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I am 1k masters NA.
I am working on transitioning out of this build into a ling based mid game. So far it seems that I need to skip the first roach attack in favor of a 1/1 + macro hatch roach ling attack. Otherwise, my upgrades are too late and I can die to 1/1 roaches.
Putting a overlord over their 3rd is pretty crucial -- you can't let them get ahead in economy.
I like to rally my 24th drone egg to my nat for a spine. I have 100 mins floating at the time my hatch finishes anyways, and having a spine in place makes you much safer against a variety of things. Mainly, it helps against a ling counterattack when your first ling push fails.
Against hatch first, I think it is better to do a 33/36 attack and then rally 3 drones eggs to gas while you attack. This should hit just as banes are morphing. Too many times I have been hard countered by my opponent blindly going hatch first, 6 drones and, a spine and then switching to mass lings.
It eventually leads to a stephano-ish ling infestor spine style and from there I get ultras and speed banes.
Do you have any experience with this transition Tang? I am still working on it pretty heavily and there are still a lot of things I need to find out.
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Thanks tang, this build its working great, love punishing greedy zergs, although it is much more fun when I can get the transitions going.
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Turns out hes in my league! makes it better
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 31 2012 05:27 DeltruS wrote:
I am 1k masters NA.
I am working on transitioning out of this build into a ling based mid game. So far it seems that I need to skip the first roach attack in favor of a 1/1 + macro hatch roach ling attack. Otherwise, my upgrades are too late and I can die to 1/1 roaches.
Putting a overlord over their 3rd is pretty crucial -- you can't let them get ahead in economy.
I like to rally my 24th drone egg to my nat for a spine. I have 100 mins floating at the time my hatch finishes anyways, and having a spine in place makes you much safer against a variety of things. Mainly, it helps against a ling counterattack when your first ling push fails.
Against hatch first, I think it is better to do a 33/36 attack and then rally 3 drones eggs to gas while you attack. This should hit just as banes are morphing. Too many times I have been hard countered by my opponent blindly going hatch first, 6 drones and, a spine and then switching to mass lings.
It eventually leads to a stephano-ish ling infestor spine style and from there I get ultras and speed banes.
Do you have any experience with this transition Tang? I am still working on it pretty heavily and there are still a lot of things I need to find out.
I occasionally get a macro hatch after my first attack, but if I want to transition into macro my usual option is to get the 2 evo chambers and use 1-2 spines to defend with lings (Obviously lots of ling scouting).
Rallying the 24th drone egg to natural and building a spine is fine, though if you're making that many lings you can definitely do it a bit later.
I've tried to make purely upgraded ling/infestor work, but I've had more success with roach or muta transitioning. If you can make it work with just lings, let me know! lol
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Hey Tang,
i see no possible way to hold a 14/14 ling/bling allin with this opener, i tried 3 times. But i really want to :D
at one moment:
- i got 6 lings one queen and a building spine
- opponent has 10 lings and earlier ling speed
and this small and neat window where he can crush you, before additional lings come out.
replay --> http://drop.sc/154469
i saw that you say to build a additional spine in the main, but i dont see where this helps... perhaps an earlier spine pre building in the main or something like that?
Cheers and thx
Michael
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On April 06 2012 05:35 enykie wrote:Hey Tang, i see no possible way to hold a 14/14 ling/bling allin with this opener, i tried 3 times. But i really want to :D at one moment: - i got 6 lings one queen and a building spine - opponent has 10 lings and earlier ling speed and this small and neat window where he can crush you, before additional lings come out. replay --> http://drop.sc/154469i saw that you say to build a additional spine in the main, but i dont see where this helps... perhaps an earlier spine pre building in the main or something like that? Cheers and thx Michael
hey michael, I build a spine on 23 (after 2nd queen and before overlord) and move it down to the expansion immediately. I also start a 3rd queen at my expansion and move my main queen down there. Having 2 queens on the ramp (a 3rd one building) with a spine is a pretty nice defense, and considering you're massing zerglings anyway you should hold your expansion or counterattack if the opportunity arises.
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This build probably dies very easily to a 14/14 baneling play.
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On April 10 2012 08:04 Zheryn wrote:
This build probably dies very easily to a 14/14 baneling play.
It relies on a fast response, because baneling busts can be very deadly. At 23 supply, your first overlord should be at your opponent's expansion. If you see lings coming out and no expansion by 4min, you can safely assume a ling/bane all-in. If you build a spine at the edge of your main creep, it'll finish in time to move down and defend your expansion. You should also inject your main queen and move it down to the expansion and start another queen (3rd queen) at your natural. Wall the ramp with 2 queens and a spine there. Use your lings to micro and pick off banelings or counterattack. 14/14 all-ins are VERY vulnerable to ling counter attacks, so long as you're smart about moving up ramps (sometimes smarter players hide banelings in their mineral line or above their ramp)
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On April 10 2012 08:04 Zheryn wrote:
This build probably dies very easily to a 14/14 baneling play.
Here is a replay that may help:
http://drop.sc/158050
(Opponent goes for Ling/Baneling all-in)
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Hey Tang,
How do you feel about this build on Daybreak? With the super long rush distance do you think a 15 hatch could be better, but still go for the 42 ling attack? Or maybe don't commit to the first attack since reinforcements will take longer to get there?
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Thanks for this build, Tang! Even if I don't always end up doing the ling attack (sometimes just using the lings to harass and keep him more contained in his base), I always open now in my ZvZ's using this build.
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I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer.
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We live in a world where everyone is trying to get ahead so its not suprising.
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No, that account has been unbanned - it was originally banned (About 8 months ago) because a friend and I matched IPs while on the University campus. I've never had another account other than this one for Team Liquid.
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On April 15 2012 03:20 Universum wrote:
I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer.
Don't flatter yourself, lol, that reddit thread has been around since season 2 and is proven to be a joke taken out of context. Do a bit of research on the poster of that screenshot before jumping to conclusions.
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On April 14 2012 02:28 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
Hey Tang,
How do you feel about this build on Daybreak? With the super long rush distance do you think a 15 hatch could be better, but still go for the 42 ling attack? Or maybe don't commit to the first attack since reinforcements will take longer to get there?
Daybreak is a large map, but speedlings are so fast that the difference isn't that significant. I do this build on every map.
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On April 15 2012 04:08 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 03:20 Universum wrote:
I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer. Don't flatter yourself, lol, that reddit thread has been around since season 2 and is proven to be a joke taken out of context. Do a bit of research on the poster of that screenshot before jumping to conclusions.
I am willing to believe this. Source of proof?
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I don't care at all about the current "Tang hurr durr this that durr" thing going on in this thread, but someone mentioned 14/14 baneling play.
I've found the best way to stop baneling play is to stop them from morphing in. I often play against 14/14 banelings, but have never had the blings successfully finish morphing. I've had much more problems with a 9-10 pool baneling play though. Generally if I see more than 4 lings leave his base and not show up at my front door, I'll move out with slow lings and try to find where they're hiding. (Usually right out of vision)
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On April 15 2012 04:28 TheMooseHeed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 04:08 TangSC wrote:On April 15 2012 03:20 Universum wrote:
I guess I somewhat killed the thread but uncovering the truth about It's writer. Don't flatter yourself, lol, that reddit thread has been around since season 2 and is proven to be a joke taken out of context. Do a bit of research on the poster of that screenshot before jumping to conclusions. I am willing to believe this. Source of proof?
The poster's history: http://www.reddit.com/user/llKENZYll
Erroneous claims against other members of the community: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/npitx/tt1_maphacks_just_like_in_brood_war/
Not to mention, like I said, it's simply a joke taken out of context, which is why they posted the screenshot and not the replay. I can say with 100% sincerity that I would never pay someone to leave a game, nor would I go as low as to create an account to bump my threads. I love SC2 and the community, my biggest failures were my first few guides on TL which were promotion oriented instead of content oriented. Live and learn! I'm now firmly dedicated to producing the absolute best guides I can.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/786UG.png)
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