EPT[G] Rushing Relentlessly: A Guide to Zerg vs Zerg - Page 14
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
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di3alot
172 Posts
before ret talked him that out because it loses to hatch first>pure zergling and stephano just banling all in it with nor problem but he also got a lot of wins vs rnd. zergs on the ladder with his first zeglings because they were bad^^ Edit:i need to find a rply of sheth im sure thats the same opening but he did a different transition out of this cause he is awesome. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:44 Stiluz wrote: Not sure why you're getting the hate TangSC, but this guide is really cool. I'm looking forward to ZvZ on the ladder now, thanks to this! :D TeamLiquid users treat me like a god compared to Reddit lol! I actually think criticism is a necessary part of writing, sometimes the people who hate me the post give me the best tips to improve my content. | ||
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unarcher
France4 Posts
I am actually using this build in every zvz and my win rate is increasing fast in the matchup. Really interesting to use this build as it need to micro a lot and to be really aware of injects We can't call it an all in, as using so much ressources on rushing show our opponent that trying to drone may be lethal. Really a great build, my favourite right now before Destiny unbeatable build  | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
So I did this build I believe my 23 overlord was slightly slower like 5 seconds but the rest had proper execution my opponent did a weird 13 gas 12 pool 22 hatch mass speedling push. I got overrun cause his timing hit earlier. Is this a build order loss? | ||
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theorybiscuit
Canada117 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 01 2012 19:58 Bojas wrote: http://drop.sc/124183 So I did this build I believe my 23 overlord was slightly slower like 5 seconds but the rest had proper execution my opponent did a weird 13 gas 12 pool 22 hatch mass speedling push. I got overrun cause his timing hit earlier. Is this a build order loss? Anytime they do a similar build but with earlier speed and more lings, you just have to defend back with your queen. You should be able to hold that pressure (though it does require good micro). I have played against the style a few time but I never save the replay  sorry, but it's definitely not a build order loss just requires you to play defensive with your slow lings and queen. | ||
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Amestir
Netherlands2126 Posts
Do you think that as a gold player I got the skill to pull off this build? | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 02 2012 03:49 Amestir wrote: So I'm a gold player close to getting to plat. Atm I do a weird 1 base +1 speedling build, I feel that the build just doens't work enough against better players. Do you think that as a gold player I got the skill to pull off this build? I think it would be a much better option than a 1base speedling style, and also better for improving your mechanics. | ||
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Vega62a
946 Posts
Edit: Leaving for legacy, but I played drunkenly and incorrectly and posted in a similar state. I'll definitely cancel the hatch, build 1-2 spines, and fight with workers next 6pool. | ||
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:21 Vega62a wrote: Straight up build order loss vs 6 pool with spine on 2 player map I've beaten 6 pool many times. You just cancel your expo, take guys off gas, make a spine, 6 lings and a queen. You have to hold him off with your ~16 workers, but that isn't super hard. If you think you lost while still doing those things, please post the replay because I'd love to see the full capabilities of a good 6 pool vs this build. (650 masters atm) | ||
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
On March 07 2012 15:17 Pusekatten wrote: Im not able to watch the replays now, but I dont see how a speedling only build will win over a speedling/baneling build when both players are equaly good. Can someone please fill me inn? None of the banelings hit. This build can prevent a 14/14 from morphing banelings with a superior ling count. Against a 13/13, the other player can morph the banes but often dies to a counterattack while you double queen block. I've won many games just attacking into a defensive bane player with one or no spines. You can spread out your lings and select 4 lings to attack morphing banes while move commanding small groups of lings away a small distance when the enemy banes get close. He is using his queens to defend and can't inject. End result: you overrun him. Of course, situations do arise when you lose. The important thing is that there is always something you could have done to win. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:21 Vega62a wrote: Straight up build order loss vs 6 pool with spine on 2 player map It's the same as any 14/14 similar opening, it's more the micro/decision making than it is the build. You need to cancel the expansion and build 1-2 spines in your mineral line, using your drones and then your lings to defend. On March 07 2012 15:17 Pusekatten wrote: Im not able to watch the replays now, but I dont see how a speedling only build will win over a speedling/baneling build when both players are equaly good. Can someone please fill me inn? It depends what build they do, but you will always have the superior ling count, which means you can engage in ling vs ling battles all day and just pull away when banes get close. If he's somehow able to morph banes very close to your base, then you can counterattack. For one-base baneling, you need a spine and queens at your expansion (Again, you could just counterattack). A baneling can kill 12 lings or it can kill 1 ling, the better your micro/multitasking is the more banes you can pick off with minimal losses. | ||
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
also i take the GM replays with a grain of salt (especially since they are so old). just because u beat a particular top player once or twice doesnt mean a build is good. i can cannon rush idra and win, but it doesnt mean the build is good. not saying ur build isnt good, but i am saying it feels very all innish. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:49 Ballistixz wrote: at first i thought this build was pretty good on paper, then i seen the replays and it seems so very all innish/coin flippy. in this game there is something called defenders advantage. also i take the GM replays with a grain of salt (especially since they are so old). just because u beat a particular top player once or twice doesnt mean a build is good. i can cannon rush idra and win, but it doesnt mean the build is good. Well defenders advantage is pretty much negated by zergling speed. You can't cannon rush idra and win - you'd have to play him first! My purpose in showing the replays isn't to say "hey I'm better than idra and can beat him in a major tournament." It's to show that I've been using this style to reach a high level on ladder and perform successfully while there. What makes this build less coinflippy/all-in for me is experience - I've used the build so many times that I've developed the multitasking/micro/decision-making skills. I didn't talk much about my macro-transitions because that's not really "rushing relentlessly," you don't have to constantly attack and you don't have to make as many zerglings if your opponent is baneling/spining like crazy. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
Open you minds people and learn to play as much of the game as you can, not just a small part of the game. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On March 09 2012 04:38 Blacklizard wrote: I don't play Zerg, but I love the direction the guide goes in. Aggression is a good thing and can be a very good way to play ZvZ. It's really sad that the masses hear nothing but "play safe, play passive" and think that is the answer to every matchup in every RTS. Open you minds people and learn to play as much of the game as you can, not just a small part of the game. I agree, even as an aggressive player I have an appreciation and understanding of macro styles as well. Macro players don't have to all-in every game, but they should incorporate a few all-ins to practice the skills and executions. | ||
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