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On April 15 2012 04:36 InfCereal wrote:
I don't care at all about the current "Tang hurr durr this that durr" thing going on in this thread, but someone mentioned 14/14 baneling play.
I've found the best way to stop baneling play is to stop them from morphing in. I often play against 14/14 banelings, but have never had the blings successfully finish morphing. I've had much more problems with a 9-10 pool baneling play though. Generally if I see more than 4 lings leave his base and not show up at my front door, I'll move out with slow lings and try to find where they're hiding. (Usually right out of vision)
Well the problem that 14/14 baneling all-ins pose against players who open with the 15/15/17hatch is that you don't have speed early enough, or sufficient lings while he's morphing in. I've found the best response is to build a spine and transfer down to the expansion, as well as wall the ramp with queens and produce a 3rd one.
Here is an example: http://drop.sc/158050
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 15 2012 04:36 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 04:28 TheMooseHeed wrote:On April 15 2012 04:08 TangSC wrote:On April 15 2012 03:20 Universum wrote:
I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer. Don't flatter yourself, lol, that reddit thread has been around since season 2 and is proven to be a joke taken out of context. Do a bit of research on the poster of that screenshot before jumping to conclusions. I am willing to believe this. Source of proof? The poster's history: http://www.reddit.com/user/llKENZYllErroneous claims against other members of the community: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/npitx/tt1_maphacks_just_like_in_brood_war/Not to mention, like I said, it's simply a joke taken out of context, which is why they posted the screenshot and not the replay. I can say with 100% sincerity that I would never pay someone to leave a game, nor would I go as low as to create an account to bump my threads. I love SC2 and the community, my biggest failures were my first few guides on TL which were promotion oriented instead of content oriented. Live and learn! I'm now firmly dedicated to producing the absolute best guides I can.
Thanks for the explanation. For now I am satisfied that it is just haters stirring.
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I don't understand the hate for Tang, there is no shortage of general knowledge on how to play the standard macro zerg, it's nice to have some guides for some strong timing attacks. Even if you are mostly a macro player, it's nice to mix up your game.
At any rate, I've been using this build a lot in ZvZ, and with a lot of success. It's pretty all in in that your drone count will be kinda low, but you do have the expansion up, so as long as you don't just get stomped on the initial attack (basically only happens if you make a micro goof and get bane'd really bad) you can switch into defensive macro mode with a solid advantage pretty easily from the 2hatch/2queens.
Often it just flat out kills them though.
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I think this is really deadly build i counter all 14/14 builds and i think the only good counter to this 16 hatch 17 gas 17 pool into banes which is so rare nowadays  Great guide, dont understand the hate.
Masters Zerg btw
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On April 15 2012 04:49 TheMooseHeed wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 15 2012 04:36 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 04:28 TheMooseHeed wrote:On April 15 2012 04:08 TangSC wrote:On April 15 2012 03:20 Universum wrote:
I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer. Don't flatter yourself, lol, that reddit thread has been around since season 2 and is proven to be a joke taken out of context. Do a bit of research on the poster of that screenshot before jumping to conclusions. I am willing to believe this. Source of proof? The poster's history: http://www.reddit.com/user/llKENZYllErroneous claims against other members of the community: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/npitx/tt1_maphacks_just_like_in_brood_war/Not to mention, like I said, it's simply a joke taken out of context, which is why they posted the screenshot and not the replay. I can say with 100% sincerity that I would never pay someone to leave a game, nor would I go as low as to create an account to bump my threads. I love SC2 and the community, my biggest failures were my first few guides on TL which were promotion oriented instead of content oriented. Live and learn! I'm now firmly dedicated to producing the absolute best guides I can. Thanks for the explanation. For now I am satisfied that it is just haters stirring.
I appreciate that ^^
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On April 15 2012 05:07 WizardOfTime wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Tang, there is no shortage of general knowledge on how to play the standard macro zerg, it's nice to have some guides for some strong timing attacks. Even if you are mostly a macro player, it's nice to mix up your game.
At any rate, I've been using this build a lot in ZvZ, and with a lot of success. It's pretty all in in that your drone count will be kinda low, but you do have the expansion up, so as long as you don't just get stomped on the initial attack (basically only happens if you make a micro goof and get bane'd really bad) you can switch into defensive macro mode with a solid advantage pretty easily from the 2hatch/2queens.
Often it just flat out kills them though.
Generally, foreign fans just look down on all-inish play with disgust, usually because it produces quick and boring games. The problem arises when they associate someone who all-ins with someone who lacks the skill to macro, and quickly link the two without any real foundation. And then they wonder why foreigners lose to koreans.
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On April 15 2012 06:13 Forbidden17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 05:07 WizardOfTime wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Tang, there is no shortage of general knowledge on how to play the standard macro zerg, it's nice to have some guides for some strong timing attacks. Even if you are mostly a macro player, it's nice to mix up your game.
At any rate, I've been using this build a lot in ZvZ, and with a lot of success. It's pretty all in in that your drone count will be kinda low, but you do have the expansion up, so as long as you don't just get stomped on the initial attack (basically only happens if you make a micro goof and get bane'd really bad) you can switch into defensive macro mode with a solid advantage pretty easily from the 2hatch/2queens.
Often it just flat out kills them though. Generally, foreign fans just look down on all-inish play with disgust, usually because it produces quick and boring games. The problem arises when they associate someone who all-ins with someone who lacks the skill to macro, and quickly link the two without any real foundation. And then they wonder why foreigners lose to koreans.
I don't really think there should be a negative association with a player who prefers to all-in over macro, it's just a stylistic choice. If they're able to make it work, it's a viable strategy.
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It was not as much the post on reddit but the ban by CHILL
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Yes, please explain. You had an account banned on TL for sock puppeting, I can't remember the date, but I read the admins post in the ban log and he calls you out by name.
As far as the merits of cheesing go: I personally believe that straight up cheese is the best way to learn the game, as you learn how to control a few units, learn how to kill an opponant, and learn to macro while controlling units. Why build a ton of units on a ton of bases when you can't even properly control a few units on 1 base? Others may disagree, but I think they are wrong.
My problems with you are twofold: 1) cheese is fine, but you make your guides out to be these super special elite builds or whatever, when they are not. Just call it what it is. 2) I personally do not believe you post these guides for any reason other than to drum up new clients for your coaching. To me, you seem disingenuous. This isn't about SC, your love of the game, helping noobs, it is about making money. And even that would be ok if the content was better. Notice a theme here? Deceptive practices.
As it stands, you clutter up TL with these guides and write off people like me, who call you out on this stuff, as nothing more than elitist haters, when in reality most seem to really take issue with dressing a pig in lipstick and calling it a supermodel, and then trying to sell said pig to a group of people who, by definition, don't know any better.
I eagerly await your thoughtful reply.
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On April 15 2012 04:06 TangSC wrote:No, that account has been unbanned - it was originally banned (About 8 months ago) because a friend and I matched IPs while on the University campus. I've never had another account other than this one for Team Liquid.
As previously stated, the account was unbanned by Chill. He assumed the same public IP address meant the same person, but I messaged him and he verified that the account did not belong to me and unbanned it immediately.
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On April 15 2012 21:33 rikter wrote:
Yes, please explain. You had an account banned on TL for sock puppeting, I can't remember the date, but I read the admins post in the ban log and he calls you out by name.
As far as the merits of cheesing go: I personally believe that straight up cheese is the best way to learn the game, as you learn how to control a few units, learn how to kill an opponant, and learn to macro while controlling units. Why build a ton of units on a ton of bases when you can't even properly control a few units on 1 base? Others may disagree, but I think they are wrong.
My problems with you are twofold: 1) cheese is fine, but you make your guides out to be these super special elite builds or whatever, when they are not. Just call it what it is. 2) I personally do not believe you post these guides for any reason other than to drum up new clients for your coaching. To me, you seem disingenuous. This isn't about SC, your love of the game, helping noobs, it is about making money. And even that would be ok if the content was better. Notice a theme here? Deceptive practices.
As it stands, you clutter up TL with these guides and write off people like me, who call you out on this stuff, as nothing more than elitist haters, when in reality most seem to really take issue with dressing a pig in lipstick and calling it a supermodel, and then trying to sell said pig to a group of people who, by definition, don't know any better.
I eagerly await your thoughtful reply.
I never called anyone out as an "elitist hater", I read all comments of criticism and support in an attempt to find ways to improve my content. Furthermore, I always appreciate users' insights and contributions to my threads, and I never take someone disagreeing with me as an insult. The primary reason I don't respond to all the messages of criticism is because most often there aren't any constructive points that I can learn from. Usually, the comments come from players who are uninformed, do not produce content of their own, and have no interest in improving the quality of helpful content on the Team Liquid forum.
For example, your first argument: "1) cheese is fine, but you make your guides out to be these super special elite builds or whatever, when they are not. Just call it what it is" proves only that you haven't even taken the time to read my guides before commenting. Here are examples of me calling an all-in build what it is:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306525
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317003
Also, here are examples of me examining more macro-related elements:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301616
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324733
And yes, I've been a StarCraft II Coach for over a year. It's a dedicated pursuit of mine, since I started playing this game I've had a passion for helping players improve. I've produced upwards of twenty strategy guides, produced tutorial videos, performed live lectures at the University of Waterloo, and I've NEVER had a negative review from a student. Coaching is an enormous investment of my time and energy, I could not justify doing it without earning an income - I'm a University student with bills to pay myself. But that's not enough of a reason to claim it's "only about making money." I've been a paid English/Writing tutor for nearly seven years! Believe me when I say I could find other work, but I coach StarCraft instead because it's rewarding, I love the game, and I respect the community.
In short, I'd rather "clutter up TL with these guides" that I believe help add variety to people's experience of SC2 than not produce any content at all. I strongly believe in the quality of my content and coaching.
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If what you say about the ban is true, and it was just your friend at Waterloo who had a question, then fine, although from what (admittedly little) I understand about IP addresses I wonder how your friend wound up with an identical IP without making the post from your computer; and if he made the post from your computer then why didn't he just ask you himself? Unless you just wanted your thread bump. Maybe someone else can enlighten me on how Tangs friend at university wound up with an identical IP?
Reguarding writing people off as elitist haters, thats sloppy writing on my part.I misattributed a post to you when it was made by someone else. Even though I believe that if I go through the hundreds of pages of posts in your guides I would find something, we could just read it to imply that that people who disagree with you are shouted down as such. Because that is definitely true. Don't believe me? Just scroll up a few posts.
It's very convenient that you only gave examples of 4 guides, when you say that you have made many more; I have, in fact, read all your guides on TL (because I think it's funny watching you try and save face in front of noobs when the real-deals call you out), and I know for a fact that my argument 1) reguarding calling builds what they are was something you got absolutely hammered on. And don't try to tell me you've fixed it because now you come out with another guide that amounts to a blind all-in, that relies on your opponant being bad, and you don't call it as such. Only an ovie scout, and not until 4 minutes in? Supported by replays that are almost a year old? Anyone who knows anything about the game isn't going to support their guide with replays from different patches. Even if none of the units involved have been patched, the patches effect the meta game at the very least. Why do you ignore this?
This is my real problem with you: you give bad advice and promote yourself so that you can make money, when TL is filled with people who give better advice and charge NOTHING for it. You make money off this site and in return you mislead newer players. Even though the noobs thank you when they manage to roll some other noob, this alone is not enough to justify your guides because by definition these players are ignorant; they lack the ability to understand what is and isn't really helpful to them in terms of the game. Whenever you convince one of them of something wrong, you hurt their progress.
You only think you are doing something helpful.
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Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously...
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On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously...
He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously?
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On April 16 2012 03:03 rikter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously... He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously?
He puts up tons of free guides and tutorials. Just because you personally don't like them, what gives you the right to hate on him? What have you ever done for the community?
If people dislikes Tangs guides and methods, they should just stay away from his threads, for the benefit everyone.
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On April 16 2012 03:53 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 03:03 rikter wrote:On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously... He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously? He puts up tons of free guides and tutorials. Just because you personally don't like them, what gives you the right to hate on him? What have you ever done for the community? If people dislikes Tangs guides and methods, they should just stay away from his threads, for the benefit everyone.
This isn't about the guides in and of themselves. It's about these guides being nothing more than a vehicle for free add space. This is the only thread of his in which I will be making a post of this nature, and if he wasn't trying to round up coaching clients, and wouldn't have gone even this far. At least now, maybe someone who is considering giving this guy money may read this and realize, "Hey, he makes a good point. I can get all the services Tang is selling completely for free on TL already, and from arguably better sources."
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On April 16 2012 04:13 rikter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 03:53 Tobberoth wrote:On April 16 2012 03:03 rikter wrote:On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously... He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously? He puts up tons of free guides and tutorials. Just because you personally don't like them, what gives you the right to hate on him? What have you ever done for the community? If people dislikes Tangs guides and methods, they should just stay away from his threads, for the benefit everyone. This isn't about the guides in and of themselves. It's about these guides being nothing more than a vehicle for free add space. This is the only thread of his in which I will be making a post of this nature, and if he wasn't trying to round up coaching clients, and wouldn't have gone even this far. At least now, maybe someone who is considering giving this guy money may read this and realize, "Hey, he makes a good point. I can get all the services Tang is selling completely for free on TL already, and from arguably better sources."
Believe me when I say you will not be the first, nor the last, to undertake a personal quest to ruin me!
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On April 16 2012 03:03 rikter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously... He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously?
How do you know they're uninformed? Perhaps they did research and decided they enjoyed his style of play most. You definitely seem to be taking this whole "He's an evil man and he's taking advantage of the poor innocent sheep that are sc2 noobs who could never possibly know better" thing way too far. If his students don't complain after the services have been rendered then clearly they are happy with their investment. Who cares if they're just learning to all-in? He is causing no harm to these people in anyway. He's teaching them a specific style that you happen to disagree with...and here's the big thing that you need to focus on it's just a game. It can be played anyway people feel like.
Now, that being said if his customers were coming back saying they didn't get what they payed for then that is a totally different situation where Tang would be at fault. But so far your entire argument hinges on the fact that Tang posts guides that you don't like because they're all-in and he uses his freely available material on this free site to promote his coaching. Maybe you should go complain to all the other coaches who happen to post on here as well.
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Dont worry, tang. Haters gonna hate. Nothing you can do about that. What you can do something about is just keep on making good guides with good content like you have been lately. Keep up the good work.
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On April 16 2012 04:13 rikter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 03:53 Tobberoth wrote:On April 16 2012 03:03 rikter wrote:On April 16 2012 02:31 CP` wrote:
Someone sure is taking the internet a little too seriously... He is using this free resource to to take advantage of the less informed in order to make money. What does the internet have to do with anything? Unless nothing on the internet is to be taken seriously? He puts up tons of free guides and tutorials. Just because you personally don't like them, what gives you the right to hate on him? What have you ever done for the community? If people dislikes Tangs guides and methods, they should just stay away from his threads, for the benefit everyone. This isn't about the guides in and of themselves. It's about these guides being nothing more than a vehicle for free add space. This is the only thread of his in which I will be making a post of this nature, and if he wasn't trying to round up coaching clients, and wouldn't have gone even this far. At least now, maybe someone who is considering giving this guy money may read this and realize, "Hey, he makes a good point. I can get all the services Tang is selling completely for free on TL already, and from arguably better sources."
While you don't understand why Tang self-promotes himself so openly, I'm finding it hard to understand why you would go out of your way to attack him like this. If someone likes his guide and pays him for coaching, that's their decision.
There's nothing wrong with promoting what you believe to be the better option (whether it be you think other guides are better, or he should promote himself differently, etc), but bashing one specific individual is just pathetic.
It's like if my friend was about to buy a new laptop, I would tell him how bad Macs are in comparison to PC in terms of how well they would suit his needs. I sure as hell wouldn't go out to the streets and tell random strangers: "Apple products are terrible! They're so slow, overpriced, you can't customize them, and I hate the way their OS works! I hope you think twice before buying an Apple product stranger."
p.s. don't talk about macs/pcs I was just using it as an example, I don't actually share the believes I inferred above.
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EPT
