EPTHow to Mech in TvP [D][G] - Page 2
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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Bourne
United Kingdom152 Posts
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rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
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tom_baburger
United States23 Posts
In my build I only get two thors because I have found that tanks are weak against all ins early game. I would agree that biomech is not viable in TvP because of the mixed upgrades as well as the lack of a critical mass. | ||
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tom_baburger
United States23 Posts
@Bourne- They will most likely not gas steal because there is literally a 5 second window in which they could do it since I get both of the gas on 14. | ||
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rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Then 3rd gas, swap the Tlab with the Fact, produce a Tank, then siege when u have gas for non stop tanks. Marines from the naked rax as needed. Remember to scout with the reaper for stargates and whatnot.Goal is not to do damage, you ll be on par with about anything, barring a nexus first, then you can kill probes to compensate. From then you can transition into whatever you want. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On February 13 2012 09:52 tom_baburger wrote: @TBone- sorry that was just the first site I saw; I'm pretty sure its legit but if its not just let me know and I can try and use a different site. @Bourne- They will most likely not gas steal because there is literally a 5 second window in which they could do it since I get both of the gas on 14. Avast just told me it was suspicious, I'd change it to like sc2reps | ||
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On February 13 2012 09:32 rgTheSchworz wrote: You´re talking trash. Any talk about biomech, or thor- based mech is either situational, all-in or troll. Biomech doesn t share the same upgrades. Vs a protoss that upgrades faster than you do, it s terribad. You know what unupgraded marines do to fully upgraded chargelots?. Nothing. Why go Biomech? You have to keep your tanks together with your bio-army, which is not good at all. You can t harass else you get picked apart. Thor-based mech is bad because of Feedback and Immortals. Don t try to talk me out of this with EMP your own thors or get strike cannons, because you re essentially using more expensive units to barely beat cheap-ass units. It isnt even cost effective, by the way.Why use thors when you have marauders?They re basically more mobile, have more dps vs armored, lag behind a bit on dps vs zeals, but can kite, and are healable and droppable. If you want to go mech, Tanks are the way.You can defend blinks with hellions if you actually took the time to surround the stalkers. Plus, there s always the next production cycle of tanks waiting to assist you. MKP vs Genius was how to play mech, but had a few major flaws: Too many marines. You have to rely on scouting vs air switches. Go hellions, they re better, giving that youre not going to research stim nor shields. Late Upgrades.That s why, along with not target firing well, MKP lost the second battle.1/0 vs 1/2 even though MKP had the better army. Not enough hellions.Make m, love em. Tons of those along with good wrapping around archons/Immortalls will save the day for you.Splash makes Hellions cost-efficient vs Stalkers and Immortals, and basically any non splash protoss-unit. I can't actually argue with you because from your points, it's clear you've never actually used biomech. You've got the mindset that Day9 always talks about in that it's incredibly unproductive and ignorant: X counters Y, so I can't do Y! If you want, I can post dozens of replays of me winning TvP with both Thor and Tank-based Biomech and winning almost every time. TvP is my strongest matchup right now because I play it that way. Everything you've said about biomech is incorrect because you clearly haven't used it before. You're always behind in upgrades even when going bio, so saying your bio is behind with biomech is absolutely pointless. It's a fact of TvP. You can afford upgrades from 1 Ebay 1 Armory for attack on both bio and vehicles. This is sufficient for dealing with Protoss all game with this comp. Also, it's clear you've never used Mech either, or at least faced a good Protoss with it, because I guarantee you a production cycle of tanks and a group of Hellions out of position will not only fail to deal with Blink Stalkers, you will be out of position when the Protoss charges your line with Chargelot/Colossus. If this hasn't happened to you, you're not playing good Protosses. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
going biomech is also garbage because you sacrifice the mobility advantage bio gives you for a negligible dps increase along with the increased cost of getting triple ups which decreases your production capabilities or sacrificing bio armor which is pretty important vs zealots. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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Severus_
759 Posts
On February 13 2012 16:15 rauk wrote: mech without ghosts has zero way to deal with archons. if he has archons, he will roll your army, always. in a 200/200 situation, mech will always lose to protoss. for instance look at MKP vs genius on dual sight, MKP is ahead by 80 supply and he still almost loses his entire army to archon zealot. furthermore, you can't deal with warp prism harass, because mech is garbage in small amounts, which means you always have to pull your whole army back or risk either losing what's left out on the field or being unable to deal with his drop. you can't deal with blink stalker + colossi harass into your main because you will lose your army going back up your own main ramp. going biomech is also garbage because you sacrifice the mobility advantage bio gives you for a negligible dps increase along with the increased cost of getting triple ups which decreases your production capabilities or sacrificing bio armor which is pretty important vs zealots. True about the ghosts and i disagree with the others drops aren't issue when you have Flash number of turrets in your bases. MKP was playing mech like it was bio i think even Artosis said it you can't just run around the map with your army becasue you get cought yes and P rolls you. The only real problem i see in mech is no anti-air everything else is fine even if you practice a ton of mech and have perfect sense when to build what and how to position i think if there is a heavy air switch mid-late game you will die. Stalkers are not the problem if the other dude starts massing them get 2~3 ravens its like playing TvT with rauders with good timing when you drop PDD's he is not doing any dmg while your tanks melt his army. I think zeals are bigger problem because of charge. Lets say you have your mech army with hellions upfront and he charges in with his army the zeals get upclose really fast and the thing is hellions don't beat zeals 1on1 if you don't kite BUT if you kite the zeal still charges for 3.5sec till 1st attack which leads to zeals beeing in your mech ball while you splash your own units. If you choose not to do anything and just leave your hellions still makes the tanks to splash your own units. Of course you can avoid that by beeing in better position, focus fire stalkers with your tanks,engage at maximum range from your siege line. Also one little trick i saw back from cArn is your thors should lead the army and you shift+click your hellions on the thors and when the zeals attack sometimes the AI glitches and + that you have a meatshield for your hellions to kill the zeals. Your hellions will start to attack immediately because they have scan attack. If you do everything correctly nothing in SC2 beats mech on the ground. | ||
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TheV
Brazil107 Posts
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Origine
France167 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On February 13 2012 16:15 rauk wrote: mech without ghosts has zero way to deal with archons. if he has archons, he will roll your army, always. in a 200/200 situation, mech will always lose to protoss. for instance look at MKP vs genius on dual sight, MKP is ahead by 80 supply and he still almost loses his entire army to archon zealot. furthermore, you can't deal with warp prism harass, because mech is garbage in small amounts, which means you always have to pull your whole army back or risk either losing what's left out on the field or being unable to deal with his drop. you can't deal with blink stalker + colossi harass into your main because you will lose your army going back up your own main ramp. going biomech is also garbage because you sacrifice the mobility advantage bio gives you for a negligible dps increase along with the increased cost of getting triple ups which decreases your production capabilities or sacrificing bio armor which is pretty important vs zealots. Negligible DPS increase? Think about what you're saying for a second. The main issue with Terran vs Protoss right now is the Toss will max out quicker, with better upgrades and an army composition (Templar/Colossus) that Bio just doesn't seem to beat in a straight up fight. You're saying that by sacrificing Bio armor for Tank DPS, you're going to overall weaken your army. Tanks do large burst damage that scales extremely well with upgrades, and basically is large enough to ignore the Protoss upgrades. That's why Tank DPS is so significant. I can also say through experience that the presence of Medivacs is more important for keeping your Bio alive than armor upgrades, which you can still afford once you get to three bases anyway, and overall a Biomech army is also greatly strengthened by the addition of Blue Flame Hellions, which do extremely well when they're not being relied on to be meat shields and can help to kill those pesky Charge Zealots extremely effectively. Overall Tanks and BFHellions are extremely useful in TvP and I'd recommend you don't knock it till you've tried Warden's Biomech style. You can still take advantage of Bio mobility anyway: you can drop and draw the Protoss army out of position while you take good tank positioning, just like in ZvT. The weaknesses you've mentioned actually do not exist with properly played Biomech. It's stronger than you think  | ||
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KAmaKAsa
Finland210 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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KAmaKAsa
Finland210 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
On February 14 2012 00:03 KAmaKAsa wrote: why are people still trying mech? Why are people still being asshats in this thread instead of contributing to the discussion? Don't just say 'that strategy is not good.' Give a good reason to support your argument or no one has any reason to believe you have any idea what you're talking about. | ||
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Daimai
Sweden762 Posts
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KAmaKAsa
Finland210 Posts
On February 14 2012 00:00 crocodile wrote: Negligible DPS increase? Think about what you're saying for a second. The main issue with Terran vs Protoss right now is the Toss will max out quicker, with better upgrades and an army composition (Templar/Colossus) that Bio just doesn't seem to beat in a straight up fight. You're saying that by sacrificing Bio armor for Tank DPS, you're going to overall weaken your army. Tanks do large burst damage that scales extremely well with upgrades, and basically is large enough to ignore the Protoss upgrades. That's why Tank DPS is so significant. I can also say through experience that the presence of Medivacs is more important for keeping your Bio alive than armor upgrades, which you can still afford once you get to three bases anyway, and overall a Biomech army is also greatly strengthened by the addition of Blue Flame Hellions, which do extremely well when they're not being relied on to be meat shields and can help to kill those pesky Charge Zealots extremely effectively. Overall Tanks and BFHellions are extremely useful in TvP and I'd recommend you don't knock it till you've tried Warden's Biomech style. You can still take advantage of Bio mobility anyway: you can drop and draw the Protoss army out of position while you take good tank positioning, just like in ZvT. The weaknesses you've mentioned actually do not exist with properly played Biomech. It's stronger than you think thing about BFH against zealots... is that they have very slow firerate and they do 19 damage per shot against a zealot and zealots usually arent in a line and zealots have 50 shields and 100 health even if you EMP you still have to hit ONE zealot for 6 shots to kill it and your hellions are usually dead after shooting once or twice because of the tank splash... zealots do high damage as it is and with tanks you have tank splash to hit your MM AND the stalkers/colossus and possible storms the armor helps alot against the zealot/stalker/colossus damage, because they all attack twice so you get double the damage reduction. A MMM/ghost/viking army is much better than any sort of army that involves mech, reason being that marines have the highest dps against every protoss unit except stalker and colossus from the terran army and you have your vikings to kill the colossus and you should have around 8-14 ghosts to emp everything and a few marauders to tank zealots while your marines clean them up and also you shouldnt have more than 4 medivacs.. preferably 2 since that takes a bit from your army supply and you really should only stim once in the engagement. The blueflame harass is kind of an extra thing, but you shouldn´t rely on it since eventually people are going to get better with building positioning and leaving a few units/building cannons etc and then that wont do any damage, it should be so that you can go mech from an even game and win from an even position and not from ahead | ||
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