically killed it. But there is a lots of way to mech, in fact more than bio
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Guys, I've been trying Mech in Master league. I have replays. No Ghosts, and my opponents didn't respond SUPER well, but I have been getting better at it. The first one is my first ever attempt, the latest one is a game I just played where I am feeling much more comfortable with the style. So far I've won 4/6 games, and the ones I lost I made really silly mistakes that I learned from. For example one game I didn't use sensor towers *facepalm*
http://drop.sc/140222
http://drop.sc/140223
http://drop.sc/140224
http://drop.sc/140225
I'm finding success with careful turtling while harassing while I build up a heavily upgraded Tank/Thor/Viking/Banshee/BC/Raven/BFH ball. That means every choke has Orbitals or Planetaries , my entire side of the map is covered by Sensor Towers, turrets at every base, and a bunch of Barracks floating around for mobile choke point creation. Also, sacrifice SCVs later in the game to make your maxed army stronger. It's so fun to watch a Protoss who is afraid to engage MY army for once, and then also to see that Protoss army get ROFLSTOMPED as you force them to engage!
*Master league
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On March 23 2012 03:47 architecture wrote:
There's nothing to explore here. People have tried these compositions from day 1 of the beta, maybe you weren't here for that.
Get a friend, go to a custom map, and try out all the 200/200 compositions in fights. Fact is that mech barely breaks even in a straight up fight.
I don't understand why people are willing to discount the fact that the one pro, who has played thousands of games and hours with mech, more than anyone in this thread, has stopped using it TvP. And then you come here and claim that there's something he hasn't explored. What a fucking joke.
Do you really have nothing better to do? You're arguing on an internet forum with people who will disagree with you no matter what you say, over a point you honestly shouldn't care that much about, which is whether or not OTHER PEOPLE try a strategy in a video game. Go away you angry nerd.
By the way I have 4 examples of Mech armies taking out Protoss armies in a maxed situation posted above. Check them out.
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On March 23 2012 05:56 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 03:47 architecture wrote:
There's nothing to explore here. People have tried these compositions from day 1 of the beta, maybe you weren't here for that.
Get a friend, go to a custom map, and try out all the 200/200 compositions in fights. Fact is that mech barely breaks even in a straight up fight.
I don't understand why people are willing to discount the fact that the one pro, who has played thousands of games and hours with mech, more than anyone in this thread, has stopped using it TvP. And then you come here and claim that there's something he hasn't explored. What a fucking joke. Do you really have nothing better to do? You're arguing on an internet forum with people who will disagree with you no matter what you say, over a point you honestly shouldn't care that much about, which is whether or not OTHER PEOPLE try a strategy in a video game. Go away you angry nerd. By the way I have 4 examples of Mech armies taking out Protoss armies in a maxed situation posted above. Check them out.
lol @ game vs potato, like main fight, 5 random 3/3 Thors just sitting out of battle and still owning hard.. Seriously, it's silly, how stupid Master Protoss players look when they can't abuse their late-game deathball vs bio.. :DD
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Ha! They took out like 20 zealots and a bunch of stalkers before he retreated ffs. 30 supply of Bio would've gotten raped by those units. I'm very proud of that game- did you see me build rax in front of my army when I sieged up his 4th base? I felt so clever when I did that.
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On March 23 2012 09:35 crocodile wrote:
Ha! They took out like 20 zealots and a bunch of stalkers before he retreated ffs. 30 supply of Bio would've gotten raped by those units. I'm very proud of that game- did you see me build rax in front of my army when I sieged up his 4th base? I felt so clever when I did that.
Ye, that was cool.. But to be completly honest I don't think it was even necessary.. More like overkill with those raxes. :D I think it's ok though to block like 1 or 2 entrances during the most dangerous stages of the game - like before you take your 3/4th.. Thors with +3 armor are so durable against Zealots, it's funny to see them just die only to bring 1 Thor to half health.
I think we need some testing against more competent Protosses however. I couldn't belive those guys were Masters. Don't get me wrong, you played well and patiently, but it really is funny, how desperate those guys looked.
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As an enthusiatic Mech player I was and still am really hopeful to work on a Mech build vs P that I could use as my standard ladder build.
Looking at the first batch of replays from Lyyna left me completely unconvinced. The theme of the replays was basically macro into BCs and take a fourth base, then take a nap on your keyboard while the Protoss randomly attacks the (surprisingly) undefeatable deathball, then rinse and repeat for the extension of 30+ minutes. I literally got bored watching those games and had me thinking that if that was the way to play Mech vs P then it isn't worth it at all. Protoss wasn't even doing warp prism drops, harassing with Void Rays, or even doing two-pronged attacks. So it was boring, and skeptical at best.
Then I look at Croc's replay and all I have to say is: Thank you for being realistic about the build. I'm glad you didn't sit on your ass for 30+ minutes when you had perfect opportunities to take out expansions and push forward. This demands the Protoss to react to your army and not allow him to set up harassment drops because without the full supply of his army, he has no chance of winning. You revitalized my desire to go Mech.
I really like the use of Barracks too. I've done that myself in the past, especially in open maps like Tal'darim Altar to lower the effectiveness of being surrounded. Only problem I see with the build is it has yet to be put up against a nimble style like gateway play.
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On March 23 2012 04:26 Mortal wrote:
While not specific to TvP, does anyone have an idea of the efficacy of mech in team games? I've been practicing TvP mech, as well as mech in general, and it would seem that it's a viable option in every facet of the game, just curious if anyone has experience in the area of a mid-late game team mech situation (can make a post/new thread if too OT).
Been some time since I last played team games, but in 2v2 mech is in my opinion very good. I Play with two different protosses, so my mech army get loads of protection from their insane deathball, and tanks + colo + storm = win win win.
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EPT
